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Thread: Boris Johnson's Covid-19 mess.

  1. #1
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    Boris Johnson's Covid-19 mess.



    What?

    So I have not been able to keep up on this BS due to being incommunicado but it seems last Wednesday at PMQs (Prime Ministers Question Time) Boris Johnson said he would speak about his Covid-19 recovery plan last night. This was a bit shady from the start since Parliament is supposed to be informed and given the chance to discuss policy before it being enacted and a Sunday night is hardly prime time as most people are in normal circumstances preparing for the working week again.

    However apparently Bojo also recorded this message before meeting with Cabinet which understandably annoyed them as it effectively meant any policy input they may have was denied and that effectively this was rule by No 10 alone.

    So the PM gives this 'address' about his 'plan' which is really just a list a dreams along with some graphs supposed to impress people and make them think the Government might actually know what it's doing. If that was the desired effect it appears it failed massively as the confusion in this message was evident to all. So if you go work in construction or manufacturing go back to work but avoid public transport... What if have to take a train or a bus to get to work? Schools might reopen on a limited scale from June but what if you are a single parent and work in manufacturing/construction? Who's going to look after the children if you go back to work? In terms of a supposed statement of policy setting out a 'plan' from a British Government this is far and away the most incoherent babble I have seen in my life and I cannot think of a worse historical example either other than the Brexit slogans. There was no mention of figures or the data to justify a change even - just artificial 'levels' which may or may not have been reached. Nor is it clear why those flying into the UK must only now 'self isolate'; why not before and what has the 'r' got to do with it? It is literally incoherent on every level. One can imagine there must have been many construction/manufacturing employees wondering if they should go to work the next morning and if so how to do so. Given that this message was broadcast at 7pm local time on a Sunday evening few company offices will have been open. Presumably some hoped that the confusion would be cleared up with the '50 page plan' and statement in the House by the PM which were promised today.


    Meanwhile in the week another oversight first came to light when the Government slogan terminology changed from "Stay Home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives" to "Stay Alert, Control the Virus, Save Lives." What is one supposed to 'alert' against? An unseen virus? Possibly anyone not observing 'social distancing' should be reported to the police? Should a watch routine be implemented over night? It could mean anything. But the devolved authorities of Scotland and Wales said they were not buying this - they would stick with the prior advice "Stay home, protect the NHS, save lives" and thus would not be implementing the new 'plan' that Bojo incohently blustered about yesterday.


    Meanwhile apparently this morning Dominic Raab(id), theoretically the Foreign Secretary but who is now apparently also 'First Secretary' (presumably meaning he chaired he Cabinet while the PM was in hospital) did a tour of London breakfast TV and radio news shows in which he contradicted himself regarding the interpretation of Johnson's bluster about sitting in parks where No 10 later said you may also meet people from another household (contradicting Johnson by way of 'clarification'). Raab(id) apparently said on one programme that someone could meet their mother in a park as long as 'social distancing' were respected. Then apparently in another programme he said that it would okay for a person to meet both their mother and father in the park as long as social distancing rules were observed. This latter advice was then promtly rolled back by No 10 who said that Raab(id) had been 'mininterpreted'. So right now where policy stands on meeting your friend or your family outside, since presumbaly they should be visited due to 'social distancing', is unclear to say the least.


    Next came the '50 page document' which it turns out was actually 60 pages called "Our Plan to Rebuild: The UK Government's Covid-19 recovery plan"; https://assets.publishing.service.go...v2_WEB__1_.pdf

    This at least said that "go back to work" guidance was intended to start from Wednesday (13th May) rather than today which Johnson had not bothered to mention in his TV ramble. Yet it gives no details of how re-openign businesses are to implement sufficient safety standards or testing to stop any renewal of the spread of infection. If a business re-opens and an employee catches the virus at work - or on public transport on the way to work - they could theoretically be sued under health and safety at work regulations yet the Government has issued not one guideline as to what safety measures a single industry should try to implement. These details apparently will be released 'later this week'. Well when this week? Because you are telling them to go back to work on Wednesday.

    The whole document is just more long winded bluster; "As the UK recovers, the Government will ensure people with disabilities can have independent lives and are not marginalised..." But Johnson said "if" cases do increase again schools may be partially re-opened from June 1st in his incoherent TV babble. On the 'self isolation' of those arriving into the UK again no reason is given as to why this is only now to implemented when 100s of 1000s have been arriving previously but these rules will not apply to those arriving from Ireland and France... Why are they exempt? Not for clinical reasons one must imagine but no answer is to be found as to why a French citizen arriving in the UK need not 'self isolate' but a German must and this discriminatory policy is bound be challenged in court.

    So then Johnson addressed the House of Commons and blustered yet more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvTZhe9ZXWM and was rightly pulled apart by Sir Keir Starmer (who rises around 13:50) and is well worth watching. Starmer asks for "clarification" of these contradictions as no doubt do most British people and Johnson splutters about "Good solid British common sense."

    It is clear that the Johnson - for one cannot his Government since they were also excluded from signing off on this debacle - has no plan and has not spoken or coordinated with the devolved Government and that the UK is not even run by a Government or that the House of Commons can at present fulfill it's duty of oversight. The UK is run a by fool in fools clothing and this may explain why it has the highest number of deaths in Europe. Honestly I cannot think of a more bungled and incoherent policy programme in British history. It would a comedy if it did not cost lives.

  2. #2
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    Some UK media response to the shambles;


  3. #3
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    The UK is to continue 'furlough payments' upto the end of October apparently. This is a treasury scheme where employees temporarily layed off/furloughed are payed 80% of their wages by the Government upto (I think) £2500 per month thus saving them being sacked or their employers going broke.

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    Snapper how do you view the case of his advisor Mr Cummins ? He broke his own advice and govt rules and has been caught out with his excuses and definitions , or as we lesser mortals call them , LIES , so the msm would have us believe , and now K Starmer is calling for his resignation ! However he has not qouted the same for Kinnocks son , hypocracy abounds .

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    Laughable shambles from what I have read/seen/heard but then Cummings was a known liability from old - even before I left he was considered a 'security risk' by some and 'reckless' and other things which I won't repeat but you may imagine. The FCO was not a fan of his nor other people in other Ministries or so I was told. I thought it was a mistake when Johnson hired him given what I heard. Seems he thinks he is above the rules... well who'd have thought? Well those who told me about him.

    I saw his 'press conference' as well which I think is absolutely inexplicable. Firstly why is he given a platform to make a statement and answer questions? He is NOT a public employee. He is employed by the PM alone as an advisor (Spads the Civil Service calls them) so he answers to Johnson alone not to the public or reporters. Nor does his account add up - he drove for half an hour to some castle and back (so an hour in total) with his Wife and son to check if his eyes were upto driving back to London which he left because he was worried about his son? Who if they have problems with their vision goes for a drive with their partner and child? I would think that anyone who thought their vision might be impaired but who chose to test it by driving was at least prima facie guilty of reckless driving. Nor frankly is it believable that he could drive 520+ mile to his parents estate and back without filling up his car.

    Aside from that he has invented 'reasonable grounds' for acting as he did which are A. Untrue; he has family in London I am told and B. Invented as in 'added to'. I looked up the Government advice and it said if you think you have the lurgy stay at home. Yet when he thought his wife might have it he went back to work and then drove 260 miles so he could visit others of his family and that is actually what rule or guidance meant? But people were stopped from visiting dying relatives or attending funerals but in retrospect they are told they did not fully understand what it meant to be 'reasonable' and yet abide by the rule? So can a person now apply their own 'reasoned judgement' to the rules? They certainly could not in the first place "Stay at home". Not sure I would have understood that rule as meaning 'it is perfectly reasonable to drive 260 miles to be near you parents before doing so if your partner feels ill'. Beside which Cummings is not poor and if necessary could have hired payed childminders in London.

    So none of it really adds up to me including why himself was asked by Johnson to give his account. But then Johnson was always going to be 'omnishambles' and welcome to the pantomime.

    I had the opportunity to meeting Cummings once - was invited to some talk at which he was appearing but was busy. I was asked also if I wanted to meet Johnson while he was Foreign Secretary - after I had left the UK - and he visited Ukraine (once) but I had more important things to do and actually did not rate his intelligence or integrity.

    Johnson in my view was always a shallow showman. I went to private schools in England too and then Cambridge so I grew up with people like him. Most were good people as in any school class that anyone will have been in - good/indifferent/stupid and show offs and he is "show man". You can spot those types a mile away even at school. He did not go to the same schools or University as I but we had our own share. While I was trying to make a real point about something relevant to the lesson the 'joker' would make some witty remark and everyone s******. Fine I was a swot or whatever though I ran with my friends most of the illicit cigarette and alcohol trade that came into for a decent profit. They were funny and I got good exam results and made money. Who is doing better? He will fade as all these stuck up private school pseudo aristocracy boys do, the jokers of the Bullingdon Club too. His real place is as a jester to some tycoon innovator who has a vague interest in history which Boris may have read but failed to understand. All in all they are just 'public schoolboys' who learned nothing and still believe they can still get away with anything as they did at school and University. Johnson and Cummings, who is probably the more intelligent of the two, will accomplish nothing of benefit to the people of the UK - Cummings as a 'political strategist' is all based on lies for starters and though I am largely by heart - or was a Conservative - the forecast-ablely misguided policies and illegal ways they have gone about pushing their Brexit and Covid pandemic agenda's is inexplicable and revolting. They are from what I can I have seen/read and been informed running the country as a sort of school boys/University club where "that's alright old chap - he's one of us". Soon they are gone the better.
    Last edited by snapper; 26 May 20, at 18:22.

  6. #6

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    I note your sidestep reference my point of K Starmers refusal to villify S Kinnock and other labour MPs guilty of the same flouting of the "rules" I do however agree to your analogy of the PM .

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    I assure it was not a willing 'sidestep' but as I am ignornant or any mortal sins Kinnock Jnr or Senior may have recently committed I cannot speak about it. I would further note that is no Kinnock working in No 10 where such hypocritical rules and actions emanate. If a Kinnock wants to try flying from Beachy Head or diving under a train that is entirely upto them - good luck with it! Flying itself in no problem - it's only the landing procedure that causes problems for people without the help of a parachute or some other device. If No 10 indulges in similar idiocy during the time of a pandemic and when the UK is supposed to a trade deal with the UK's nearest neighbours then it is positively contrary to UKs best interests.

  8. #8

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    My point is your very for Starmer as he is the " adult" he called for Cummins head for flouting the lockdown rules ! But he said nothing of S Kinnock the liebore mp who travelled to party at poppa's birthday bash , and nothing said about other mp,s of his party who have flouted the "rules " , ahhhh well such is life in the world of politics .


    NEWS

    The high-profile figures who have breached lockdown restrictions
    Dominic Cummings isn't the only one flouting the government's lockdown rules

    SHARE
    BY PRESS ASSOCIATION, FREDDIE LYNNE

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson's senior aid Dominic Cummings(Image: Yui Mok/PA Wire)
    There are calls for Boris Johnson's senior advisor Dominic Cummings to resign after flouted the government's own lockdown laws when he drove to Durham in March.

    Cummins and his wife both apparently had symptoms of the virus when they made the trip with their son. They say they made the drive so that Cummin's family could help them while they isolated.


    Cummins isn't the first high-profile figure to have been caught out by the govenment's lockdown laws, and may who have been caught have since resigned from their jobs.

    0_British-Prime-Ministers-Chief-Advisor-Investigated-By-Police-For-Breaking-Lockdown-Rules.jpg
    Dominic Cummings and his wife Mary Wakefield leaving his home(Image: Hollie Adams/Getty Images)
    Scientist Professor Neil Ferguson, whose research helped usher in the lockdown, resigned from his role as a key Government adviser after admitting that he had undermined social distancing rules by reportedly meeting his “lover” at his home.


    Scotland Yard criticised his behaviour as “plainly disappointing” but ruled out issuing a fine because he “has taken responsibility” after resigning as a key Government adviser in the coronavirus response.

    Scotland’s chief medical officer, Dr Catherine Calderwood, resigned in April after twice breaking lockdown restrictions in order to visit her second home, which was located more than an hour away from her main residence in Edinburgh.




    READ MORE
    Success as 'first of their kind' micro-homes for rough sleepers go up in Cambridge
    Despite Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon backing Dr Calderwood to remain in her position, she ultimately decided to relinquish her role so as not to be a “distraction” from the Government’s social-distancing message.


    MOST READ



    Wildlife Trust's desperate plea after visitors trash Titichmarsh Nature Reserve
    The Housing, Communities and Local Government Secretary, Robert Jenrick , was forced to explain himself after travelling more than an hour to visit his parents despite warning people to remain at home.

    Mr Jenrick was also criticised for travelling 150 miles from his London property to his Herefordshire home from where he travelled to his parents in Shropshire.

    However, he defended his actions, saying he went to deliver food and medicine to his isolating parents.

    0_The-Government-Holds-Cross-Party-Meetings-To-Break-Brexit-Deadlock.jpg
    MP Stephen Kinnock(Image: Leon Neal/Getty Images)
    Stephen Kinnock , the MP for Aberavon in South Wales, was publicly shamed by police after travelling to London to celebrate his father’s birthday.

    After Mr Kinnock posted a photo on Twitter of himself practising social distancing with his parents outside their home, South
    Police replied: “We know celebrating your Dad’s birthday is a lovely thing to do, however this is not essential travel.


    "We all have our part to play in this, we urge you to comply with (lockdown) restrictions, they are in place to keep us all safe. Thank you.”
    Last edited by redadare; 02 Jun 20, at 11:37.

  9. #9
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    I am not "for Starmer" so much as anti BS artists.

    If Kinnock Jnr or Jenrick have broken the rules indeed the police should deal with them - like everyone else. But they, even if they are Labour MPs, are NOT employed by Starmer; they are MPs employed by their constituents in the end. If they were in the Shadow Cabinet certainly I would have hoped that Starmer had fired them but they were not in the shadow cabinet so what exactly is it that you would have him do? With Cummings he is directly employed by the PM and therefore answerable to him alone so when he is allowed to get away with making the rules up as he goes along it fundamentally undermined any idea that others needed to be serious about keeping the already contradictory rules that the Government was clearly not bothered when one of their own pal broke them.

    One person cheat's; ok fine him but not a big problem. No particular excess deaths
    The PM's chief advisor cheats and is allowed to get away with it; you have fundamentally undermined your own policy. Now you can expect others to ignore everything you say and will suffer more deaths as a result.

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    UK GDP down 20.4% in April; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53019360

    No EU trade agreement and the UK Government still swearing blind there will be no extension of EU trade talks. Seems like the Johnson government is intent on committing economic suicide.

  11. #11
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    UK debt now larger than the economy: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53104734 first time since 1963...

    But Brexit will fix all that if you close your eyes and believe a unicorn is coming right...?
    Last edited by snapper; 19 Jun 20, at 11:13.

  12. #12
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    So last Wednesday's Prime Ministers Question time in the House of Commons Johnson says he is "proud" of his Government's response to Covid 19. There were 359 Covid 19 deaths in the UK on that day compared to 330 in the rest of the entire EU. According to the Office of National Statistics there have been over 60,000 covid related deaths... In total known deaths the UK is 4th after only the US, Brazil and Muscovy all of which have 4 time or more the UK population.

    So what is Boris 'proud' of?

  13. #13
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    Still having teething problems a month in. Check back a month later where all these kinks will be ironed out.

    Am saying this is a self resolving problem for most states that have to do it.

    Will they write a followup article then contrasting the difference i wonder ?

    Covid 19: Where’s the strategy for testing? | BMJ | Jun 26 2020
    Last edited by Double Edge; 29 Jun 20, at 20:08.

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