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COVID-2019 in America, effect on politics and economy
not Trump's place to advocate for unproven drugs with serious side effects. there's already reports of people poisoning themselves because they don't know any better.
Yeah maybe these people should avoid downing aquarium cleaner and checking more carefully ?
The ingredient list might sound like it has it but it ain't the same thing.
As Astralis said, the 10 is an advisory. We have seen large numbers of people this past weekend ignoring this advice and gathering at church.
And with this being Holy Week, the most holy week on the Christian calendar, there is going to continue to be gatherings which place people at risk of exposure and therefore, continue the spread.
Yeah easter is going to be a problem. This is what you don't want. Gregarious people . That is when the exponentials do their thing.
Mean to tell me you really cannot ask people to pray from home ? is that so much to ask for to protect one's community.
This is as obstinate as a group of fundamentalists we had to deal with recently. Splashed their behaviour all over the media to shame them. Their God decides whether they die or not !!
We're caning people who persist with praying in mosques in India.
Prohibit the gatherings and you avoid a shelter in place policy
Allow them and you make the latter more probable.
Wuhan style. That means cannot get out of your front gate.
Does not have to be this way.
Sweden, Taiwan, Japan and even most of China did not go through this.
i agree, that's why i said it's not going to be that high overall. however, given the current closed case ratio and assuming it remains steady -- and it has, roughly, over the last few weeks-- you're still looking at 100,000-300,000 dead Americans in a month.
that's why Trump put out those figures-- 100,000-240,000 dead Americans even with mitigation factors. I suspect we're going to be at the higher end because state implementation of mitigation has been spotty.
Pence said in a CNN interview that White House projections of 100,000 to 240,000 deaths were guided by data from Italy, the first Western nation with a large outbreak.
“They call it modeling … where they look at what’s happened around the world,” Pence said. “We think Italy may be the most comparable area to the United States at this point.”
Really Pence ?!?
Italians eat real Parmesan, Americans don't
By that yard stick i can say Italy is not comparable to the US because the reasoning seems about as absurd.
In February, Italy became the first European country with a large number of COVID-19 cases. Lockdowns of towns in northern Italy failed to prevent a large-scale outbreak, with more than 105,000 cases and more than 12,000 deaths as of Wednesday.
Many US states closed non-essential businesses last month, replicating policies that Italy imposed nationwide.
What got the Italians into trouble was half measures and a coalition govt that refused to listen to its governors who wanted a lock down a month earlier. The ones in the north wanted to shut down the Milan region but Rome thought they were being xenophobic, economically reckless and unduly alarmist.
Which governor has faced this kind of criticism in the US yet ?
This is a worst case scenario. Prepare for it by all means and if saying so enables resources for it then great but i remain sceptical.
Which governor has faced this kind of criticism in the US yet ?
Florida. Georgia. Alabama.
I wonder what the commonality is.......
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
Typical anti-science Republican governors lining up to get Trump's dick in their mouth?
Oh...that was a rhetorical question wasn't it.
“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
Am with Trump here, avoid these unnecessary arguments and deal with bigger things.
Go ask the front line fighters in NYC & Seattle what they think about hydroxychloroquine. Are they taking it ? are they also prescribing it for their families. What for.
All anecdotal which no one disputes but there isn't time to do RCT's right now. To get FDA clearance. It's making do with what you have and getting on with it. And if it saves lives of your front line fighters then great.
The downside is people who also need that drug for other ailments will have a harder time getting it.
Trump is trying to get some factory going which closed down in West Virginia that made that drug for the world in the good old days.
There is another one callled rendesavir by Gilead science, which has shown promise in therapeutic treatments.
You sound like trump. You are throwing around "shown promise in therapeutic treatments" when the drug hasn't yet. It was developed to treat ebola and then was found to be less effective than other treatments. It was supplied to one patient in Washington who was said to have recovered the next day. That is not proof but merely anecdotal. Chinese medical researchers said it had fairly good inhibitory effects when combined with hydroxychloroquine and favipiravir. This is obviously where Trump got his "I heard this stuff works" line. Well no it doesn't work as it has not been proven through clinical testing. In any other field this would be called a rumor or scuttlebutt.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson has been moved to intensive care in hospital after his coronavirus symptoms "worsened", Downing Street has said.
Mr Johnson has asked Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab to deputise "where necessary", a spokesman added.
The prime minister, 55, was admitted to St Thomas' Hospital in London with "persistent symptoms" on Sunday.
The spokesman said he was moved on the advice of his medical team and is receiving "excellent care".
A statement read: "Since Sunday evening, the prime minister has been under the care of doctors at St Thomas' Hospital, in London, after being admitted with persistent symptoms of coronavirus.
"Over the course of this afternoon, the condition of the prime minister has worsened and, on the advice of his medical team, he has been moved to the intensive care unit at the hospital."
It continued: "The PM is receiving excellent care, and thanks all NHS staff for their hard work and dedication."
You are throwing around "shown promise in therapeutic treatments" when the drug hasn't yet. It was developed to treat ebola and then was found to be less effective than other treatments.
ok, so you are objecting to Trump promoting this drug as if its some wonder cure.
People will have a hard time getting hold of any. I think all the stock has been swept up by the govt already and they want more.
It was supplied to one patient in Washington who was said to have recovered the next day. That is not proof but merely anecdotal. Chinese medical researchers said it had fairly good inhibitory effects when combined with hydroxychloroquine and favipiravir. This is obviously where Trump got his "I heard this stuff works" line. Well no it doesn't work as it has not been proven through clinical testing. In any other field this would be called a rumor or scuttlebutt.
I'm not disputing the evidence is anecdotal. Am pointing out what people in the field are using.
French doctors have said similar.
The Indian health dept has reserved that same drug for doctors & nurses and people who have to look after a C19 patient at home Nobody else will get it
If it has inhibitory effects then administering to front line workers seems appropriate. If it decreases their chances of getting infected.
I don't know what the benefits of giving it to some one that already has the virus will be. To slow progression perhaps.
Some will respond better than others and if that is the case try something else.
He shook hands with C19 patients when he visited them in hospital. Despite his ministers pleas not to do so and at least wash his hands after. How many more in the cabinet has he infected now i wonder. The British Health minister is out as well.
Like how they show cases by Zip code there. Gives an idea where to avoid unless yours is a troubled one : )
I see your point with the FL governor closing schools, bars & clubs but keeping beaches open. This is a half measure. The contrast with that paddle boarder in CA being chased by 2 boats could not be more striking.
GA's governor closes businesses, issues a shelter at home order but then goes on to re-open beaches. So there is a tension here between governor and state officials. He's thinking of the local economy and letting people be responsible.
I'm conflicted with these two, otoh they aren't shutting down everything but at the same time i feel a bit nervous because it depends on people, all people being careful. If wearing masks were to become mandatory in these two states i'd feel more confident.
The contrast is the starkest in five states — Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota and South Dakota — where there are no such orders in place, either in major cities or statewide. Another four had partial restrictions issued locally in certain cities or counties.
Health experts warn that the coronavirus can easily exploit any gaps in a state-by-state patchwork of social distancing in the country, where the death toll climbed past 6,600 on Friday.
Some of those states have low number of cases. They don't see the need to act.
“I can’t lock the state down,” said Gov. Kim Reynolds of Iowa, which has recorded more than 600 confirmed cases and at least 11 deaths. “People also have to be responsible for themselves.”
Can't ? you mean won't.
For many conservative governors who believe strongly in small government and personal responsibility, the prospect of mandatory stay-at-home orders is anathema and they rejected what they called a catchall approach that could wreck their states’ economies. Though governors issuing the orders elsewhere have spanned the political spectrum, with some Republican governors emerging as early and strong advocates, the remaining holdout states are all Republican-led.
Other states with partial restrictions in cities or counties, but no statewide orders, included Oklahoma, South Carolina, Utah and Wyoming.
“Some will naturally say, why did you wait so long?” Gov. Kay Ivey of Alabama said. “Others will say, why now?” She said she had sought balanced measures that “would look out for people’s safety while keeping government from choking the life out of business and commerce.”
In many of the holdout states — largely rural, with far fewer cases than the hardest-hit regions like New York City — residents said they were already social distancing, even without formal orders.
Still, some feared the lack of clear instructions could leave dangerous gaps.
“If we don’t get some clear directive from our governor, people will begin to rationalize reasons for getting together: ‘It’s not that bad. I see them anyway at the store,’” said Nancy DeBoer, a nurse in Brookings, S.D., home to South Dakota State University. “It’s our governor’s responsibility to show some leadership.”
Gov. Asa Hutchinson of Arkansas said in an interview that the typical stay-at-home order was a misleading “illusion” because it includes so many exemptions allowing people to go out in public, such as for groceries or exercise. He said Arkansas had taken “very aggressive measures,” and said ordering people to stay at home would simply leave thousands jobless.
Wow, so there is a chance for cases to rise by a bit. What will these governors do then ? go for herd immunity ?
What do the people do ? become more responsible because they are being treated like adults
“You end up with some self-governance,” said Michael Stepp, the owner of a tap room and coffee spot in O’Neill, Neb., who said he did not think a statewide order is needed because most residents, like himself, are largely staying home anyway.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out. The states that were proactive over those that let their own people decide.
If you think US is like Italy, then you think the US is fcuked.
if you think maybe not like Italy, then does not have to be that way.
IE in the US, which lagged on testing (and we still do, although it's gotten significantly better), we've done 1.4 million tests as of April 3 and we had ~270,000 positive cases back then (up to 330K today, jesus).
so, most people tested turn out NOT to be infected. thankfully it's looking like we don't have this massive pool of sick people that we don't know about -- the current level of transmission is bad enough.
One way of interpreting the high rate of negatives is your doctors are being super cautious. If there is even a low suspicion of being infected they are testing people.
Prudent. If the tests are reliable then chances of releasing infected due to false negative is low.
ok, so you are objecting to Trump promoting this drug as if its some wonder cure.
People will have a hard time getting hold of any. I think all the stock has been swept up by the govt already and they want more.
Trump is pushing this drug because he’s been buying it. That means some or all of the following:
He’s staked his ego as well as the taxpayers’ money on this drug, and doesn’t want to look foolish by buying up something that doesn’t work.
He hopes to control the supply of the first drug known to work in order to squeeze state governors on this like he’s squeezing them on ventilators and PPE.
Somehow, somewhere, Jared Kushner sees a way to make money off the federal (“our”) stockpile of this drug.
Trump thinks this is somehow going to magically re-elect him come November third, because that’s what this is really all about…
“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
If you think US is like Italy, then you think the US is fcuked.
if you think maybe not like Italy, then does not have to be that way.
this is what i mean by patchwork. there are some states with great protocol -- like California and Washington, for instance.
however, even these states will be vulnerable when the poorly prepared states begin to suffer en masse and cases explode there.
so the US as a whole is vulnerable in that regards, and that's part of the reason why the US is now the world epicenter for COVID.
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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