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The Recruiting Proccess: How to not get screwed

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  • The Recruiting Proccess: How to not get screwed

    Well, I am indeed joining the Army in a few years, and TH suggested to me to be thoroughly learned on this subject of recruiting. So, I'm gonna start early (I have WAY too much time on my hands in Illinois, never enough in Lancaster).
    It would be very helpful if those who have gone trhough the proccess teach me the ins and outs of the recruiting proccess and how I won't get screwed by the recruiters.

  • #2
    I've sent an email to a buddy of mine who was a Navy recruiter for a few years asking for any advice he might have. I'll paste here when he replies.
    The ironic part is that he worked (at least some of his tenure) in the same recruiting office that our young sniperdude will be going to eventually.
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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    • #3
      Originally posted by sniperdude411
      Well, I am indeed joining the Army in a few years, and TH suggested to me to be thoroughly learned on this subject of recruiting. So, I'm gonna start early (I have WAY too much time on my hands in Illinois, never enough in Lancaster).
      It would be very helpful if those who have gone trhough the proccess teach me the ins and outs of the recruiting proccess and how I won't get screwed by the recruiters.

      Well the answer is to get everything in writing. But even then you may get the feeling that you have been screwed. Not sure how the army does their thing but the MC recruits by Occupation field not individual MOS. SO you go to the recruiter and say "I'm pretty good at fiddliling with electronics, How about a job as a Radio Repair Tech."

      Grape the Recruiter says" No problem, We will just sign you up for the 2800 field, Data/Communications Maint. The repair/maint everything from telephones to Satcom and radar equipment.

      You say cool, we put it all on paper, you sign and off you go.

      Where the "I got screwed by my recruiter" comes in.

      1. When we did our initial interview and I asked you about Durg use, involvment with the local police and things like that, You admitted to little or none. Then you got to Parris Island. The DIs at recieving were yelling and telling how "We WILL find out if your lying so fess up now." You suddenly "remember" the 15 times you tried Marry Jane, The 7 times you "dropped Acid" and the 3 times you took a hit of crack at parties just to fit in. Oh yea, There was that underage drinking thing in Fl, when I visited my Aunt. DIs write it all down , you get a waiver and start training. However, because of the incidents you have now admitted to, your chances of getting a security clearance are slim and none. Marine corps decides to keep you in the 2800 field but will only assign you the 2811 MOS. Field telephone repairer. You go home and complain that the recruiter screwed you when in fact you screwed yourself.

      Or they assign you another MOS based on the needs of the Corps and your lack of ability to hold various jobs. ie, you get to be a grunt, truck driver or a cook

      Bottom line disclose everything to your recruiter up front. Recruiters do local records checks so they won't find out about that out of town/out of state police record. However once you are in and they do an investigation for a security clearance, it will be found out. Disclose from the get go. That way you won't be disqualified from your job or be discharged for fraudulent enlistment. As far as drugs go, there no way they can tell if you have ever smoked dope or not. As long as you dont do it just prior to MEPs/boot camp and pop on the piss test.


      2. You go to book camp and either hurt yourself and put on medical hold, are a fat body and sent to pork chop platoon or rock out and get recycled. Any of those will set you back in training and you may miss your school seat. Which means the Corps will find a place to put you. Not so important in a non tech MOS where classes go year round . They will send you to the school house and you will wait for the next class. But for a school that only takes place a few times per year, they will normally assign you a new MOS. Some times they give you a dream sheet and have you "Pick 3" you would like to do and we will try to give you one of them. Other times they just assign you one based on "The needs of the Corps".

      Don't get hurt, dont go to boot camp fat or out of shape and don't rock out.

      3. You make assumptions that arn't exactly what your recruiter said. Ie, He says you will work in the 2800 Occ Field. You look at the MOSs and see one you like, say 2818, Computer/office machine repair tech. In your mind you think thats what you are going to do. That some how becomes "The recruiter said I'd be repairing computers." Well once you get to school you take all the electrical app test, and finish the basic course then , based on your performance and the needs of the Corps, you attend the Test Measurement and Diagnostic Equipment Technician course and recieve the MOS of 2871. You now repair multimeters and other test equipment.

      Did the recruiter lie? No. Do you feel screwed? Yes Answer to this, Remember what can be promised. And remember that you are joining the military, and everything is done based on the "Needs of the service" not on what you want.

      Recruiters can, at times, lock in a duty station for you. They cannot promise how long you will be there though. Or what unit you will be assigned to. And they can only do that if the location you want has the MOS that you will recieve. That theres an opening at the time of your projected graduation. And you pass all your schooling. Easy for some MOSs harder for some of the smaller ones though.

      At times they can also offer you a little cash bonus for joining. But you will do what they want and go where they want for you to recieve that money. If their needs coincide with your wishes then everyone wins.

      I will tell you that, at various times, I have been required/asked to investigate a alligation of recruiters lying. All turned out to be bogus. And the investigation normally entailed nothing more than pulling the Marines contract and going over it with him. More than once I got the "Well I thought....." answer.

      The recruiter will go over the contract with you. And you will initial all promises. Then they will go over the contract with you at the MEPS station before you take the oath and DEP, and you will initial all promises and finally they will go over the contract with you one last time before you take your final oath and ship out for boot camp.
      Last edited by Gun Grape; 04 Dec 05,, 19:29.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Gun Grape
        Well the answer is to get everything in writing.
        I think that's the very best advice anybody can get before they join.
        Originally posted by Gun Grape
        I will tell you that, at various times, I have been required/asked to investigate a alligation of recruiters lying. All turned out to be bogus. And the investigation normally entailed nothing more than pulling the Marines contract and going over it with him. More than once I got the "Well I thought....." answer.
        Sniperdude, re-read the above quote a few times. It's worth it's weight in gold.
        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gun Grape
          Not sure how the army does their thing but the MC recruits by Occupation field not individual MOS.
          I think the Army does it the same way too. I can sign up for the infantry (11x option), but I could be either 11B or 11C.

          sniperdude, the best way not to get screwed is to do lots of research, read a lot at militaryforums.com, and be persistant about what you want.

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          • #6
            And let me back up what The Grape be sayin' 'bout disclosing everything. They can tolerate a little chemical experimentation in your impressionable young days, but they absolutely WILL NOT tolerate a liar. It shows untrustworthiness, and that is always the end of the line for whatever you were hoping for an outcome (security clearance, getting out of trouble, making yourself look good, whatever).

            NEVER lie, and that goes double after you get in. If anybody is asking things you don't want to talk about, don't talk about 'em. I have answered a few questions over the last 20 years with, 'I'd rather not say', and although the cost of answering that way may be steep, that's WAY better than telling lies (it's never one lie, it always ends up being multiple lies, once you start).

            SO, if you absolutely have to tell everything (like on a security questionairre), DO IT, and take what's coming. If you do NOT have to tell everything and you'd rather not, say THAT.

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            • #7
              Wow. Very impressive. I thought it would be a bit more complicated.
              Thank you very much ya'll. If you want to add more, please do - I want to enjoy my 30-year career in the Army.

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              • #8
                All you need to know is at http://usmilitary.about.com .

                Pay, benefits, MOSs, etc, etc.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bluesman
                  And let me back up what The Grape be sayin' 'bout disclosing everything. They can tolerate a little chemical experimentation in your impressionable young days, but they absolutely WILL NOT tolerate a liar. It shows untrustworthiness, and that is always the end of the line for whatever you were hoping for an outcome (security clearance, getting out of trouble, making yourself look good, whatever).

                  NEVER lie, and that goes double after you get in. If anybody is asking things you don't want to talk about, don't talk about 'em. I have answered a few questions over the last 20 years with, 'I'd rather not say', and although the cost of answering that way may be steep, that's WAY better than telling lies (it's never one lie, it always ends up being multiple lies, once you start).

                  SO, if you absolutely have to tell everything (like on a security questionairre), DO IT, and take what's coming. If you do NOT have to tell everything and you'd rather not, say THAT.
                  I've heard the Airforce is more hardcore about past drug use, etc. I don't see how if you just flat out lied about it that they would find out? I guess they would interview your friends, etc. I guess the point is that someone who is willing to try drugs is someone who is less likely to be trusted in a crucial position. But it would seem pretty stupid to be so strict about pot or underage drinking. Nearly everyone has done one, the other, or both.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by barrowaj
                    I've heard the Airforce is more hardcore about past drug use, etc. I don't see how if you just flat out lied about it that they would find out? I guess they would interview your friends, etc. I guess the point is that someone who is willing to try drugs is someone who is less likely to be trusted in a crucial position. But it would seem pretty stupid to be so strict about pot or underage drinking. Nearly everyone has done one, the other, or both.
                    When you have to go for a position that requires a higher clearance and you get your polygraph, you'll lose your clearance, you chances for promotion since you won't be in a competitive job or able to work even in the same field. You'll have wasted all your years of service.

                    If your drug use can be written off as a youthful transgression, then it won't affect you. Heck, one of my old 1SGs, who grew up in SOCOM until he made E-7, got kicked out of the Air Force for showing up to basic with THC in the bloodstream. The Army recruiter was more than happy to take him in and send him off on a Ranger contract. Twenty years later, he's a Command Sergeant Major, and took over that position in the middle of the battle for Fallujah last November.
                    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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                    • #11
                      There ya go. It ain't doing bad things that gets you, most of the time. It's not having integrity.

                      I know I'm not the only leader here who feels this way, but of ALL the transgressions that a troop can make (and you'll see a whole bunch of 'em), cold-bloodedly looking you in the eye and telling a lie is just about the worst. ANY honor or integrity failure is WAY worse in my eyes than being a general knucklehead, or making a mistake. But you've absolutely GOT to have an unblemished honor and integrity and trust. Stupid I can work with; sneaky I can't.

                      Be honest. If you can't be honest, be quiet. If you can't be quiet, be a civilian.

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                      • #12
                        Polygraphs are easy to beat. :)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bluesman
                          There ya go. It ain't doing bad things that gets you, most of the time. It's not having integrity.

                          I know I'm not the only leader here who feels this way, but of ALL the transgressions that a troop can make (and you'll see a whole bunch of 'em), cold-bloodedly looking you in the eye and telling a lie is just about the worst. ANY honor or integrity failure is WAY worse in my eyes than being a general knucklehead, or making a mistake. But you've absolutely GOT to have an unblemished honor and integrity and trust. Stupid I can work with; sneaky I can't.

                          Be honest. If you can't be honest, be quiet. If you can't be quiet, be a civilian.
                          This reminds me of one of my less than stellar E-5s. Brigade policy was that you had to wear your kevlar or CVC whenever you were on top of the Stryker pulling maintenance/loading/unloading/etc. Well, in Kuwait before heading north into Iraq, I busted him on top of his Stryker without a helmet, and this was within 24 hours of having disseminated that those who got caught without a helmet would receive an article 15. Now, he was already in hot water with his platoon for failing to properly maintain his vehicle, and so we went with a company grade article 15 instead of just a summarized. Now, it took two months to get the paperwork processed for the reading and to get this NCO to trial defense thanks to combat operations that slowed things down, and when we did the reading, he had the nerve to tell me to my face that no one ever caught him without his helmet on.

                          I can't remember what I did, but it was the only time that I lost my cool during a reading, since that's your 1SG's job. I couldn't believe it. Now, to be fair to the NCO, he wasn't that bright, so whether he just forget that it was me who busted him or just plain forgot, I'll never know.
                          "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by M21Sniper
                            Polygraphs are easy to beat. :)
                            Yeah, but what happens once they fix it?
                            "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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                            • #15
                              Sometimes for the good of the mission or unit it is neccesary to lie.

                              However, what makes one a man is accepting the eventual consequences.

                              I've lied for my troops more than once, believe me.

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