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  • #16
    Originally posted by ajaybhutani
    u intend to say that superhornet with such low RCS and AESA still doesnt even compete with Gripen well. ??
    super hornet's RCS is 1 or maybe 0.75. Considering how small Gripen is, the RCS will probably be quite similar. Super hornet is still more of a multirole plane aimed more for strike missions than air combat missions. The current APG-73 is not AESA radar. As you can see here, http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi...0&modele=jdc_1
    It is part of the flight test right now, and it will not be in service until at least next year.

    Even the new APG-79 AESA radar is better at A2G than A2A.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by tphuang
      super hornet's RCS is 1 or maybe 0.75. Considering how small Gripen is, the RCS will probably be quite similar. Super hornet is still more of a multirole plane aimed more for strike missions than air combat missions. The current APG-73 is not AESA radar. As you can see here, http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi...0&modele=jdc_1
      It is part of the flight test right now, and it will not be in service until at least next year.

      Even the new APG-79 AESA radar is better at A2G than A2A.
      Actually the original Hornet has a bigger RCS than the Super Hornet. Neither the F/A-18C/D nore the Gripen incorporate stealth tech, while the Super Hornet has a coating of radar absorbent material in crucial areas and the intakes have been designed with some stealth aerodynamics, but nothing compared to the Raptor. The F/A-18E/F has a smaller RCS than the Gripen.

      Also the APG-79 may be better at A2G than A2A, but it still maximizes the capabilities of the AIM-120, and increases range, tracking, and RWR. This is a concrete increase in A2A capability that the Gripen does not have. The Gripen is only smaller and more manuverable.
      Last edited by Insomniac; 06 Dec 05,, 05:48.

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      • #18
        1) X-wing
        2) TIE Interceptor
        3) A-wing

        -dale

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        • #19
          As I said, APG-79 is not in active service yet, so I'm not going to count it. If you count that, I could then put EJ-200 into Gripen and equip it with the Meteor, which will be the BVRAAM available once it comes into service.

          As for Hornet/Super hornet, hornet's RCS is 5 m^2 and super hornet's RCS is 1 m^2. I don't have the figure, but Gripen is about the same size as Mig-21, which has RCS of 3 m^2. Gripen's RCS has to be less than that.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by dalem
            1) X-wing
            2) TIE Interceptor
            3) A-wing

            -dale
            LOL
            "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Insomniac
              Actually the original Hornet has a bigger RCS than the Super Hornet. Neither the F/A-18C/D nore the Gripen incorporate stealth tech, while the Super Hornet has a coating of radar absorbent material in crucial areas and the intakes have been designed with some stealth aerodynamics, but nothing compared to the Raptor. The F/A-18E/F has a smaller RCS than the Gripen.

              Also the APG-79 may be better at A2G than A2A, but it still maximizes the capabilities of the AIM-120, and increases range, tracking, and RWR. This is a concrete increase in A2A capability that the Gripen does not have. The Gripen is only smaller and more manuverable.
              I think we all agree that there will be not much difference between RCS of Gripen and Super hornet.
              But lets look at the radar aperture. and what is currently fitted in. i dont think Gripen can match superhornet just because super hornet can take in a bigger radar while giving similar rcs values wrt gripen

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              • #22
                when the radar is geared more for strike missions, it's air combat search range is not as high. Actually, having BSed so much about this, I really need some concrete numbers on APG-73 vs PS-05/A.

                Rats, I can't find it after some searching, forget it then.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by tphuang
                  when the radar is geared more for strike missions, it's air combat search range is not as high. Actually, having BSed so much about this, I really need some concrete numbers on APG-73 vs PS-05/A.

                  Rats, I can't find it after some searching, forget it then.
                  i read somewhere that gripen radar range is 100 km for fighter size targets.
                  for latest mig zhuk we know its 120 km.
                  whats the no for APG73??

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by tphuang
                    As I said, APG-79 is not in active service yet, so I'm not going to count it. If you count that, I could then put EJ-200 into Gripen and equip it with the Meteor, which will be the BVRAAM available once it comes into service.
                    Well, there's a bit of a difference there. APG-79 is expected to enter service in Sept '06.

                    IIRC, Meteor won't enter service until 2012 and there aren't even any firm plans to add EJ-200 to Gripen.

                    Originally posted by tphuang
                    As for Hornet/Super hornet, hornet's RCS is 5 m^2 and super hornet's RCS is 1 m^2. I don't have the figure, but Gripen is about the same size as Mig-21, which has RCS of 3 m^2. Gripen's RCS has to be less than that.
                    I've always found it a tad bit silly to throw around RCS numbers, especially for non-VLO aircraft - not that I haven't done so too.

                    The fact of the matter is, the complex shapes and varying external payloads of these aircraft makes a single number basically worthless.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ajaybhutani
                      i read somewhere that gripen radar range is 100 km for fighter size targets.
                      for latest mig zhuk we know its 120 km.
                      whats the no for APG73??
                      What is 'fighter-sized'? 5m^2? 3m^2? 1m^2? Make sure the range quoted is vs. the same-sized target for each.
                      Last edited by B.Smitty; 07 Dec 05,, 16:29.

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                      • #26
                        IMO I think when this poll was created it should have had a timeline put on it. For there are some excellent examples of fighters long before these where even dreamed of albeit not of the jet age ;)
                        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by B.Smitty
                          What is 'fighter-sized'? 5m^2? 3m^2? 1m^2? Make sure the range quoted is vs. the same-sized target for each.
                          5 m ^2 for both these measurements.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ajaybhutani
                            5 m ^2 for both these measurements.
                            Are you sure?

                            If so, that would mean Gripen only has a detection range of 66km against more modern, 1m^2 targets (e.g. Typhoon, Rafale, F/A-18E).

                            That kinda sucks.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by B.Smitty
                              Are you sure?

                              If so, that would mean Gripen only has a detection range of 66km against more modern, 1m^2 targets (e.g. Typhoon, Rafale, F/A-18E).

                              That kinda sucks.
                              I think the Europeans use 5 m^2 targets for their radars (similar to the Russians).

                              I'm not too surprised with Gripen's range, because its nose is tiny.

                              As for APG-79, it can be joining service tomorrow and it will still qualify as not having joined the service yet.

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                              • #30
                                #1 F/A - 22 Raptor
                                #2 EF-2000 Typhoon
                                #3 F-35
                                #4 Rafale
                                #5 F-15K (Better fighter than the C model)
                                #6 F-15C
                                #7 F-14D
                                #8 F/A - 18F Super Hornet
                                #9 SU-35/37 Super Flanker/Terminator
                                #10 JAS-39 Grifen
                                Last edited by StrikeEagle; 08 Dec 05,, 03:48.

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