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The Army Should Rid Itself Of Symbols Of Treason

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    No Sir.

    Early war before the US forces gained experience....okay. But by midwar that no longer applied. And what did his Ride Around McClellan accomplish in 1862? Nothing. McClellan still got to the gates of Richmond. Same for Gettysburg in 1863. Union cavalry found the enemy first and defined the decisive terrain for the fight.

    He failed to gain any usable intelligence for Lee from Gettysburg onward. He failed to find the entire Union Vth Corps at Bristoe Station resulting in Hill's Corps being smashed. He failed to detect the VIth Corps preparations to attack at Rappahanock Station which resulted in Lee losing almost 2 brigades.

    If you want an example which the US followed from mid-1863 onward you need to look at Phil Sheridan. His employment of the AOP's Cavalry Corps in the Valley 64 and Petersburg 65 was how Cavalry needed to fight.

    And the best use of a behind the lines of cavalry was by Benjamin Grierson's brilliant campaign by his brigade in support of the Vicksburg Campaign. It had a huge impact on the outcome of that campaign.
    Sir,point taken,but Turner Ashby and Forrest do deserve plenty of credit.Ashby for screening Jackson,recon and counter recon(though not perfect).
    As for Forrest,the Union got lucky the Confederacy did not used his mobile warfare capabilities to its fullest.
    Having a huge space at its disposal and failing to do a Russia on Napoleon always struck me as a huge failure of thinking according to (military) fashion.
    Last edited by Mihais; 12 Jun 20,, 16:23.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Mihais View Post
      No offense,but this is not inclusive,with a hint of possible racism.Only dead white dudes,that were also racists and insensitive towards POC's,Jews and other minorities.
      If you've got something of substance to contribute, great. Otherwise take your facetious trolling elsewhere.
      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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      • #63
        Well,you guys started a massive trolling campaign with this charade.For 100 plus years serious people did serious things at Bragg.Never heard black paratroopers complaining about it.Never heard any infantryman complaining about Benning either.But all of a sudden sleep is lost because of that.
        Plus,the freedom fighters are joining the likes of Taliban and ISIS with their statues destruction.That in itself is no big deal.Idiots like those mobs are prone to that.What should be to some shocking is seeing otherwise intelligent and reasonable people supporting this idiocy.Is not actially shocking because thecsame characters historically did nothing but finding excuses both for the villains and their own inaction.
        FFS,Seattle has statues of Lenin.Veterans of Korea and Vietnam still don’t suffer heart attacks because of that.

        Your institutions ban books,movies,unperson historical characters and you stand idle,just because.
        That will surely solve the problems of the black community.Keep up.Just don’t be too surprised if Lee will get a statue in Seattle in 15 years.Because experience shows that banning culture is never the end,but the start.Was the same in ancient China,modern China,Russia,Spain and a few dozens more places.
        Those who know don't speak
        He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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        • #64
          I get it. Statute + traitor = culture

          I never knew. Definitely need more math.

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          • #65
            Berlin needs statues of Hitler and Göring at Brandenburg gate. Can't forget the culture and history you know. People might forget all about the Nazis without statues like that.

            And yeah the gilded statue of King George III in NYC needs to be brought back! I mean the history, you know. Might just forget it all.
            Last edited by Firestorm; 12 Jun 20,, 18:25.

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            • #66
              Monuments are also left standing lest we forget; Auschwitz.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                Well,you guys started a massive trolling campaign with this charade.
                No, sorry, that's not how this works. You don't respond with a "whataboutism" when you're told to stop trolling.
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by snapper View Post
                  Monuments are also left standing lest we forget; Auschwitz.
                  Statues are to memorialize. That is their only purpose.

                  Auschwitz is not a monument anymore than Gettysburg. It is a place, a location, hallowed ground so to speak. One goes to reflect on the evil man has inflicted upon man. I've been to Omaha Beach, Gettysburg, Auschwitz and Dachau. What I felt crossing through the gates were the ghosts of people who fought or were caught there and died. Very hard to put into words but definitely a very different feeling from what I feel looking at a statue.

                  Do more walking of hallowed ground and less looking at statues.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                    I get it. Statute + traitor = culture

                    I never knew. Definitely need more math.
                    They moved to Columbus.Keep yourself up to date,man.

                    Yep.Is history of the place and the people that inhabit the place.History is part of culture.You also need new math https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1166672.pdf

                    After you read a bit of Mark Twain.He might have wrote it ''statue'',but I cannot be sure.English is not my first language.

                    The obtusity is this.Grant,Lincoln and the rest understood that pushing it too hard meant other hundreds of thousands of more deaths,if the conventional war developed into an insurgency.The likes of Lee and Longstreet understood it as well and worked the rest of their lives to strengthen the American Union.
                    Veterans of both sides met in the 1930's at Gettysburg.For some reason,they had a party instead of fighting with crutches.By 1918 when Fort Bragg was started,there were enough veterans of the Union alive.Strangely,I never heard of a riot against the Army's decision.Might have been,though I doubt it.
                    Sad to tell you,but you're being duped these days.I have to ask the good Colonel how Reflexive Control is being called in Mandarin.I only know how it's named in Russian.
                    Those who know don't speak
                    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                    • #70
                      TH,that's not whataboutism,though I get what you mean.Is vibing with the Zeitgeist.Spirit of the times.Btw,I was quite serious.You WILL be called racist for naming Grant,Sherman and Sheridan.Just wait a few more years.
                      Those who know don't speak
                      He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                        TH,that's not whataboutism,though I get what you mean.Is vibing with the Zeitgeist.Spirit of the times.Btw,I was quite serious.You WILL be called racist for naming Grant,Sherman and Sheridan.Just wait a few more years.
                        You think I don't know what a whataboutism is or what one looks like? Just drop it, and this line of bullshit of yours.
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                          I get it. Statute + traitor = culture

                          I never knew. Definitely need more math.
                          Well, yeah, it's definitely a culture, and an identity. That's why it is being attacked. And understandably this thread STARTED as being about the army, but obviously beyond it now...I am not Southern and do not really have a dog in the hunt or a say in what goes into the Southern identity.

                          Berlin needs statues of Hitler and Göring at Brandenburg gate. Can't forget the culture and history you know. People might forget all about the Nazis without statues like that.

                          And yeah the gilded statue of King George III in NYC needs to be brought back! I mean the history, you know. Might just forget it all.
                          Not everyone is Hitler. Even Stalin and Mao aren't Hitler.
                          But there are definitely some statutes of Genghis Khan you can go try to pull down.
                          "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                            Not everyone is Hitler. Even Stalin and Mao aren't Hitler.
                            You're right, Hitler was a bush league amateur compared to Stalin and Mao.
                            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                              Well, yeah, it's definitely a culture, and an identity. That's why it is being attacked. And understandably this thread STARTED as being about the army, but obviously beyond it now...I am not Southern and do not really have a dog in the hunt or a say in what goes into the Southern identity.


                              Not everyone is Hitler. Even Stalin and Mao aren't Hitler.
                              But there are definitely some statutes of Genghis Khan you can go try to pull down.
                              The argument is the same right? Apparently the statues are needed because otherwise you are erasing history and culture. Apparently the only way people remember history is with statues.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                                You're right, Hitler was a bush league amateur compared to Stalin and Mao.
                                Stalin I can see. He beaten Hitler. But Mao? Mao's major death tolls was through incompetence and his self delusion of grandeur. Hitler imposed massive deaths through policy. Hitler would have eaten Mao for breakfrast.
                                Chimo

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