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Thread: Will SARS make a come back?

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    If this happened in another country, the orderlies would be called and that would be the end of it.
    My sister works in a medical profession. She considers that kind of behaviour par for the course from in particular older men who apparently overwhelmingly like to randomly talk to nurses about their erectile disfunctionality and such.

  2. #302
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    No, it did not.

    I just find it ridiculous that a CM has to be involved in something as trivial as this. How did it get up that high ?

    If this happened in another country, the orderlies would be called and that would be the end of it.
    There have been attacks on healthcare personnel in India, in muslim colonies, from muslims. You think this is a joke? Those workers are there trying to help people irrespective of their religion, in this crisis, without caring for their own safety.

    Which civilized/uncivilized country has their nurses laughing at male perps showing their private parts or walking naked? The CM should invoke NSA, and all those perps should be behind bars after they're infection free. Your suggestion is simply ridiculous.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  3. #303
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    There have been attacks on healthcare personnel in India, in muslim colonies, from muslims. You think this is a joke? Those workers are there trying to help people irrespective of their religion, in this crisis, without caring for their own safety.
    Who said anything about attacks ? i'm talking about exposing here. That's what your article said. The video news report wasn't as specific so i was curious. Exposing one's self to get out of being tested is an unusual tactic. That's what i found surprising.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Which civilized/uncivilized country has their nurses laughing at male perps showing their private parts or walking naked? The CM should invoke NSA, and all those perps should be behind bars after they're infection free. Your suggestion is simply ridiculous.
    I suspect its a lot more common than you think. The exposing part. Laughing takes a certain level of grit that not all women may have.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 04 Apr 20, at 02:36.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Who said anything about attacks ? i'm talking about exposing here. That's what your article said. The video news report wasn't as specific so i was curious. Exposing one's self to get out of being tested is an unusual tactic. That's what i found surprising.

    I suspect its a lot more common than you think. The exposing part. Laughing takes a certain level of grit that not all women may have.
    What do you think exposing in US would get those perps? Yeah, so their ass should be in jail, right?

    Majority of muslims don't want to get tested. This is a FACT. The first Covid-19 patient of Assam had to be arrested and brought to Medical college. Now, why don't they want to get tested? Because of the F blind belief in quack illiterate mullahs. And also because majority of muslims have a herd mentality.

    Don't want to get tested (?), not my problem. Die. But when they pose a risk to the population, it's becomes my problem.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  5. #305
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    What do you think exposing in US would get those perps? Yeah, so their ass should be in jail, right?
    Should they want to press charges perhaps. But i doubt that happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Majority of muslims don't want to get tested. This is a FACT. The first Covid-19 patient of Assam had to be arrested and brought to Medical college. Now, why don't they want to get tested? Because of the F blind belief in quack illiterate mullahs. And also because majority of muslims have a herd mentality.

    Don't want to get tested (?), not my problem. Die. But when they pose a risk to the population, it's becomes my problem.
    Fear!

    You will be taken away. What happens next. Where do you end up. Nobody you know can visit you there. Will you come back alive.

    That and if they're likely asymptomatic they won't understand why they should be tested. They feel perfectly alright.

    They won't be the only ones resisting being tested.

    The Epidemic Control act of 1897 allows the state to do what is necessary.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 04 Apr 20, at 02:55.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Should they want to press charges perhaps. But i doubt that happens.
    Happens more than you think it does.

    Fear!

    You will be taken away. What happens next. Where do you end up. Nobody you know can visit you there. Will you come back alive.

    That and if they're likely asymptomatic they won't understand why they should be tested. They feel perfectly alright.

    They won't be the only ones resisting being tested.

    The Epidemic Control act of 1897 allows the state to do what is necessary.
    So, what should be done? Send a muslim to herd those muslims into a hospital to get tested? I got hyper because those asshol*s are trying to infect the whole F population. I guess it's better, if an educated muslim is sent to make those uneducated bunch understand the severity and get tested. And we need to get rid of those illiterate mullahs. All muslim organizations should have an educated mullah appointed by the Government. No ifs or buts.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  7. #307
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Happens more than you think it does.
    Well it's an interesting ethical question isn't it.

    Does a person that is in hospital get charged with something like this.

    The hospital would just tell them they could not help them any more and they should find another place to get treated.

    If one follows the do no harm principle.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    So, what should be done? Send a muslim to herd those muslims into a hospital to get tested? I got hyper because those asshol*s are trying to infect the whole F population. I guess it's better, if an educated muslim is sent to make those uneducated bunch understand the severity and get tested. And we need to get rid of those illiterate mullahs. All muslim organizations should have an educated mullah appointed by the Government. No ifs or buts.
    Educated isn't enough. It has to be some one they trust.

    This is why onboarding religious leaders is important but i guess this is easier said than done.

    Muslim setup is decentralised and autonomous.

    Just because some one higher up declares such does not follow the lower downs always follow.

    They won't infect the whole population, they will end up turning their area into a cluster that will then get quarantined.

    They will be a PITA after that. Politics will get involved. We have to prevent this from happening some how.

    And the way to do that is to get them to cooperate rather than antagonise.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 04 Apr 20, at 03:38.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Well it's an interesting ethical question isn't it.

    Does a person that is in hospital get charged with something like this.

    The hospital would just tell them they could not help them any more and they should find another place to get treated.

    If one follows the do no harm principle.

    Educated isn't enough. It has to be some one they trust.

    This is why onboarding religious leaders is important but i guess this is easier said than done.

    Muslim setup is decentralised and autonomous.

    Just because some one higher up declares such does not follow the lower downs always follow.

    They won't infect the whole population, they will end up turning their area into a cluster that will then get quarantined.

    They will be a PITA after that. Politics will get involved. We have to prevent this from happening some how.

    And the way to do that is to get them to cooperate rather than antagonise.
    It's not that easy. Crisis can't wait for mediators they trust, to assess the situation and then act, given the lack of precious time in saving lives.

    Why do you say they won't infect the whole population? All muslim business run because of hindu customers, be it a garage, a food stall or whatever. They would infect some, then those would infect some more, and the chain goes on.

    Government has already asked them to come out and get tested. If not, then riot police should be called in. If they fear for whatever reasons you mentioned, only they are to be blamed. Genuine muslim citizens need not fear. And why don't they go to government schools which is cheaper to get an education rather then send their wards to madrassas run by quacks, and remain illiterate? Learning Arabic will get them food? I don't know (can't write) my mother-tongue, I know English, and I have put up some of the best foods on my table that money can buy according to my payscale.

    Hindu set-up is more decentralised and autonomous than muslims. Sorry, but your arguments seem more like excuses.
    Last edited by Oracle; 04 Apr 20, at 04:45.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  9. #309
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    Cops attacked for objecting to mosque crowds in UP towns

    Seal them all inside the mosque. Let them remain with Allah and be liberated.

    UP, MP invoke NSA for attacks, harassment of health workers

    About damn time.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  10. #310
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    Another new Covid-19 case in Assam, total rises to 25

    Assam: Sarusajai gets first batch of coronavirus suspects

    Nice. Very nice.

    Six Northeast states seal borders with Assam

    Adding insult to injury.

    Coronavirus in Tamil Nadu: Tablighi Jamaat member dies in Villupuram hospital

    Today morning, an ASHA worker (lady) came to our house, asking if anybody recently came from outside Assam. Discussing corona with her, she told me that a girl who also came from Delhi, Nizamuddin meet, didn't notify the authorities. They got to know of her from the flight manifest. She was picked up after a quarrel, and the girl (must be 20-22 and pretty) was also fighting with docs at the medical college, saying she is fit and she doesn't have to worry about anything. This is the newer generation of muslims, educated and islamic dumb.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  11. #311
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    France has now overtaken China in official case numbers due to bowing to international pressure and no longer fudging their numbers downwards.

    Numbers in France:

    - Tested : 426,430
    - Positive cases : 82,165
    - Hospitalized : 27,432
    - In intensive care : 6,662
    - Deaths : 6,507

    Since April 1st France includes deaths and cases in nursing homes instead of as previously only hospitals. This affects 17,827 cases and 1,416 deaths (about +30%) that were previously not included in French numbers.

    The ratios between numbers continue to hold onto established standards (e.g. 1:1 ICU/death, 4:1 hospitalization/ICU, 5:1 SARI suspect/Covid-positive), other than now one ratio: That between positive cases and hospitalizations - which should be 5:1 instead of 3:1.

  13. #313
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Looking at WHO's recent history it turns out this problem of not alerting in time has happened before as well. Ebola. Guardian says from 2015

    Let's take China out of the picture and see whether the result is any different with other countries. African ones in this case.

    Whether there are any recurring patterns in the way C19 & Ebola were handled by WHO

    Ebola is all but over, but the postmortem is just getting started | Guardian | Sept 30 2015

    Thousands died in west Africa, but the biggest victim could be the ineffectual World Health Organisation, which acted far too slowly to contain the outbreak


    Sound familiar ?

    A year after the peak of the Ebola epidemic, which killed more than 11,300 people and threw the US and Europe into a panic, it is the global health system that is under scrutiny. In particular, the World Health Organisation (WHO) is in the dock for failing to act soon enough. Big questions are being asked about its competence and its future.
    Well then

    But what happened in Sierra Leone and the other small and impoverished west African states of Guinea and Liberia that together bore the brunt of Ebola, has shown up the WHO’s inadequacies – its grindingly slow bureaucracy and its deference to political leaders even in the face of an epidemic that knows no national borders.
    Been there

    The WHO has a three-tier structure. Each country representative reports to a regional office. Above that is Chan in Geneva. But the Afro director is directly elected by Africa’s ministers of health, who partly fund the office, and is therefore dependent on them.

    The local WHO officials quickly became part of the problem. Margaret Chan, the organisation’s director general, has always maintained that the WHO is a technical body there to give help and advice when asked.

    But representatives in Sierra Leone and the other affected countries did not feel it was their job to tell ministers of health what to do. Quite the reverse. People who attended meetings on the Ebola threat said the WHO staff always agreed with the minister that it was a local difficulty. Ebola had been contained elsewhere and would be in Sierra Leone.

    “What should be WHO’s strongest regional office because of the enormity of the health challenges is actually the weakest technically, and full of political appointees,” said Peter Piot, the head of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and one of the discovers of the Ebola virus in 1976.
    So the WHO reps on the ground are accommodating to the affected countries concerns. Dangerously so.

    What many cannot understand is how anyone at the WHO could ever have thought Sierra Leone, bottom of the world poverty league table and still recovering from a civil war, was capable of controlling Ebola.

    But some in Geneva were more concerned about the potential devastation to west African economies that declaring an international emergency would cause – which did indeed prove the case. On 10 June, Sylvie Briand, the head of the pandemic and epidemic diseases department, her boss, Keiji Fukuda, and others sent a memo to Chan, noting that cases might soon occur in Mali, Ivory Coast and Guinea-Bissau. But they went on to say that even convening an emergency committee to discuss the issue “could be seen as a hostile act”.
    Here comes the next problem, to get together and talk about one country that has a "local difficulty" can be perceived as a hostile act. Because in effect you are telling the world to boycott that country. The direct result is the economy of the concerned country will collapse. If you say it is "under control" then other countries will not seal their borders with the country having the problem.

    There is strong disincentive for any country experiencing an outbreak to report it and they will seek to delay until no longer possible.

    MSF’s international president, Joanne Liu, met Chan in July when, she said, “we were really getting upset”.

    Liu said she told Chan: “You are the only person I know who has the legitimate authority to call it. I said you need to step up to the plate.” But Chan said she did not believe it was out of control. Liu said: “I said to her you should get on a plane and go. She did. I think it had not sunk in until it was right in her face.”
    MSF president urging the WHO DG to say something. She does so the next month. What happens ?

    On 8 August, with the three countries imploding, Chan finally made the declaration. That same month, Jacob Mufunda, the WHO country representative in Sierra Leone, was moved – and is now the country representative in Zambia. Kargbo was sacked from the ministry of health. The WHO representatives in Guinea and Liberia have also been moved, while at the Afro regional office, the term of the director Luis Sambo has ended.
    WHO reps of the countries concerned are replaced. But the point is the decalaration can only be made when it becomes politically impossible to hide by the concerned countries. Meaning if the disease is infectious it will spread far and wide.

    The role of the WHO for promoting and maintaining global health security isn't adequately defined in its core functions. It needs to be more explicit. There is recognition that WHO's decentralised structure has significant costs & inefficiencies but nobody wants to change the current model. Because presumably the bureaucrats working for WHO risk losing their jobs or their future becomes unpredictable. This lot cannot be relied upon to reform itself. Unless there is exceptional leadership which is never going to happen.

    An independent assessment was commissioned in the wake of the Ebola pandemic by the WHO

    WHO does not have a culture of rapid decision-making and tends to adopt a reactive, rather than a proactive, approach to emergencies.

    In the early stages of the Ebola crisis, messages were sent by experienced staff at headquarters and the Regional Office for Africa, including after deployments in the field, about the seriousness of the crisis. Either these did not reach senior leaders or senior leaders did not recognize their significance.

    WHO does not have an organizational culture that supports open and critical dialogue between senior leaders and staff or that permits risk-taking or critical approaches to decision-making. There seems to have been a hope that the crisis could be managed by good diplomacy rather than by scaling up emergency action.
    So Chan the DG of the time decided to change things but clearly not enough

    Chan, meanwhile, is trying to bring about the revolution needed to ensure the WHO is fit to fight the next pandemic.

    In May, she told the World Health Assembly in Geneva: “I am committed to building an organisation with the culture, systems and resources to lead the response to outbreaks and other health emergencies. ”

    She was creating, she said, “a single new programme for health emergencies, uniting all our outbreak and emergency resources”. It would have benchmarks for what must be done within 24, 48 and 72 hours of an outbreak – rather than over the course of months.
    There have been efforts to bypass the WHO

    The WHO’s inadequate and reluctant response to the Aids epidemic led to the launch in 1996 of UNAIDS, a separate agency under the UN umbrella, led by Piot. It was not the finest hour for the WHO, which still had an HIV department.

    The launch of two major semi-independent campaigning organisations, Roll Back Malaria and Stop TB, were also seen as manoeuvres to bypass the bureaucracy of the WHO, although it has since been praised for working with them.

    The US showed the most disquiet over the WHO’s handling of the outbreak and has already moved to set up an African version of its CDC in Addis Ababa in conjunction with the African Union.

    The WHO is, meanwhile, in danger of being outflanked by other innovative new arrivals on the global health scene. Over 20 years, the number of serious players in global health has grown enormously, from the World Bank to the Gates Foundation, the CDC and many others.
    None of these other outfits has the legitimacy of the WHO to declare health emergencies.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Apr 20, at 01:11.

  14. #314
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Another a few months later in 2015

    Experts criticise WHO delay in sounding alarm over Ebola outbreak | Guardian | Nov 22 2015

    The World Health Organisation should be stripped of its role in declaring disease outbreaks to be an international emergency following the catastrophic failure to warn the world of the dangers of Ebola in west Africa last year, according to an independent panel of experts.

    The report calls for far greater accountability and transparency within global health institutions, including a proposal that the WHO should be required to respond to freedom of information requests.
    They said this back in 2015. Yet nothing changed.

    “The most egregious failure was by WHO in the delay in sounding the alarm,” said Prof Ashish Jha, the director of the Harvard Global Health Institute.

    “People at WHO were aware that there was an Ebola outbreak that was getting out of control by spring … and yet it took until August to declare a public health emergency. The cost of the delay was enormous.”
    Ya

    The WHO should instead have a standing emergency committee to declare that an epidemic poses an international risk, which must be transparent and protected from political pressures, the report says.

    It should have strong technical capacity, a protected budget and clear lines of accountability within the WHO. It would be governed by a separate board to ensure its independence.

    The UN security council should also have a standing committee on global health to ensure high-level political attention to disease outbreaks that recognise no geographical borders, the report says.
    Good idea and would have come in handy with this one : (
    Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Apr 20, at 01:21.

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