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Viewer Discretion Advised: George Bush Sr. in World War II.

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  • #31
    My signature means it is Wonderful and Honourable to die for the Fatherland [country].

    Yet another of my quotes is:

    No one has won a war by dying for his country. He won the war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country,

    Contradictory? Maybe, but I like both, Used for different situations.

    I was also stirred by the dialogue of the Marine Colonel in the film 'A Few Good Men'. I have forgotten the words but I remember the sentiments. Can someone post me the dialogue?

    Thanks in anticipation.
    Last edited by Ray; 01 Nov 03,, 20:33.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    • #32
      excuse me for slipping back on topic.

      What happened to those US Airmen is, of course absolutely inexcusable and unjustifiable in any form of human conflict. It is through retelling of stories such as those of former President Bush's comrades that people can not only realise the true horrors of war, but also the regimes that allow such things to exist.

      Does anyone know if the book or documentary has given any analysis to the war crime charges levelled at George Bush Snr's squadron over their strafing of shipwrecked seamen ?

      Oh and to help us back off topic :-

      Originally posted by M21Sniper

      He flew F-102's, once described to me by a former -102 pilot as "A great aircraft when it wasn't trying to kill you".

      The -102 had an abysmal safety record, and statisticly, it was FAR more dangerous to be a -102 pilot in peacetime than a draftee in Vietnam.

      If that's 'the easy way out', just send my ass to Vietnam...
      Given that the life expectancy of some servicemen in Vietnam was 120 seconds (yes two minutes) upon entering the theare of operations, I dispute that flying a plane around the US, no matter how shoddily built, was statistically more dangerous than seeing active combat.
      at

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Trooth

        Given that the life expectancy of some servicemen in Vietnam was 120 seconds (yes two minutes) upon entering the theare of operations, I dispute that flying a plane around the US, no matter how shoddily built, was statistically more dangerous than seeing active combat.
        Where did you get that figure?
        Your look more lost than a bastard child on fathers day.

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        • #34
          It's BS, it's probley the average life expectancy of a 1st Lt. in combat in Vietnam.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Trooth
            Given that the life expectancy of some servicemen in Vietnam was 120 seconds (yes two minutes) upon entering the theare of operations, I dispute that flying a plane around the US, no matter how shoddily built, was statistically more dangerous than seeing active combat.
            I'm wondering the same exact thing.
            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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            • #36
              I'll freely admit to it being largely vague memory based. But the stats that stuck in my memory because they are so striking were (once firefight commenced):-

              Huey Helicopter gunner 10-15 seconds
              M60 gunner 10 seconds
              Second lieutenant's low order minutes


              Some sources :-
              Guns Up! - Jonnie Clark
              We were soldiers once - Lt Gen Moore
              Vietnam Memories - Roger Wolson

              I forget the exact 120 seconds bit.

              I also remember some statistic regarding days in combat. In WWII a US infantryman would spend something like 1 month in combat over the four years that the US was in the war, whereas in Vietnam it was something like 240 days a year (helicopters you see)

              Interestingly an Aussie infantryman could expect to see 314 combat days in that year.

              I'll admit there are lies, damn lies and then statistics and so on, but whatever way you look at it, being in a shooting war is more dangerous that flying planes at home.
              at

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              • #37
                If that were true, every single soldier that served in Combat in Vietnam should be DEAD.

                Comment


                • #38
                  How do you work that out? Those are averages. Clearly some people survived a lot less and others a lot longer.

                  Remember life expectancy of every kind is obscure. Average life expectancy of 80 years is controlled by the infant mortality rate.
                  at

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Trooth
                    I'll freely admit to it being largely vague memory based. But the stats that stuck in my memory because they are so striking were (once firefight commenced):-

                    Huey Helicopter gunner 10-15 seconds
                    M60 gunner 10 seconds
                    Second lieutenant's low order minutes


                    Some sources :-
                    Guns Up! - Jonnie Clark
                    We were soldiers once - Lt Gen Moore
                    Vietnam Memories - Roger Wolson

                    I forget the exact 120 seconds bit.

                    I also remember some statistic regarding days in combat. In WWII a US infantryman would spend something like 1 month in combat over the four years that the US was in the war, whereas in Vietnam it was something like 240 days a year (helicopters you see)

                    Interestingly an Aussie infantryman could expect to see 314 combat days in that year.

                    I'll admit there are lies, damn lies and then statistics and so on, but whatever way you look at it, being in a shooting war is more dangerous that flying planes at home.
                    Do you mean that the life expectancy of someone who was going to die in battle was 120 seconds?
                    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                    • #40
                      yes, i forget which one it was.

                      The basic premise was that once the solider entered the battle he had a life expectancy of 120 seconds from leaving the chopper.

                      The chooper gunners had the above life expectancy once the lead started flying and so on.
                      at

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                      • #41
                        I might buy that the average American soldier killed in combat in Vietnam died within 120 seconds of entering a combat zone, but not that was the average life expectancy for all soldiers.

                        1.5 million soldiers served in combat in Vietnam, of that number, 47,000 died as a result of hostile action.
                        "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Trooth
                          But the stats that stuck in my memory because they are so striking were (once firefight commenced)
                          Point is :-

                          1) Soldiers saw a lot of shooting in Vietnam (US infantryman saw 24 times more action than in WWII)
                          2) In that action some classes had very short life expectancies

                          This is the counter balance to the quip ragrding how dangerous George W's plane was that he was pootling around the US in at the time.
                          Last edited by Trooth; 04 Dec 03,, 09:25.
                          at

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                          • #43
                            Your numbers are F****ed up trooth. For instance combat medics had a life expectancy of one month in combat. and a Marine 2nd Lt had a life expectancy of two months. those are just two of the differences I came up with in a 10 minute search.
                            Your look more lost than a bastard child on fathers day.

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                            • #44
                              You haven't proved my numbers wrong.

                              You have just found other military roles with different life expectancies. Try and disprove the average life expactancy of a Huey gunner once the lead started to fly. Snipers loved them.

                              What was the life expectancy of the pilots in Dubya's unit?
                              at

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                              • #45
                                are you asking us to start their life expectancy time at the point where things start to go bad?
                                Your look more lost than a bastard child on fathers day.

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