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Thread: US troops being cut in Germany

  1. #16
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    The following are some points made by French Lt. Gen Michel Yakovleff from the July AUSA magazine. I did include the link for the whole article below, as he goes into examples of the functional options for the Corps Headquarters vis a vis NATOs High Readiness Forces (Land) construct.

    - So what does V Corps bring to the fight in Europe? If you look at it in the context of the increased spending NATO has accomplished, 2019 was the fifth year in a row that overall spending by the alliance has increased, a Corps (even the Corps FWD) brings a lot in the areas of political and strategic significance.
    - The drawdown of forces in Europe basically started in 1990 during the first Gulf war, and as Kato mentions. “The real number of troops in Germany hasn't really changed much in the last couple years, since 2 SCR and 12 CAB fully redeployed to Germany.”
    - But the focus now isn’t on US forces stationed in Europe/Germany. It is NATO’s Enhanced Forward Presence and US forces in particular though not exclusively, rotate and exercise in Poland, Romania, Slovakia, the Baltic States, and in general engage in show the flag operations along the alliances eastern side.
    - So we now have a persistent reinforcement strategy going on. The last REFORGER was in 1990. Defender Europe 2020 is the start of Division sized elements returning to Europe from CONUS. (Hopefully we can lay aside the Covid related downsizing of this event for the sake of discussion.) A Russian looking at this from the boarder of Belarus and Poland sees an America getting stronger in Europe, not pivoting to the Pacific as had been advertised.
    - So as America continues to ask, some would say pressure, its European Allies to contribute more to the common defense, it is reasserting the role of leader of the West. The reactivation of V Corps in Feb 2020 adds to this leadership role.
    - With the V Corps, America is signaling the how big a fight America will be willing to engage in during a European crisis. The fact that the headquarters is in Ft Knox KY, but the FWD element is in Europe, gives this organization the ability to scale up as a situation demands. Scaling up the FWD element gives the opportunity for political signaling and the message sent would be unmistakable.



    (The following is from a Feb 11th announcement, the link is at the bottom.)
    Remarks by General McConville: "Combatant commanders know they can count on highly-trained and ready Army forces as they implement the National Defense Strategy around the world. The activation of an additional Corps headquarters provides the needed level of command and control focused on synchronizing U.S. Army, allied, and partner nation tactical formations operating in Europe. It will enhance U.S. Army Europe and U.S. European Command as they work alongside allies and partners to promote regional stability and security."
    Some other items of interest that the Corps will bring: The V Corps Headquarters will consist of approximately 635 soldiers, of which approximately 200 will support an operational command post in Europe on a rotational basis. The Corps Headquarters is projected to be operational by the fall of 2020. The establishment of V Corps enables the Army to fulfill requirements of the National Defense Strategy. It also supports a U.S. European Command request for increased command and control capability, and will support U.S. interests, allies and partners in the region.

    https://www.ausa.org/articles/v-corp...ve-role-europe

    https://www.army.mil/article/232649/...s_headquarters

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by looking4NSFS View Post
    It is NATO’s Enhanced Forward Presence and US forces in particular though not exclusively, rotate and exercise
    I'm not seeing all that much Star-Spangled Banner.
    Name:  efp_october-rPDj21.png
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    Quote Originally Posted by looking4NSFS View Post
    Romania, Slovakia
    Rotations into Romania (not Slovakia) are not part of NATO EFP, but a separate programme called "Tailored Forward Presence" (TFP).

    TFP fields the socalled "Multinational Brigade" in Romania which factually consists of the Romanian 2nd Infantry Brigade, augmented by a rotating single US battalion, which usually is deployed from Germany. When a unit not stationed in Germany is used then the European Activity Set, a depot about 15 miles from where i'm sitting, is tapped for vehicles. In addition most larger-scale NATO-level troop exercises the last two years were held "around" this multinational brigade, contributing up to about battalion-strength troops from European NATO members.
    On the South-East Flank there is also EAP which consists of four British Eurofighters providing a minimal interception capability for Romanian and Bulgarian skies (necessary as both countries have basically no modern aircraft).

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Here's hoping the Generals will start dragging their feet until Trump is out of office.

    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Will take months of planning and then some years to actually pull it off. So this time being a bureaucracy might actually work in favor of said bureaucracy.
    Reminds me of Larry Bond's novel Red Phoenix: After getting ordered to withdraw from South Korea, the US commanding general deliberately screws up the logistics of the departure so that US forces can stay a little longer in anticipation of a probable impending invasion.
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  4. #19
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    The article does talk about the agreement between Washington and Warsaw to increase the number of US forces in Poland. But it also goes into considerable detail about all the logistical, legal, political work to execute the movement of 12,000 troops out of Germany to Italy, Belgium and back to the States.

    Link:
    https://breakingdefense.com/2020/07/...s-special-ops/


    Last and key paragraph:
    The words of caution from the uniformed military about the proposed moves underscore the massive political, logistic, and physical lift the movement will entail. And as shown by the two-plus years of negotiations with Poland to move 1,000 more US troops there, forging new legal agreements with the Belgian and Italian governments will take time, with no guarantee that an agreement can be reached.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by looking4NSFS View Post
    The words of caution from the uniformed military about the proposed moves underscore the massive political, logistic, and physical lift the movement will entail.
    I remember when HQUSAREUR moved from Heidelberg to Wiesbaden. It took basically four years of planning and two years of execution along with over one billion USD. And that was for moving a few thousand men over a distance of 100 km between existing bases within the same country.

  6. #21
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    Kato,

    Does you infographic take into account US units rotating in for exercises?

    COVID 19 hit Defender 20 hard. I know I was supposed to spend April & May in Latvia in support and another of my teams was going to be a DPTA, Poland.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Does you infographic take into account US units rotating in for exercises?.
    The infographic is NATO's official placement map for EFP, i.e. for the four battlegroups agreed upon and supported by NATO and by the host nations, and for those troops that NATO considers an actual forward presence.

    Atlantic Resolve, currently with 2nd ABCT, 3rd ID rotated in, is per se not a NATO operation nor coordinated at that level, but just a US operation. Troops under Atlantic Resolve includes the US contributions to EFP and TFP to my knowledge, with additional (battalion-sized) forces rotationally stationed in primarily Germany and Poland. It should be noted that the armored troops among these largely are issued AFP equipment, i.e. the European Activity Set at Coleman, Mannheim, Germany - which is therefore not available for any further increase beyond that.
    Last edited by kato; 03 Aug 20, at 15:31.

  8. #23
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    Just released statement from Secretary of Defense


    IMMEDIATE RELEASE
    Secretary of Defense Statement on Completion of the U.S.-Poland Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement Negotiations
    AUG. 3, 2020
    The United States and Poland have completed negotiations on the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement (EDCA), building on our existing security cooperation and cementing our long-standing defense partnership.

    The EDCA reflects the shared vision outlined in the Joint Declarations signed by Presidents Donald J. Trump and Andrzej Duda in 2019. Specifically, it provides the required legal framework, infrastructure and equitable burden-sharing essential to deepening our defense cooperation.

    The EDCA will enable an increased enduring U.S. rotational presence of about 1,000 personnel, to include the forward elements of the U.S. Army’s V Corps headquarters and a Division headquarters, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities, and the infrastructure to support an armored brigade combat team and combat aviation brigade. This is in addition to the 4,500 U.S. personnel already on rotation in Poland.

    Alongside the recently announced European strategic force posture changes, the EDCA will enhance deterrence against Russia, strengthen NATO, reassure our Allies, and our forward presence in Poland on NATO’s eastern flank will improve our strategic and operational flexibility. We congratulate the negotiators on this important milestone for U.S.-Polish relations and our collective transatlantic security.

  9. #24
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    Phew, they at least managed to avoid the word "permanent" that was previously used (in the US) with regard to the planned agreement - and that would have violated the NATO-Russia Founding Act by some interpretation.

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    Maybe it's just me, but I did find humor in the verbiage "increased enduring U.S. rotational presence."

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    Quote Originally Posted by looking4NSFS View Post
    Maybe it's just me, but I did find humor in the verbiage "increased enduring U.S. rotational presence."
    Well I do know my office is working with 21st TSC to establish enduring rotational ASPs....
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
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  12. #27
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    Acknowledging up front that: "There is, for example, good reason to argue that it does nothing to strengthen NATO’s forward presence. Yet parts of the plan certainly do make good sense." This article goes into some of the operational details of why the consolidation is a viable course of action.

    Link:
    https://www.realcleardefense.com/art...er_115526.html

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