Shek

William,

Don't read too much into this, because this line of reasoning has its own dangers when the decisions are made too far up the chain of command where there isn't the requisite information to make a fully informed decision, but what troops want is not always what is best for them. However, with that caveat out in the open, I will state the case.

Soldiers carrying too much sh!t have time and time again found that it slows your mobility and results in their own demise, whether they found themselves too spent to fight effectively after a hard movement, or they drowned when faced with a water obstacle where they couldn't jettison all of their equipment.

So, leaders have an obligation to make sure that soldiers' wants don't run counter to soldiers' interests.

Thus, as before, there isn't a one size fits all policy to the question of whether soldiers should have a secondary weapon that is a pistol, as your examples highlight.

__________________
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

Swift Sword

Sir,

Not heavy per se, but bulky, IMO.

To me, the M9 is well made and reliable but it is a physically large pistol which many I have worked with had to compromise their grip on the weapon to properly pull the trigger for a double action shot, especially in one handed drills.

__________________
Pharoh was pimp but now he is dead. What are you going to do today?

Swift Sword

Morning, Sir,

I never liked the breed for that and some other good reasons and am suprised to see so many of them among the troops given the known vices of the design.

We shall see if the lesson is learned this time around.

William

Swift Sword

I see your point.

Having talked to different people in different places at different times, the burden of kit, some of which may well indeed be superflous, (depending on who is doing the talking) is a common complaint.

Streamlining the kit might be worth looking into but since I do not use the stuff I cannot really comment.

Given the international military proffessional contingent of the WAB, perhaps a thread on this very subject might be in order in the appropriate forum.

If nothing else, it will be intersting to see what members of varying organizations consider to be extraneous yet mandated kit.

That is a reasonable concession to institutional culture; the buck has to stop somewhere.

Captain C

I agree that excess "kit", "Baggage', or whatever can be a detriment to performing your duty. Just ask the survivors at Omaha Beach. I'm sure many will tell you of buddies dropped off too far from shore drowning because they couldn't get their equipment off fast enough, and they didn't even have body armor.

I also agree that it should be a personal choice within limits. Whether there is a need or not would depend on the tactical situation. Mounted on an APC, with all operations contained in the immediate area, maybe you don't need it. Any situation such as LRRP in the field, or manning a checkpoint that may be lacking quick support should find those soldiers with a sidearm. My friend in the motor pool would probably be best served with a handgun and with no issue of an M-16 unless leaving the confiines of the base to pick up what's left of a damaged/destroyed piece of equipment for repairs/salvage of parts.

I have large hands so the M-9 fits great in my hand, a very natural fit. I have to use the Long trigger and Pachmayr wrap around grips on my 1911's to fit my hand nearly so well, and I still have to be aware that I don't insert my finger in too far on the trigger.

I agree that a thread discussing the amount of Kit "necessary" for a given situation might be a good topic.....

BTW: The word from Iraq is send Pop Tarts, S'mores, or Microwave Popcorn and you will be a hero in their eyes!!!!!

__________________
Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
(Been There)

DedoBOT

interestinfg disscussion,excuse me for the bad engl.,I will try to explane how I was armed and weared in BG army 1991-1993-after disintegration Warshaw pact and pre-NATO era
After 5 mounts military school , my positon was infantry detachment comannder,i was 18 years old [BG army was and still conscript army-before 18 mounts,now just 3,everything is a compulsory and no choising what You will do, ofcourse]
Carying:
AK74 + 4 cartriges in cartridge-bag at the belt
small spade or small pickaxe or small ax-at the belt too!
Dart Vaider's gas-mask

anti-chemical complect [rubber mantle+mantle+gloves]-twisted at the neck-very comfortably :D
canteen- again at the belt !!
helmet
the clothnes was from pre-WWII era- no camouflage,no modern fabrics,just simple and rough wool-if you dress your pants without the long drawers below -your legs go dehair-waxing effekt

with two words-hanging up like a christmass tree ,I'm not a fat man,but weared with this equipment i have a big trouble to go inside in the gun-turret of my BMP-3:D .
Thanks to God,my experience is only from practice,not in real combat situation !

Stan187

Dude... ouch.

__________________
In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

bodie

As stated in another thread, standard *issue* was the FN in 7.62 later *modified* to include full auto as the R1.
Standard issue handgun was the STAR 9mm.
In combat you used what you had AND what you could get your hands on.
The AK-47 was to be found on every battlefield and after every contact.
It became my *primary* weapon in the field.
Later the folding stock R1 was the flavour of the month until they down-graded to the 5.56 R4 (Galil)
Could carry lots more ammo but still grabbed the first AK I get get my hands on.
I just loved the 7.62 round.

Just my 23 cents (ZAR) worth.

:-)