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Belt-Fed Assaultrifles/LMG-Versions?

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  • Belt-Fed Assaultrifles/LMG-Versions?

    Some time ago, This Romanian/German guy I know told me about the RPK-47 he "obtained" on some market in russia (i think) along with some rounds, 150 of em on an ammo belt, and according to him, all that had to be done was sticking it into the magazine-opening and fire away....and some time later i heard from my cousin that my country's special forces, the Police Grenadeers (Somehow the UBER-Elite), get to use their SIG 550's or whatever versions with a magazine that misses spring and bottom with ammo belts...so i'd like to know if it's just something common that assault rifles generally or partially are capable of being belt-fed or if that'd require a special bolt/ammo-belt

  • #2
    Originally posted by Ricola-Ranger
    Some time ago, This Romanian/German guy I know told me about the RPK-47 he "obtained" on some market in russia (i think) along with some rounds, 150 of em on an ammo belt, and according to him, all that had to be done was sticking it into the magazine-opening and fire away....and some time later i heard from my cousin that my country's special forces, the Police Grenadeers (Somehow the UBER-Elite), get to use their SIG 550's or whatever versions with a magazine that misses spring and bottom with ammo belts...so i'd like to know if it's just something common that assault rifles generally or partially are capable of being belt-fed or if that'd require a special bolt/ammo-belt

    I can't think of a way to belt-fed an RPK (this is a strengthened AKM receiver) without extensive modifications to the receiver. Its possible, a lot of work will go into it. Perhaps your friend is talking about the PK/PKM ? Same for the 550's. The only rifles I'd seen that will accept belt feed and magazine feed with minimum modification would be the HK-11/21 family. Another would be (upto an extent) the Stoner M63 system.

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    • #3
      Ok he told me he had to use a special module that somehow strips the cartridges from the belt and obviously transports the latter too....in his own words its "insert the module, clip in the belt and "RATATATATAK"

      here http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/n...e=20050703.txt they talk about an RPK-Belt too...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Ricola-Ranger
        Some time ago, This Romanian/German guy I know told me about the RPK-47 he "obtained" on some market in russia (i think) along with some rounds, 150 of em on an ammo belt, and according to him, all that had to be done was sticking it into the magazine-opening and fire away....and some time later i heard from my cousin that my country's special forces, the Police Grenadeers (Somehow the UBER-Elite), get to use their SIG 550's or whatever versions with a magazine that misses spring and bottom with ammo belts...so i'd like to know if it's just something common that assault rifles generally or partially are capable of being belt-fed or if that'd require a special bolt/ammo-belt
        Weird, weird, and more weird.
        I don't know how this is possible. Maybe he was using a paper belt, and was manually feeding the belt up into the gun while it fired.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by sniperdude411
          Weird, weird, and more weird.
          I don't know how this is possible. Maybe he was using a paper belt, and was manually feeding the belt up into the gun while it fired.
          no it was a plastic/metal belt...
          besides, it was a belt that didn't desintegrate after the cases were removed. i think it may have been half-open on the top (like the "rings" that keep the cartridge in place are 1/3 open) and the system somehow rips the cartridge out of the belt (thus making it either useless or refillable) and feeds them upwards while the belt exits the system already on the "magazine-level"....i'll ask him the next time i catch him online (probably tomorrow)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ricola-Ranger
            Ok he told me he had to use a special module that somehow strips the cartridges from the belt and obviously transports the latter too....in his own words its "insert the module, clip in the belt and "RATATATATAK"

            here http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/n...e=20050703.txt they talk about an RPK-Belt too...
            Checked out the CENTCOM release- Now I'm even more sure they're talking about the PK series and mistakenly labelling it RPK. They've mentioned the RPK ammo seperately, which (unless if its an RPK-74) is actually 7.62mmX39mm - The same ammo used on the AK. My guess is they are talking about the PK since the ammo is differrent (7.62mmX54mmR)- the same stuff used in Dragunovs, Moisin Nagants etc. The Iraqis use a lot of PKs.

            As for the Module that gobbles up belts, I cannot claim that I've seen one. A non disintegrating belt that can handle AK ammo will be that of the RPD. Former Soviet/Eastbloc ones have two 50 round segments linked, while the Chinese do the same in 25 round increments. The design of the belt is such that, the round needs to be pulled back out of the belt by claws, angled to the breech then chambered by the bolt. It will be impractical and somewhat daunting to squeeze all this into a basic AK(RPK) receiver. Due to the pronounced taper of the AK round, it would be It will be difficult to use 'push-through' type links as that in NATO usage - you'd have to damage the push through typ links if you used the AK round. Plus you'd also need a motive force to actually move the belt for every cycle of the action. More often than not, this is effected by the to and fro movement of the carrier and piston assembly in interaction with angled pathways and cams. There is no practical way this can be achieved on an RPK without extensive modifications, which defeats the whole purpose of the "slip in and rooty-toot-toot" module. In theory, a belt feed with independent motive power is possible with stuff like wind up springs and perhaps electrical, but the spring would have to be immensely robust and of course you'd be down to winding the spring once you've run a belt through. You'd also need a mechanism to push up the stripped round more than 1/2 an inch up to align with the breech and bolt head because it would be difficult to squeeze in a viable entry and exit point for the belt within the small space that the magazine occupies inside the receiver. Or perhaps I'm missing out on something entirely....?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by cottage cheese
              I can't think of a way to belt-fed an RPK (this is a strengthened AKM receiver) without extensive modifications to the receiver. Its possible, a lot of work will go into it. Perhaps your friend is talking about the PK/PKM ? Same for the 550's. The only rifles I'd seen that will accept belt feed and magazine feed with minimum modification would be the HK-11/21 family. Another would be (upto an extent) the Stoner M63 system.
              I do believe the Minimi at one point also could use belts and magazines with little modifications.
              "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

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              • #8
                Originally posted by leibstandarte10
                I do believe the Minimi at one point also could use belts and magazines with little modifications.
                The Minimi is a Machine Gun, so too the Negev. I was talking about rifles, and to put a fine point to it, even the HK11/21 is more of an MG than a Rifle. :)

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                • #9
                  OK, I put too much time into answering some of these posts.

                  Couldn’t find anything on a ‘drop-in’ conversion module to belt feed for SiG 550 / Stgw. 90. Got me curious enough to send an e-mail to the armasuisse Procurement and Technology Center to inquire about such a system.

                  Since the SiG 550 breaks down similarly to the M-16 with a upper and lower group



                  I was thinking of a modular design similar to the ARES DEFENSE SYSTEMS



                  Shrike 5.56 upper conversion assembly.





                  I guess you can get a belt feed up the mag well to work!!! BELT FED 1911 .45 ACP



                  Scroll to see a bolt action belt fed and a .308 AR style converted to belt too.
                  Last edited by ak-dave; 17 Aug 05,, 00:09.
                  AK-Dave

                  Those who trade liberty for security have none.

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                  • #10
                    I've got a picture in a book on Vietnam snipers showing a belt fed M16. Never seen one anywhere else though.
                    Rule 303

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ak-dave
                      OK, I put too much time into answering some of these posts.
                      Couldn’t find anything on a ‘drop-in’ conversion module to belt feed for SiG 550 / Stgw. 90. Got me curious enough to send an e-mail to the
                      Since the SiG 550 breaks down similarly to the M-16 with a upper and lower group

                      I was thinking of a modular design similar to the

                      I guess you can get a belt feed up the mag well to work!!!
                      Scroll to see a bolt action belt fed and a .308 AR style converted to belt too.
                      Well if the belt fed pistols and stuff is not a spoof, then hats off to the 'smith - he has my full respect. :)
                      As for the Ares, the weapon is awsome but again other than the M16 type lower receiver, its a totally different weapon.
                      Last edited by cottage cheese; 17 Aug 05,, 09:44.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ak-dave
                        OK, I put too much time into answering some of these posts.

                        Couldn’t find anything on a ‘drop-in’ conversion module to belt feed for SiG 550 / Stgw. 90. Got me curious enough to send an e-mail to the armasuisse Procurement and Technology Center to inquire about such a system.

                        Since the SiG 550 breaks down similarly to the M-16 with a upper and lower group
                        hm lol, i didn't even think of asking your own military
                        thanks for the idea

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                        • #13
                          I think the Ares is actually quite a logical weapon for an army on a budget.

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