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Thread: US troops being cut in Germany

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    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    US troops being cut in Germany

    https://www.militarytimes.com/news/p...ermany-report/

    The U.S. military will reduce its footprint in Germany by nearly one-third after President Donald Trump ordered a dramatic drawdown in force levels from the key NATO ally, the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday.

    The newspaper cited White House officials who said the move was outlined in a memorandum signed White House National Security Adviser Robert O'Brien in recent days that has still not been made public yet.

    Under the order, U.S. troop presence in Germany would drop by 9,500 servicemembers, from 34,500 today to about 25,000.



    The Wall Street Journal reported that the administration will also cap the number of total troops in the country at 25,000, creating a potential logistics problem for the military. The total personnel presence can swell to double that number or more as units process through major bases in Germany for deployment across the globe.

    Officials from the White House did not immediately respond to requests for comment from Military Times. Officials from U.S. European Command deferred comment to the Pentagon. The Pentagon deferred questions to the National Security Council.

    Trump for years has lamented the cost of housing U.S. troops at overseas bases, even as Pentagon leaders have emphasized the strategic value of such arrangements and the costs shouldered by U.S. allies.

    No information was released on what units currently stationed in Germany could be affected by the move.

    Last edited by Gun Grape; 07 Jun 20, at 00:43.
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    Political reactions in Germany are mostly along the lines of "Trump administration further destroys trans-atlantic alliances" and "Take it as a chance to realign German security politics to a European viewpoint". And that's the ones that can be considered "positive" about it.

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    Interesting how they plan to pull this off in the midst of a nonmove order for DoD.

    You can't even schedule a moving appointment at most installations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Interesting how they plan to pull this off in the midst of a nonmove order for DoD.
    With the last update the nonmove order does not apply to troops in Germany as a host nation since it has relaxed shelter-in-place restrictions and exhibits downward trends in Covid-19.

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    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    https://www.military.com/daily-news/...en-lifted.html

    The Pentagon has lifted travel restrictions in a majority of states, the District of Columbia and five countries -- a change that will allow service members to plan and execute duty station moves and military and recreational travel.

    Defense Department officials announced Monday that, effective immediately, troops in 38 states and D.C., as well as Bahrain, Belgium, Germany, the United Kingdom and Japan, are cleared for travel, subject to final decisions by local installation commanders.

    Commanders at bases in states other than California, Florida, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Virginia and Wisconsin can now decide whether assigned personnel may resume normal travel.
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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Is this connected ?

    Pompeo was asked why the US had reduced the number of troops it has based in Germany. The US Secretary of State said that if US troops were no longer there, it was because they were being moved to face other places.
    https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...wbUQMVXjI.html

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    Not really i think, if it refers to rebasings in the past couple years. Most of those were along the lines of no longer formally basing troops in Germany that were never there in full anyway (but instead deployed to e.g. Afghanistan). The real number of troops in Germany hasn't really changed much in the last couple years, since 2 SCR and 12 CAB fully redeployed to Germany.

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    Esper has announced the plans in detail, and to phrase it a bit differently:
    • move all combat jets from Germany to Italy
    • move all combat helicopters from Germany to Belgium
    • move all combat ground forces from Germany to the USA
    • close down USAG Stuttgart, shifting EUCOM over to SHAPE and AFRICOM to an undisclosed location


    To somewhat mollify Poland a new Corps HQ will be stationed there. To make up numbers for "let's punish Germany as Trump wants it" the USAFE strategic aircraft fleet will not be concentrated in Germany as planned but instead remain split between Germany and Italy.

    All planned remaining 24,000 US soldiers in Germany work for the "logistics turntable" that solely supports US adventures in Eastern Europe and the Middle East as opposed to providing any sort of benefit to Germany, Europe or NATO.


    For a more professional, shorter commentary read this Twitter series by Mark Hertling, former Commanding General of USAREUR and 7th Army.
    Last edited by kato; 29 Jul 20, at 19:23.

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    Here's hoping the Generals will start dragging their feet until Trump is out of office.

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    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Will take months of planning and then some years to actually pull it off. So this time being a bureaucracy might actually work in favor of said bureaucracy.

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    Full transcript of press conference: https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Tra...force-posture/

    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Will take months of planning and then some years to actually pull it off.
    And money equivalent to one-fifth to one-quarter of the German defense budget.

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    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Funny how both of those countries spend less than the Trump magic 2% than Germany does.

    If I was Chancellor for the day I would tell Trump since he is moving troops go ahead and close Ramstein and Landstuhl. We no longer want US troops at those locations since it is overkill for the number of combat troops remaining in Germany

    If he wants to make it "Painful for me, I'll make it painful for the US
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 30 Jul 20, at 02:14.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    If I was Chancellor for the day I would tell Trump since he is moving troops go ahead and close Ramstein and Landstuhl.
    She can't do that, that'd be appeasing non-conservative parties. Left and Greens call for closing Ramstein about once per year traditionally citing a variety of reasons. Last Federal Parliament rejection of such motions was in January.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    If he wants to make it "Painful for me, I'll make it painful for the US
    Merkel stated after the annoncement in June:
    "Should the USA out of their own free will decide to abandon [wanting to be a world power] we will have to deeply reconsider the [transatlantic relationship]".

    Given that statement there's no further comment required from her now really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Funny how both of those countries spend less than the Trump magic 2% than Germany does.

    If I was Chancellor for the day I would tell Trump since he is moving troops go ahead and close Ramstein and Landstuhl. We no longer want US troops at those locations since it is overkill for the number of combat troops remaining in Germany

    If he wants to make it "Painful for me, I'll make it painful for the US
    And Kaiserslautern/Miesau....largest concentration of logistics and sustainment support outside of CONUS. Once you get west past the Daubenbornerhof it is 41 kilometers of almost continuous logistics bases all the way to Miesau Army Ammunition Depot. Ramstein & Landstuhl is right in the middle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Once you get west past the Daubenbornerhof it is 41 kilometers of almost continuous logistics bases all the way to Miesau Army Ammunition Depot.
    To be fair it's pretty stretched out east-to-west. It's pretty much only Ramstein where you have 5 km north-south extent. And there's 10 km of city with Kaiserslautern as well as 7-8 km of forest between Landstuhl and Miesau in those 41 km.

    P.S.:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    We no longer want US troops at those locations since it is overkill for the number of combat troops remaining in Germany
    That would be falsely claiming that those locations are in any way required or supporting current combat troops in Germany.


    I wonder what the US would do if Germany now announced a next Combined Aid exercise to be held say in 2022 say in this nice convenient now German-owned and -used training ground of Baumholder. As in, PLA troops 20 miles from Ramstein. Maybe include some MedEvac flights with helos from that convenient slightly distant airfield recently freed up, i.e. Spangdahlem.

    And no, that's not particularly farfetched as Bundeswehr joint exercise planning goes.
    Last edited by kato; 30 Jul 20, at 16:24.

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