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  • We're winning in Iraq

    Progress Exceeds Prognostication in Iraq Print Mail



    By Karl Zinsmeister
    Posted: Monday, October 20, 2003

    ARTICLES
    Christian Science Monitor
    Publication Date: October 20, 2003

    'This may not be Vietnam, but boy, it sure smells like it," said Sen. Tom Harkin recently. The Iowa Democrat is but one of a host of critics in Washington politics and the media who claim that U.S. troops and administrators are "bogged down" in Iraq.

    Having covered the war as an embedded reporter, having conducted the first national poll of the Iraqi people (in concert with Zogby International), and having remained in close touch with the military men and women who are temporarily the princes running the land of the Tigris and Euphrates, I believe this gloomy view is incomplete and inaccurate.

    Let's start by remembering the traumas that never befell us in Iraq.

    Not only was the war itself vastly less bloody and difficult than some predicted, but its aftermath has also been quieter. We were told by prewar prognosticators to expect a refugee flood, a food crisis, destruction of the oil fields, and public-health disasters. We were warned that Iraq's multifarious ethnic and religious groups would be at one another's throats. Environmental catastrophes, chemical poisonings, and dam breaks were predicted. It was said Turkey might occupy the north, that Israel could strike from the south, that the Arab "street" was likely to resist.

    None of these things happened. Nor have other predicted troubles materialized. When 300,000 mourners gathered for the funeral of assassinated Shiite spiritual leader Bakr al Hakim, they didn't rampage, or call for vengeance against Sunnis, or lash out against the U.S. authorities. They and their leaders showed the political maturity to let the official investigation into the leader's murder proceed.

    Whatever the setbacks, we must remember that much of this war has been a case of the dog that didn't bark.

    That is not to whitewash the fact that painful low-intensity conflict is still smoldering, producing casualties equivalent to the hot-war phase.

    The man I photographed in combat for the cover of my new book about the Iraq war, an 82nd Airborne Ranger named Sean Shields, has been bombed in his Humvee twice in a month. Localized resistance in the Sunni triangle is real. But Sean isn't discouraged: He believes he's doing historic work to stabilize one of the most dangerous spots on our planet. He and other soldiers I hear from believe they're making great progress in setting Iraq on the path of a more normal, decent nation.

    Here are some signs they're right:

    Stores are bustling, traffic is busy, and most services have now exceeded their prewar levels. A new currency went into circulation last week.

    Large cities, home to millions--like Basra, Mosul, and Kirkuk--and vast swaths of countryside in the north and south, are stable, basically peaceful, beginning to bubble economically, and grateful to coalition forces who've set them on a new path.

    More than 170 newspapers are being published in Iraq, and broadcast media proliferate.

    The Iraqi Governing Council has been well received by the country's many factions and ethno-religious groups. Sixty-one percent of Iraqis polled by Gallup in September view the council favorably. And by 50 to 14 percent they say it is doing a better, rather than worse, job than it was two months ago.

    For the first time, localities have their own town councils. A working court system has been set up. And a constitution is being hashed out.

    In addition to the 140,000 U.S. troops providing security, there are about 25,000 soldiers from other countries, and 60,000 Iraqi police and guards on the job--with many thousands more in the training pipeline.

    Nearly all schools and universities are open; hundreds have been rehabbed into their best shape in years by soldiers.

    Iraq's interim economic leaders recently committed the country to a wide-open, investment-friendly market economy. The prosperity and global connectivity this should bring will be the ultimate guarantee of Iraq's modernity and moderation.

    Oil production has passed 1 million barrels per day, and is heading toward 2 million.

    Iraqi public opinion is more moderate than suggested by the anecdotal temperature-takings in press reports. Four entirely different polls have been conducted in Iraq, and their remarkably congruent results show that the majority of Iraqis are optimistic about their future, and believe ousting Saddam Hussein was worth any hardships that have resulted.
    The four-city survey in August by The American Enterprise, a magazine I edit, suggests that the three nightmare scenarios for Iraq--a Baathist revival, an Iran-style theocracy, and a swing toward Al Qaeda--are very unlikely, given current Iraqi views. And contrary to media reports of boiling public resentment, all of these polls show that two-thirds of Iraqis want U.S. troops to stay for at least another year.

    Meanwhile, the pouncing raids that U.S. forces initiated two months ago have hurt the guerrillas. More than 1,000 fighters have been arrested and many others killed. The bounty paid by ex-Baathists to induce attacks on American soldiers has had to be increased from $1,000 to $5,000 to find takers.

    Most critically, the U.S. is now on offense, rather than defense, in the war on terror. With a shock being applied to the seedbeds of Middle Eastern violence, the U.S. homeland has been blessedly quiet for two years.
    My friend Christopher Hitchens --who like me, numerous congressmen, and other recent visitors to Iraq witnessed what he calls "ecstatic displays" toward Americans by grateful Iraqis--characterizes what is taking place in Iraq today as "a social and political revolution."

    That's no overstatement. Maj. Pete Wilhelm, with the 82nd Airborne in Baghdad, recently described how U.S. forces are nurturing the first shoots of democracy in the Fertile Crescent: "We set up a Neighborhood Advisory Council representative of each neighborhood, and they voted on a leader who attends the city advisory council. Early on, the meetings would last four hours, and it would seem as though no progress was being made. The whole concept of a 'vote' came hard and slow. We have gradually transitioned the burden of the agenda into the hands of the representatives, renovated the meeting hall with AC, and pushed the autopilot button. The meetings are down to an hour and a half, and we just keep the ball in play and act as referees. We are making great strides at grass-roots democracy."

    After a recent trip to the country, Mr. Hitchens agrees, saying, "I saw persuasive evidence of the unleashing of real politics in Iraq, and of the highly positive effect of same."

    All of this has been accomplished in less than six months from the fall of Baghdad. Keep in mind that Germany--a much more advanced nation that already had a democratic tradition--didn't hold elections until four years after World War II ended. Gen. Douglas MacArthur progressed less rapidly in Japan.

    Certainly, there remains an enormous amount to fix in Iraq. But there is something unseemly about the impatience of today's pundits, their insistence on instant recovery, and what my colleague Michael Barone calls the media's "zero defect standard."

    U.S. soldiers and administrators are turning a tide of history and culture in the Middle East. If Americans show some patience, they'll gaze upon many heartening transformations in Iraq a few months and years from now.

    Karl Zinsmeister is the editor in chief of The American Enterprise magazine. Mr. Zinsmeister was an embedded reporter in the 82 Airborne Division in Iraq.

    http://www.aei.org/news/newsID.19308...ews_detail.asp

  • #2
    I, too, find the Vietnam comparison to be inaccurate and error prone. However, the picture is far from rosy. The military situation is openned ended and ill defined. In fact, roles that are best defined for police than the military.

    The rotation picture is certainly out of whack. To date, the DoD has yet to defined manpower and TOE requirements which left in field cmdrs to make adhoc and uneven policies.

    CENTCOM has already defined this as an ongoing military operation, indicating further combat is to be expected, and further casualties have to be tolerated. Growth and economic prosperity while at war is a contradiction in terms.

    I also find the War on Terror to be a misguided excuse. If Iraq is to succeed as a nation, then the terrorist foothold in that country is gone, denying the Americans any oppertunity to engage them in Iraq instead of elsewhere. If the Americans want to continue the War on Terror in Iraq, then they cannot allow Iraq to succeed as a nation.

    Comment


    • #3
      I view it as a potential vietnam situation.

      That does not mean it is, by any stretch, just that there are some disturbing paralells to be drawn from it.

      If anything, it would be more accurate to compare it to Chechnya than Vietnam anyway...and even that is a big stretch.

      Comment


      • #4
        Replace Iraq with Afghanistan
        Replace US with the USSR
        Replace foreign terrorists with Pakistani, Chinese, American, Eygtian, Saudi mercenary dogs
        Replace democratic reforms with communist ideals

        The current situation most reflect the same time period in the 79 Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. They too thought they had brought hope and liberation to a tribal down trodden backwards country. They were building schools, roads, power plants, farms, irrigation all to benefit the Afghans. It took them two years to learn that they were wrong and got stuck for a decade.

        I'm not saying that's the way Iraq is heading but the current mood and situation reflects the similar time frame the Soviets enjoyed.

        Comment


        • #5
          Iraq doesn't have the US supplying them advanced weaponry either, and the terrain is far different.

          The Russians went Afghanistan alone, or at the very most, with some Warsaw pact allies. As time progresses it looks more and more likely that there will be more nations involved in peacekeeping in Iraq, Muslim ones would help especially (except for Turkey).

          Were the Afghan people favorable to the government in power at the time the Soviets invaded? The vast majority of Iraqis weren't.

          Attacks on US troops are heavily concentrated in a compact geographical area, the so-called "Sunni triangle". We aren't seeing nearly the level of attacks in Shi'ite or Kurdish areas.

          Many comparisons can be drawn, but I think we should keep in mind that there are many differences as well.
          "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ironman420
            Iraq doesn't have the US supplying them advanced weaponry either, and the terrain is far different.
            American (and Chinese) help didn't arrive until the 2nd year of Regan's term.

            Originally posted by ironman420
            The Russians went Afghanistan alone, or at the very most, with some Warsaw pact allies. As time progresses it looks more and more likely that there will be more nations involved in peacekeeping in Iraq, Muslim ones would help especially (except for Turkey).
            Just as the Americans went in with two allies. Not talking about the future, just how the current situation compares to the same time frame in Soviet-Afghanistan.

            Originally posted by ironman420
            Were the Afghan people favorable to the government in power at the time the Soviets invaded? The vast majority of Iraqis weren't.
            No, they weren't. The Kabul gov't was having trouble keeping the tribes in order. The Soviets replaced the gov't after the invasion.

            Originally posted by ironman420
            Attacks on US troops are heavily concentrated in a compact geographical area, the so-called "Sunni triangle". We aren't seeing nearly the level of attacks in Shi'ite or Kurdish areas.
            Neither did the Soviets near their border nor in Kabul.

            Originally posted by ironman420
            Many comparisons can be drawn, but I think we should keep in mind that there are many differences as well.
            Chinese proverb. "A wise man learns from one's own mistakes. A wiser man learns from someone else's."

            I like the USAF take off better. "You better learn from someone else's mistakes because you'll be fucked long before you make them all by yourself."

            Comment


            • #7
              ts too early to call it Vietnam like. But then if this continues it will be worse. Communists and religious fanatics are nearly the same. They believe in their Cause.

              The situation is worse than Vietnam since the economy is in the dumps and unemploement in the US at records level unlike the time of Vietnam.


              "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

              I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

              HAKUNA MATATA

              Comment


              • #8
                "I like the USAF take off better. "You better learn from someone else's mistakes because you'll be fucked long before you make them all by yourself.""

                LOL, you're full of good ones tonight Colonel!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ray
                  the economy is in the dumps and unemploement in the US at records level unlike the time of Vietnam.
                  That's just Democrat propaganda. The economy is recovering and has been for a year and a half. The unemployment line is nonsense. The unemployment rate is 6%. The Dems talk as thou this is like the Great Depression when 30% where unemployed. I'd like to remind all the socialist that the unemployment rate in France is 11%. So, you solutions will just make matters worst.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I agree about the Vietnam comparision, but on the other hand Soviet casulties dident begin to build up until the mid 1980's, well over 4 years after the invasion began

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yeah, that's the really troubling part.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No, they weren't. The Kabul gov't was having trouble keeping the tribes in order. The Soviets replaced the gov't after the invasion.

                        Brain fart. I don't know why I brought that up. Both didn't like their respective governments.
                        "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Could the reason why Soviet casualities built up due to fatigue of the war meaning low morale and lax discipline leading to many mistakes that normally professional soldiers wouldn't make? I mean it's been 4 years and no end in sight. As a result, morale sagged and mistakes occureed and veterans just washed their hands of it and moved to the Eastern front where pay was better and some sort of resemblance of peace and order.

                          You know it's interesting that it parallels the behavior of US Army after 4 years fighting in Vietnam.

                          I mean if the Afghanistanis were equipped with missiles and all sort of equipments right before the Soviet invasion instead of 4 years late and is battle hardenedr , I think it would have made no difference on the outcome of the invasion. Svoiet would have been able to pull it off albiet with more casualites but not significant to warrant ceasefire or pullout.

                          Why the Soviet failed? I think it was because they failed to go after them in the mountains. They did not adapt to mountain warfare, thus letting the afghanis dictate the discourse of the war. Note that I said course of war, not battle which are two different things. Soviet have dictated the courses of battle, but not war. Soviet reverted to siege mentality.

                          It's amazing that even after all the history of seige warfare, that many people fail to notice that seige warfare only works for defenders if they believe that they are defending their homeland and is willing to put up with any hardships. Tell me one case of seige warfare where one group of people have been besieged in a foreign land for a long time and come out victorious. I don't think you will find a lot of examples.

                          In WW2, Soviet won because they outlasted Germans in the siege warfare even though the Germans had the tactical superiority. Why? Because they were willing to outbleed the enemy during siege.

                          However, if the Soviets had not been involved in siege but on the attack, meaning go after the guerillas in the mountain in a systematic way, the Soviets would have been able to pacify the region.

                          However the USArmy can't use the tactics or there'd be a huge public outcry, although I'd admit I would be outraged at some of the tactics used. Why? Because iraq is not our fight.
                          We got rid of Saddam and the infrastructure to made WMDs. So there is no real need to pacify the area. We can continue to try nation building but as it get to the point of diminishing return, we should get the hell out of there. It's not crucial to our national security interests. Oil can be obtained somewhere else albiet at a higher price but something we can live by and not be addicted to it.

                          The strength of a great nation is the ability to adapt and not be addicted to something such as oil. A great nation will find a way to get around that need or fulfill it in other ways than sacficing its national security interests. Great nations don't allow national security interests be tied to commodities. The day they let that happen is the day that their country cease to be a great nation.

                          I think that's what people in the US are starting to realize. Ordinary and common people can do their part by finding ways to avoid the need to depend on one region to safeguard its national security interests. That means better gas mileage for SUVs(I hate goddamn soccer moms who buy oversized SUVS!!!), cars, better ways to produce power efficiently, conserve power efficiently, or transport power with little loss of power.

                          The day we can achive that is the day we can leave Iraq and leave it to the people who can clean up their own mess or not. If not, then it's not our fault.

                          Iraqi people brought themselves to this. Only they can bring themselves out of their mess that they made.

                          Same thing with Afghanistan. They need to clean up their mess. We went after the bad guys and tried to kill them(We have not accomplished this task yet). The day we do that, we are going to leave.

                          I don't buy this bullshit about how we left them quickly after the Cold War ended. The point is that they created the mess that led to the invasion of Afghanistan. Their greed for money and power led them to this sorry state today. Before they overthrew their king, Afghanistan was considered as one of the most prosperous nation in Central Asia and had better standards of living than Pakistan or India. Now look at them.

                          People often forget that the best way to help their fellow humans is not to pity them or try to correct their mistakes and guide them but to let them fall flat on their faces without taking advantage of them and help them get back on their feet again and push them forward. That's all we can do. Soviets made that mistake in Afghanistan. US made that mistake in Vietnam where they thought they had to save Vietnam from making the mistake of converting to communism. Witness today that Vietnam is realizing that communism doesn't work and is trying to change that. US is making that mistake in Iraq where we are thinking that we have to save Iraq from Saddam. There will be another version of Saddam because they have not realized their mistake and over threw Saddam. They did not conquered their fear of being tortured or maimed or killed to overthrow Saddam. They valued their existence more than the promise of freedom and propserity. In short, they refused to make the sacrifices need to overthrow Saddam and put Iraq back onto the right path. If they refuse to make the sacrifices necessary to make their place free and secure from tyranny, how can we help them?

                          A wise proverb,"The Lord only help the people that help themselves"

                          Iraqi people complained that they couldn't go anywhere progressively because of Saddam. Ok we went in and got rid of Saddam. Now Iraqi people are complaining that they couldn't go anywhere because we didn't fix their infrastructure. OK we are fixing the infrastructure. Now what if the Iraqi people(I think it will happen) complain that we were running things the wrong way and for selfish reasons and did not allow the Iraqi people to govern themselves? Ok we got out of here. Then what if the Iraqi people complain that we left them too early and did not allow maturity of democracy? You can see where I am going.

                          Have you even been in a stage where you are just being lazy or wallowing or blaming your mistakes on somebody else or making excuses and the person sitting next or listening to you says "Shut up and quit whining" or kick your butt and tell you to get your ass up and fix the problems instead of playing the blame game? I know. I certainly had several of these moments. You know what? Those moments are memorable and those people that did it were actually the greatest of friends to me.

                          I think the Iraqi people need a dose of objectivism into their culture. Same thing for Afghanistan.


                          Boy that was a long post. Man I had no idea that I could change from one subject to another to another. Whew!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            BM,

                            Whew, long read there. You've touched on many points. I am not going to quote you, hopefully to make this a shorter response.

                            I remember the Soviet invasion and thought it was a fait accompli. Certainly, we hear about the guerrilla movement but no major victories. In fact, no major battles, at least none on par with Khe Sanh, Tet, or the Highlands. You'll hear a mujahadeen bde here and there wiping out a Red Army coy size outpost but nothing to indicate the Soviets were losing. There were false expectations back by some very isolated incidents that made us believe that the Soveits would resort to their old Stalinist ways (Had Stalin been in command, Afghanistan would be a minor sideshow with the entire population either slaughtered or deported to freeze in Siberia). It was certainly a shock to us when Gorbachev withdrew though looking back 20/20, the signs were there.

                            I disagree that the Soviets didn't chase the mujahadeen into the mountains. They just did it the wrong way. They mounted major expeditions from battalion to division size. The Red Army regts, especially those from Central Asia thought very little of the mujahadeen. Their battle records spoke of delivering far more than they took.

                            Oh, the Romans fought seige warfare as a matter of tactic. They built forts every night. The Brits and the French did the same thing in North America and in Africa with their various Forts. The Americans did the same thing in their expansion West to the Pacific.

                            You made very valid points about trying to lift indigenious peoples out of their proverty. Nearly half a century has ended Imperialism in Africa and Asia. Asia lifted itself to the great countries that they are while Africa sank deeper into its malice even though they were once great civilizations, challenging Rome and China in its wealth and cultural sophistication.

                            I don't know about Iraq but it feels like the old British mistakes after they kicked out the Ottoman Turks.

                            Afghanistan? We're the new Red Army now. No one likes the Kazai government. I wonder how much do we have to bleed before we learn the lesson and exit ala Somalia style. I am pissed off how the two Canadians died and how naive we were in thinking this was a peacekeeping mission.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I don't agree with all your points Blademaster, but overall- a very well thought out and quite excellent post.

                              Kudos to you bro.

                              You make a lot of observations akin to those i made in the thread where we discussed the Jewish people's handling of their plight in WWII.

                              There are some things in your post i disagree with pretty strongly, but overall....excellent post.

                              Comment

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