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  • #46
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    This paper might give you some answers

    https://twitter.com/joshuatwhite/sta...09920888082432

    Was listening to an interview John Bolton gave to a local channel and the thinking went if Trump gets his trade deal and a second term he isn't going to ride China hard any more. Does not need to as there are no more votes to win.

    Some people think this implies India gets hung out to dry. I'm not entirely clear why they say that.
    Could be. The Indo-US relation then goes into the freezer for another 50 years.

    See, what I found in your Twitter link.

    Click image for larger version

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    LMAO!!!
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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    • #47
      It's time to push back against challenge posed by China: Mike Pompeo

      View: The US needs to make India a bigger trade partner to counter China's new playbook
      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        Could be. The Indo-US relation then goes into the freezer for another 50 years.
        It was Nitin who said it

        Now in what context would it happen ?

        Let's say Trump gets his second term. Why would he suddenly turn hostile towards us.

        In what manner of speaking does India get hung out to dry ?

        We know we're fighting China on our own already.

        That means $$$ for Trump in terms of arms deals.

        Which in turn gives us leverage in our relations with Russia.

        He's not going to sanction us and lose those arms deals.

        In this respect I'd argue he'd be more predictable than a Democrat president with a hard on about Russia.
        Last edited by Double Edge; 17 Jul 20,, 12:12.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
          It was Nitin who said it

          Now in what context would it happen ?

          Let's say Trump gets his second term. Why would he suddenly turn hostile towards us.

          In what manner of speaking does India get hung out to dry ?

          We know we're fighting China on our own already.

          That means $$$ for Trump in terms of arms deals.

          Which in turn gives us leverage in our relations with Russia.

          He's not going to sanction us and lose those arms deals.

          In this respect I'd argue he'd be more predictable than a Democrat president with a hard on about Russia.
          Didn't knew Nitin said that. Anyway, Trump being Trump, wanted to mediate between us and the terrorists. We bifurcated the state into union territories.

          Trump, not doing anything is good enough for us. Trump saying, something, even in our support, could be a mess, that we have to clean afterwards.
          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
            Pakistan did our dirty work by blocking CD. We have enough fissile material in stock.
            Pakistan doesn't.

            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
            The bold part is interesting. When has Britain or France or say even Germany been a threat to the US post WWII.
            All three were wrecked and in no position to even take on India and Vietnam, let alone the US. And the German threat was East Germany, the 2nd most powerful Warsaw Pact member after the USSR.

            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
            Pakistan is past its sell-by date. A stronger Pakistan will never be an existential threat to India. If Pakistan is the monkey US is looking for, then it has not worked, nor will it ever work.
            It's a damned monkey, not a 800lb gorilla. Learn your analogies.

            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
            Soviets were closer. Didn't stop us from cutting Pakistan in two.
            Point was the US could be an enemy again.

            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
            This example does not make any sense in this context. I was talking about FB, Google and compared them to Jio.
            And I was explaining why there was no need for a Jio in the West and hence why we did not develop one. India is different in that she did not had the POT system that we had and hence, Jio is a much more economical solution for her.

            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
            Why not? Have the world not moved from Sony to Xiaomi? 80% of the world consists of poor people.
            Took 30 years and all because of Linux, hence Google, creating a new platform to which cheaper solutions to arise. Sony dominated the banks in the 80s and 90s and not until Google put forth mobile banking did Sony started seeing decline in the front end (but not backend) business. You cannot try to overcome someone by copying his success. You have to find your own, ie VHS vs BETAMAX (yes, I know you weren't alive then).

            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
            American second-hand most probably. Where would we get the spares and technicians for those? Thanks, but no thanks.
            British subs, German tanks, Australian F-18s (all previously-used).

            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
            There is a solution to every problem. Have to think about this scenario.
            It's cheaper to keep Pakistanis in Pakistan no matter how you add it up.
            Chimo

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            • #51
              Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
              Pakistan doesn't.
              Why would we care, and honestly why would you?

              All three were wrecked and in no position to even take on India and Vietnam, let alone the US. And the German threat was East Germany, the 2nd most powerful Warsaw Pact member after the USSR.
              Could these countries be threats now, had their economies risen like that of China, even while being democratic?

              It's a damned monkey, not a 800lb gorilla. Learn your analogies.
              How is my analogy wrong?

              You said -
              You've missed the point. The Americans couldn't care less. We've allied ourselves with the likes of Stalin against Hitler and Mao/Deng against Brezhnev. Stalin/Mao/Deng were no angels. So tiny Pakistan don't even register a blurp.

              Also, we know that someday that India would be a challenge to our interests. That's just the way things have historically worked. So keeping Pakistan around is somewhat handy.
              I said -
              Pakistan is past its sell-by date. A stronger Pakistan will never be an existential threat to India. If Pakistan is the monkey US is looking for, then it has not worked, nor will it ever work.
              Pakistan can at best be an irritant.

              Point was the US could be an enemy again.
              Could be.

              Took 30 years and all because of Linux, hence Google, creating a new platform to which cheaper solutions to arise. Sony dominated the banks in the 80s and 90s and not until Google put forth mobile banking did Sony started seeing decline in the front end (but not backend) business. You cannot try to overcome someone by copying his success. You have to find your own, ie VHS vs BETAMAX (yes, I know you weren't alive then).
              We have some of our own. Ayurveda, Yoga etc. The west is doing its best copying those. Sexual yoga, tantrik yoga, naked yoga. :D

              British subs, German tanks, Australian F-18s (all previously-used).
              Why does Canada need subs, tanks and fighter jets again? Who's gonna invade a land that is cold for 8 months of the year?

              It's cheaper to keep Pakistanis in Pakistan no matter how you add it up.
              Not disagreeing with you. I have to think about a scenario where both our references apply.

              Keeping the Paks in Pakistan, and defang and de-arm the PA.
              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                Why would we care, and honestly why would you?
                A nuclear arms race is in no one's interest.

                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                Could these countries be threats now, had their economies risen like that of China, even while being democratic?
                Russia and Iran are democracies.

                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                How is my analogy wrong?

                Pakistan can at best be an irritant.
                A 800lb gorilla can smash you on the ground. A monkey on your back going nuts just keep you busy while you tried to to tie it down. It ain't going to kill you but you ain't going to concentrate on anything else.

                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                Could be
                Like I said, I lived through enough of these enemy to friend to enemy things to have my cynicism up.

                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                We have some of our own. Ayurveda, Yoga etc. The west is doing its best copying those. Sexual yoga, tantrik yoga, naked yoga. :D
                But we came up with yoga pants. You're welcome.

                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                Why does Canada need subs, tanks and fighter jets again? Who's gonna invade a land that is cold for 8 months of the year?
                All our strategic interests are outside of North America and hence we need to defend them, as such, always part of a Coalition. We were the British Empire's strategic reserves and also NATO's.
                Chimo

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                  Russia and Iran are democracies.
                  On paper, Sir. Pakistan is also a democracy, then.

                  A 800lb gorilla can smash you on the ground. A monkey on your back going nuts just keep you busy while you tried to to tie it down. It ain't going to kill you but you ain't going to concentrate on anything else.
                  I would have said the same thing, but, I wanted to hear it from you.

                  Like I said, I lived through enough of these enemy to friend to enemy things to have my cynicism up.
                  Hmmm. Maybe, one day I will also think and talk like you.

                  But we came up with yoga pants. You're welcome.
                  Hahahaha!

                  All our strategic interests are outside of North America and hence we need to defend them, as such, always part of a Coalition. We were the British Empire's strategic reserves and also NATO's.
                  If not the Army, what would have been your career choice? Not porn, I heard it, and you were joking.
                  Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Reliance Jio seeks spectrum for 5G trials, plans to sell tech overseas

                    How did they manage to come up with 5G, that too built in-house?
                    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Risk of China cyber attacks, DoT seeks security audit

                      If, only, a thief would change its profession.
                      Last edited by Oracle; 21 Jul 20,, 15:09.
                      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        TikTok fails to shake off authoritarian links to Chinese state

                        At first glance, TikTok is an unusual geopolitical flashpoint. The app, which offers a set of tools that make producing video fun and easy and in turn provides viewers with an endless stream of entertaining sub-minute clips, has more than half a billion users, with the majority aged under 30.

                        It is owned by a Chinese company, ByteDance, but unlike peers such as Huawei and ZTE, it has little to do with critical national infrastructure, and has so far managed to avoid the accusations of intellectual property theft and state aid which are often the first step to sanctions. If anything, with Facebook this week launching a pitch-perfect TikTok clone, Reels, the company can make a case that it is a genuine innovator, oft-followed, never beaten.

                        But try as it might, TikTok cannot escape its past. The app was born in China as Douyin, ByteDance’s second viral success after a news aggregator, Toutiao, took the country by storm in 2017. But when the company failed to export Toutiao overseas, marketing it to westerners as TopBuzz, it looked set to join a long list of Chinese web firms that failed to thrive outside the Great Firewall.

                        With TikTok, ByteDance took a different approach, buying out the already popular Musical.ly, another Chinese app that had succeeded in gathering a critical mass of users in the west. The company rebranded Musical.ly as TikTok, and spent nearly $1bn on app install adverts across the US to boost its growth still further.

                        In the process, it attracted a fair amount of criticism, eventually agreeing to settle with the US Federal Trade Commission over allegations it had been cavalier with regards to children’s personal data.

                        But in the summer of 2019, the app began to come under additional scrutiny because of its Chinese origins. As the Hong Kong protests escalated, users noticed content celebrating the cause was nearly absent on the app; a bizarre omission, given the overlap in the youthful demographics of both.

                        In September, the Guardian received documents that confirmed what many had suspected: the app’s moderation team had been explicitly instructed to remove content covering topics Beijing would rather not be discussed, including Tiananmen Square, Falun Gong and Taiwan. TikTok said the guidelines had been retired that May, and future versions would be written by the local teams in each country.

                        This summer, China’s international standing has deteriorated further after a repressive national security law was introduced in Hong Kong and human rights investigators produced more evidence pointing towards a genocide in Xinjiang. To legislators in the US and UK, TikTok’s dominance looks increasingly dangerous as a result.

                        One set of fears revolve around the app’s potential for harvesting user data. TikTok does not know much about its users, particularly compared with a fully featured social network such as Facebook, and the company has always maintained that user data is not stored in China but in data centres in the US, Singapore and elsewhere around the world.

                        Nonetheless, observers fear ByteDance, like all Chinese companies, has little ability to stand up to the state if it does demand access. The company already had to make a public apology to state censors in 2017, after the Cyberspace Administration of China condemned it for “disseminating pornographic and vulgar information” through Toutiao, sparking little faith that it would resist a more forceful intervention.

                        The other set of fears go back to the moderation guidelines – and further. TikTok’s most powerful feature is the For You page, an algorithmically curated feed of videos that most users never need click away from. Like all curation algorithms, the exact way the app picks what to show users is shrouded in mystery. That has caused alarm among those who have observed the Chinese state’s increasing desire to control conversation not just at home, but abroad as well.

                        When NBA stars shared messages of support for Hong Kong on Twitter, which is banned in China, the US basketball league was forced to apologise or face suspension from the airwaves. It was censorship, but loud and obvious – and sparked a backlash of equal ferocity. If the stars had tried to express the same support on TikTok, and the algorithm simply failed to make their messages go viral, it seems possible no one would have even noticed.
                        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                          On paper, Sir. Pakistan is also a democracy, then.
                          ALL countries are democracies. People vote either by ballot or by bullet. In the case of Iran, Russia, and Pakistan, people have enough satisfying say through ballot that they're not resorting to bullet.

                          Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                          If not the Army, what would have been your career choice? Not porn, I heard it, and you were joking.
                          I never second guess myself.
                          Chimo

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                            Risk of China cyber attacks, DoT seeks security audit

                            If, only, a thief would change its profession.
                            Pot, meet Kettle. India is the notorious home of criminal hackers and scammers.
                            Chimo

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                              Pot, meet Kettle. India is the notorious home of criminal hackers and scammers.
                              Not entirely correct there. Hackers and scammers in India are not backed by the state.
                              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                                ALL countries are democracies. People vote either by ballot or by bullet. In the case of Iran, Russia, and Pakistan, people have enough satisfying say through ballot that they're not resorting to bullet.
                                Iran and Russia maybe, can't say the same for Pakistan. Everything in Pakistan is engineered by the PA/ISI combine.

                                I never second guess myself.
                                Well, would have been a good choice for you.
                                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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