Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Army Should Rid Itself Of Symbols Of Treason

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
    I was just thinking about the Navy. They have no installations that are named after people and they certainly have a fair amount of heros, From John Paul Jones onward. They are all named after their location pretty much.

    The Army names after people and not locations. Of course this predates me by 200 years but nonetheless curious.
    But the Navy does have....... ships. (person) USS Robert E Lee SSBN 601. (Home of the confederacy) USS Virginia BB 13, GCN 38, SSBN 774. (confederate battle victory) USS Chancellorsville CG 62.
    Navy Times article from 2017
    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...e-confederacy/

    The Lee decommissioned in 1983. The Jackson (yes, named after Stonewall Jackson) decommissioned in 1995, but all this is in the article.

    All this to say we are in the time we are in, and it is a transition time. Just as in 1918 the base built in Fayetteville NC was named after Bragg by those who thought it appropriate. Those who are against the statues coming down, the names being replaced, the history at best being regulated to museums (at worst..... forgotten) from their POV have concerns. Those who are for the changes have their own. The POVs are only irreconcilable because once the view is made public it becomes political and then said positions harden and cannot (for the most part) be changed because the accusation of being a "Flip Flopper" will follow a politician (or someone who posts on FB, or...... WAB) for the rest of their career. The hard truth of time marching on means that those who come after us are going to change everything anyway, as we are doing now, as the people in 1918 did then. Although I sincerely hope the Gov of Washington and the Mayor of Seattle do not lobby to change the name of JBLM to JB Raz Simone.

    Comment


    • #92
      One of the sub threads of "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman https://www.supersummary.com/the-forever-war/summary/ covers this subject in how it relates to the changing attitude towards sexuality thru time. In the case of this book "time" of the change is literally thousands of years. The protagonist has a very hard time adjusting to the changes happening around him and struggles to understand.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Mihais View Post
        Is about personification of evil,not really about actually being top evil.
        Still does not explain why the Pharaoh is top dog before Hitler. The Vikings and the Mongols scared the shit out of Europe while the Pharaoh was nothing more than a story.
        Chimo

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by astralis View Post
          true, Mao was more of a "can't make omelets without breaking eggs" sort of guy.

          but regardless, his omelet still took millions of eggs. and of those millions, the ones he very much deliberately wanted to break numbered in at -least- the hundreds of thousands.
          You forgot to say that his omelet sucked. Still Mao's deliberate death toll is nowhere near Hitler's.
          Chimo

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
            Still does not explain why the Pharaoh is top dog before Hitler. The Vikings and the Mongols scared the shit out of Europe while the Pharaoh was nothing more than a story.
            A story people heard since they were 4 years old every few Sundays in the Church or when they re-read the Bible.As an anecdote,my grand-grandma was 90+ when I visited Egypt.She advised me before going there to avoid the Nile,since it was so full of crocodiles.That was funny and touching at the same time,since the place changed a bit since infant Moses got thrown there in a basket.
            The last time Tatars tried their stuff was 300 years ago and nobody but buffs know that,while the vikings are those cool guys in the movies.Besides,in the East they got beaten badly.

            As for Hitler,the man is mythologized beyond any semblance to reality.In the public speech and thought.He just became an adjective and an insult.Stalin and Mao are at least perceived as political figures.
            Public Perception has nothing to do with objective truth,but at the same time is the reality and truth in public life.Gotta work with and around it.
            Since we are at this,what do the Chinese have that compares to Western Information Ops or the Russian Reflexive control theory?
            Those who know don't speak
            He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Mihais View Post
              Since we are at this,what do the Chinese have that compares to Western Information Ops or the Russian Reflexive control theory?
              Bribes. Money or lives. What is the easiest way to take a castle? A donkey loaded with gold. What's the 2nd easiest way to take a castle? Scare the shit out of them of what you did to the last castle.
              Chimo

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by looking4NSFS View Post
                But the Navy does have....... ships. (person) USS Robert E Lee SSBN 601. (Home of the confederacy) USS Virginia BB 13, GCN 38, SSBN 774. (confederate battle victory) USS Chancellorsville CG 62.
                Navy Times article from 2017
                https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...e-confederacy/

                The Lee decommissioned in 1983. The Jackson (yes, named after Stonewall Jackson) decommissioned in 1995, but all this is in the article.
                You can't honestly include Virginia in that list. For starters, Alabama held the first capital of the CSA. Also if there was a home or "cradle" of the Confederacy, it's South Carolina. And that point, you might as well not name any ship after a former state of the CSA.

                But yeah, Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson shouldn't make comebacks as names of US Navy warships.

                The fact that they were in the first place is rather ridiculous.
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                  I was just thinking about the Navy. They have no installations that are named after people.
                  They did have at least one, NAS Cecil Field (closed in 1999) was named in honor of Commander Henry Barton Cecil, USN
                  “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    NAS Whiting Field- Named after Capt Kenneth Whiting Commander of the 1st Naval Air Unit in WW1. Naval Aviator #16 and the last to take flight training from Orval Wright. Considered the "Father of Aircraft Carriers"

                    Comment


                    • NAS Moffet Field now known as Moffett Federal Airfield, in the SF Bay area.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                        Please ask a black man from the south what he thinks of Jefferson Davis and the confederacy. The confederate flag is to Black Americans as the Nazi flag is to Jews. The fact that they are not viewed as evil and have their statues in prominent locations in southern cities is exactly the problem. Southerners have tried to whitewash their crimes with the Lost Cause and Southern Pride narrative. That needs to be called out for the absolute BS that it is. Pulling down the statues is part of that.
                        RUMINT says you can buy a healthy black slave for 200$ in Lybia these days.That is a very good bussiness,compared to what the US market was 170 years ago.https://www.measuringworth.com/slavery.php
                        I presume since they're so cheap and the resale value is probably lower that they're getting treated like consumables.The American ones at least would have been fed and clothed.There you go,start a crusade.
                        Those who know don't speak
                        He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                        Comment


                        • ^ this is called deflection.

                          Americans are dealing with an American issue, no more, no less.
                          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                          Comment


                          • Nope.Context.And with what issue REALLY are you dealing?

                            You know,CW ended only 155 years ago.Those politics and symbols are just history.
                            Those who know don't speak
                            He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by looking4NSFS View Post
                              But the Navy does have....... ships. (person) USS Robert E Lee SSBN 601. (Home of the confederacy) USS Virginia BB 13, GCN 38, SSBN 774. (confederate battle victory) USS Chancellorsville CG 62.
                              Expanding on what Tophatter said, every battleship in the US Navy has been named for a state, other than the USS Kearsage.

                              A cursory check shows that Hawaii, Alaska, and Montana are the only three states that do not have a battleship named after them. 47 states did have a battleship named for them.
                              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                                Nope.Context.And with what issue REALLY are you dealing?

                                You know,CW ended only 155 years ago.Those politics and symbols are just history.
                                Like Nazi symbols and flags used by Neo-Nazis, Confederate symbols and flags have been continued to be very actively used to the present day as a means to intimidate and during the commission of racist violence.

                                When a group of guys wearing white robes and white pointed hoods show up at a black man's house and burn a wooden cross on his front lawn while waving a Confederate flag, or marching through Charlottesville or any other city waving it, they're not using that flag for historical purposes.

                                Given that the states the incorporated the Confederate battle and national flags into their state flags pursued a policy of segregation, disenfranchisement, and oppression of the black population in their states, incorporating Confederate symbols into their flag could be seen as a way of instilling into their black population the fact that "we're in control, know your place".

                                It's not as if these Confederate symbols were incorporated into state flags, seals, and other state symbols purely for historical reasons. The main reason, I believe, was to send a message, and not a good one.
                                Last edited by Ironduke; 14 Jun 20,, 17:34.
                                "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X