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  • Equipping the Iraqi army

    The Iraqi army is getting arms from all around the world but most of it are old soviet-era weapons. Now it is getting 115 BTR-80 armoured personnel carriers from Poland and that is a significant step for making Iraqi forces more mobile and increasing it's effectiveness to quickly respond to threats. I also heared that Hungary will give Iraq 100 T-72 tanks. That are no state-of-the-art weapons but still better then most of what they have today. Does anybody know how much weapons were sent to Iraq and from which countrys?

    link: http://www.janes.com/defence/land_fo...0729_1_n.shtml

  • #2
    I believe that Switzerland donated over 100 x M113s, and many Eastern European nations have donated Soviet bloc small arms.
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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    • #3
      thanks shek :)

      Comment


      • #4
        Here's the link on the Swiss donation. I guess they preferred to keep their bikes over the "Gavins."

        http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-uae/index.php
        "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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        • #5
          Originally posted by shek
          Here's the link on the Swiss donation. I guess they preferred to keep their bikes over the "Gavins."

          http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-uae/index.php
          I guess our Iraqi allies didn't want wheeled Stryker trucks of death so they took "gavins" instead. ;)

          Sparky's been quiet as of late it appears.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Wraith601
            I guess our Iraqi allies didn't want wheeled Stryker trucks of death so they took "gavins" instead. ;)

            Sparky's been quiet as of late it appears.
            1. Well, I believe that the 7 x SBCTs have been almost 100% funded, so it's pretty much a done deal.
            2. With M113s dressed in slat armor like the Stryker, it's hard to criticize the slat armor.
            3. The continued successes of 1/25 ID (SBCT) in rolling up AQ leaders in northern Iraq and the availability of Stryker soldiers who have served in Iraq to refute his arguments is growing everyday.

            I think that he's finally realized that the decision four years is unreversible at this point in the game.
            "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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            • #7
              Originally posted by shek
              1. Well, I believe that the 7 x SBCTs have been almost 100% funded, so it's pretty much a done deal.
              2. With M113s dressed in slat armor like the Stryker, it's hard to criticize the slat armor.
              3. The continued successes of 1/25 ID (SBCT) in rolling up AQ leaders in northern Iraq and the availability of Stryker soldiers who have served in Iraq to refute his arguments is growing everyday.

              I think that he's finally realized that the decision four years is unreversible at this point in the game.
              There's a 7th SBCT? That's news to me, what unit is getting them now?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Wraith601
                There's a 7th SBCT? That's news to me, what unit is getting them now?
                I'd have to check it out - maybe I'm thinking of the original plans.
                "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

                Comment


                • #9
                  well they do need equipments for sure.
                  But there has been recent criticsm the way iraqi armed forces and police is been trained.
                  What's the difference between people who pray in church and those who pray in casinos?
                  The ones in the casinos are serious.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bull
                    well they do need equipments for sure.
                    But there has been recent criticsm the way iraqi armed forces and police is been trained.
                    What's that criticism? We lost a year in doing it right, but finally got serious last spring and finally got all cylinders firing last fall. I think it is very well organized and executed now.
                    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I guess our Iraqi allies didn't want wheeled Stryker trucks of death so they took "gavins" instead. Sparky's been quiet as of late it appears
                      check the picture topic on the Iraqi Army I opened... they have recieved BTR-94 "trucks of death" from Jordan and use French M-3 "trucks of death" as well...

                      I posted pictures as well...
                      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by shek
                        I'd have to check it out - maybe I'm thinking of the original plans.
                        I'd heard rumors of a 7th SBCT to be based in Europe when 1st ID and 1st AD come back stateside, but the only official transformations I know of are:
                        3/2nd ID
                        1/25 ID
                        172nd Infantry Brigade
                        2nd ACR
                        2/25th ID
                        the PA NG brigade, 56th Infantry I think

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shek
                          Here's the link on the Swiss donation. I guess they preferred to keep their bikes over the "Gavins."

                          http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-uae/index.php
                          Pols are also buying 34 Mi-17 transport helicopters for Iraq from Russia. I would estimate price at around $5mln a peice for new or $2-2.5 for a used but fully repaired..... each can carry 36 troops

                          these are the specs of the Mi-17
                          http://www.kazanhelicopters.com:8080...licopters/mi17

                          ________________

                          IRAQ MAY PURCHASE RUSSIAN-MADE HELICOPTERS VIA POLAND

                          657 words
                          3 August 2005
                          WPS: Defense & Security
                          English
                          (c) 2005 WPS. All Rights Reserved.

                          Poland will have to turn to Russia for assistance in fulfilling a contract to supply Iraq's new Armed Forces with Mi-8 and Mi-17 helicopters. Iraq already has pilots trained to fly them. The total cost of 10 new and 24 used helicopters would be at least $95 million.

                          Poland will have to turn to Russia for assistance in fulfilling a contract to supply Iraq's new Armed Forces with Mi-8 and Mi-17 helicopters.

                          Jane's Defence Weekly reports that Bumar, the Polish arms trade body (the counterpart of Russia's Rosoboroneksport), is planning to purchase 34 Mi-8/17 helicopters in Russia and resell them to the Iraqi Defense Ministry. According to Jane's, Poland hopes to purchase 10 new Mi-17 helicopters and 24 overhauled Mi-8s (the Mi-17 is a later model of the Mi-8). Reportedly, Poland is prepared to pay $55-60 million for the used helicopters alone. The 10 new aircraft will be built at the helicopter plants in Kazan and Ulan-Ude, while the 24 Mi-8s would be collected from all over Russia and serviced at the Russian Aircraft Maintenance Plant.

                          When we approached Rosoboroneksport (Russian Defense Exports) and Oboronprom (the holding company that unites Mi helicopter producers), we were told that no contracts for supplying helicopters to Iraq have yet been signed; neither has Poland approached the Kazan Helicopter Plant or the plant in Ulan-Ude (U-UAZ).

                          However, a source close to the Bumar leadership says that the only way Poland can fulfill this contract is by approaching Russia. Poland has attempted to overhaul eight Mi-8 helicopters on its own, but the Americans who are approving hardware deliveries for Iraq's new military rejected those helicopters.

                          Konstantin Makienko from the Strategy and Technology Analysis Center says that Russian-made helicopters are four times cheaper than their European or American counterparts, and frequently more reliable. "However, there's no point in buying used helicopters from Russia - they date back to the 1980s and don't have much service lifespan left, so it would be better to order new ones."

                          American S-92 helicopters, with similar specifications to the Mi-8, cost $17 million each - compared to $3.5-4 million per Russian helicopter. A source at one of the helicopter-building plants says that the cost of a used Mi-8, including the overhaul, would be around $2.5 million.

                          Marat Kenzhetaev, an analyst from the Disarmament Studies Center, says that operating costs for Mi-8/17 helicopters would also be less than for their Western counterparts, and Iraq already has pilots trained to fly them. The Iraqi military had 42 Mi-8/17 helicopters before the 2003 war, supplied by the Soviet Union starting in the 1970s.

                          Makienko points out that this wouldn't be the first delivery of military hardware to Iraq from countries that opposed the war. Last year, Iraq completed a purchase of coast-guard vessels from China, ordered when Saddam Hussein was in power. Makienko says: "In terms of the price-performance ratio, Soviet-era hardware like the Mi-8 is still the best for low-intensity conflicts. It has been readily used by the CIA in Afghanistan, and by South African mercenaries in Africa."

                          If this contract is signed, Russia would be making more military deliveries to Iraq than Ukraine, which has sent troops there. Natalia Pechorina, an analyst with the Military-UA military information project in Ukraine, says: "To date, Ukraine has supplied about $80 million worth of dual-use technology to the new government of Iraq." An executive from one of Russia's helicopter-building plants estimates that the total cost of 10 new and 24 used helicopters would be at least $95 million. Including commissions, that would add up to over $100 million.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wraith601
                            I'd heard rumors of a 7th SBCT to be based in Europe when 1st ID and 1st AD come back stateside, but the only official transformations I know of are:
                            3/2nd ID
                            1/25 ID
                            172nd Infantry Brigade
                            2nd ACR
                            2/25th ID
                            the PA NG brigade, 56th Infantry I think
                            According to the link I posted in this thread , 2nd ACR will wind up in Europe and apparently a brigade of 1st ID is slated for SBCT transformation.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shek
                              Here's the link on the Swiss donation. I guess they preferred to keep their bikes over the "Gavins."

                              http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-uae/index.php
                              Sale of Iraq-Bound Tanks Hangs in the Balance
                              Swiss Information service
                              Thu, 25 Aug 2005, 09:19

                              The Swiss cabinet has suspended its decision to allow the sale of 180 personnel carriers to the United Arab Emirates, from where they were destined for Iraq.

                              That means that the controversial sale of the used vehicles remains in the balance, awaiting guarantees that they are to be used for civilian purposes only.

                              At its weekly meeting in Bern, the government reviewed its earlier position at the request of the economics ministry, which is responsible for the sale. Government spokesman Oswald Sigg said the ministry wanted the State Secretariat for Economic Affairs (Seco) to clarify some issues concerning the necessity of the sale and the use of the tanks.

                              Economics Minister Joseph Deiss indicated on August 16 that the delivery would not be made without guarantees on the use of the tanks in Iraq.

                              Assurances

                              At that time, Deiss called on Seco to make certain that the personnel carriers would be used exclusively by police services, for the protection of borders and for transporting materials. The majority of a parliamentary committee accepted Deiss's point of view and voted not to stop the sale by 13 votes to ten, with two abstentions.

                              Final authorisation is still lacking after the July attacks on London triggered new fears and fanned the debate regarding Swiss neutrality.

                              The Basler Zeitung newspaper had earlier reported that the tanks would not be used in the police force, as originally intended, but would instead be used in the Iraqi army tank division, at the alleged request of the United States.

                              The government approved the export on June 29 but has yet to issue a legally binding export certificate, the economics ministry said last month.

                              End-user declaration

                              It said that after it became known that the United Arab Emirates would hand the 180 armoured personnel carriers over to the Iraqi government as a gift, a so-called end-user declaration was required, formally acknowledging that this was the case.

                              The Iraqi government must now confirm that the tanks are indeed bound for Iraq. The government-owned Ruag armaments group, which is selling the tanks, is required to submit an end-user declaration to Seco.

                              Seco said the US, as the personnel carriers' country of manufacture, must confirm that it approves the deal.

                              The Social Democratic Party interpreted the government's initial approval as a complete turnaround in its war material policy, while the Swiss People's Party felt that Switzerland's neutrality was at threat.

                              The Christian Democratic Party and the Radicals supported the cabinet decision.

                              link: http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publ...cle_003150.php

                              Guess not...

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