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  • as I said, the President has an important role but not the only one. and he dorked up, and is dorking up, that role.

    I talked about the -minimal- stuff a President can do, which Trump hasn't done.

    there's also the -average- stuff a President can do, like using the power of the executive branch to coordinate between states, help formulate an international response, etc.

    then there's also the -exceptional- stuff, which would take significant leadership ability -- for instance, like changing laws/social net systems to ensure that we actually have a system where people aren't forced to go back to work just so they don't starve.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    • Originally posted by astralis View Post
      as I said, the President has an important role but not the only one. and he dorked up, and is dorking up, that role.

      I talked about the -minimal- stuff a President can do, which Trump hasn't done.

      there's also the -average- stuff a President can do, like using the power of the executive branch to coordinate between states, help formulate an international response, etc.

      then there's also the -exceptional- stuff, which would take significant leadership ability -- for instance, like changing laws/social net systems to ensure that we actually have a system where people aren't forced to go back to work just so they don't starve.
      Imagine....just imagine....if Trump hadn't done anything but (as you mentioned) NOT spread disinformation. We would STILL be ahead of where we're at now.

      Not showing a shred of proactive leadership is one thing. Actively pushing back and stonewalling efforts by state and federal governments to contain COVID is absolutely CRIMINAL.

      "Slow down the testing...."

      Un-fucking-believable. What kind of maniac would even suggest such a thing?

      This story is still being written all right.
      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

      Comment


      • And what we are seeing is not the second wave....it's a resurgence of the 1st wave because some peckerheads couldn't handle basic public health preventative measures.


        We shot a basic part of public health work right in the ass with this one.

        https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/healt...day/index.html


        While the mortality rate is not great with COVID, it is 130,000 deaths which were preventable.

        And who knows how it will morph by the time the second wave gets here.

        And if you survive there is quite a bit of damage to you. And filling up college campuses isn't going to help things....

        Just one personal account....

        https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/healt...ntl/index.html
        Last edited by Albany Rifles; 07 Jul 20,, 18:38.
        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
        Mark Twain

        Comment


        • One of the things I learned in healthcare public policy is that prevention isn’t sexy enough for politicians. Can’t name a dip in infections after the Senator who pushed it through, but every Congress Critter can name a hospital after his favorite donor. You want money for equipment? My buddy Mega Meds can get us a sweet deal.

          Doctors and nurses salaries? Testing procedures? So sorry ...
          Trust me?
          I'm an economist!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by astralis View Post
            as I said, the President has an important role but not the only one. and he dorked up, and is dorking up, that role.

            I talked about the -minimal- stuff a President can do, which Trump hasn't done.

            there's also the -average- stuff a President can do, like using the power of the executive branch to coordinate between states, help formulate an international response, etc.

            then there's also the -exceptional- stuff, which would take significant leadership ability -- for instance, like changing laws/social net systems to ensure that we actually have a system where people aren't forced to go back to work just so they don't starve.
            My personal issue is a total lack of accountability towards any other actor, many of which have demonstrably greater control over the spread and impact of the disease. Go ahead, blame Trump. Viruses don't care. There will be another a coronavirus out break 10, 20, 30, and 40 years from now, and one of them may be nasty and end up killing another 200k Americans, and it will not be directly due to the person inside 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

            I won't be happy about it, just like I won't be happy with the rest of the garbage coming down the pipeline, but I can suitably insulate myself from the stupidity of other people. And thankfully my information sources have proven themselves quite useful.
            "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DOR View Post
              That's a nice list of what a competent, honest, thoughtful, intelligent political leader could do.

              The question, however, was "what can Trump do?"
              Pence is the one looking after this. He's the one who has to deliver.

              Kinda like Premier Li while XJP does other stuff.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                for the first, here's an example of what I mean.

                from today's NYT.

                Phoenix has a testing crisis, and FEMA refuses to help, the mayor says.
                Mayor Kate Gallego of Phoenix said on Sunday that with cases and death counts soaring in Arizona, testing sites in her city and surrounding Maricopa County are overwhelmed, but the Federal Emergency Management Agency has rebuffed her pleas for help.

                She raised the issue on the ABC program “This Week,” saying that it “feels like they’re declaring victory while we’re in crisis mode.”

                In an interview later in the day, Ms. Gallego, a Democrat, said she had been trying since April to get more testing resources for Phoenix, both from FEMA and from the private sector. But testing, she says, remains woefully inadequate, especially for those who lack health insurance.

                “We are the largest city not to have received this type of investment,” Ms. Gallego said, noting that FEMA had set up testing sites in Houston, Los Angeles and elsewhere. “And you can see it in the increasing rate of positives.”
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                More than 20 percent of tests in Arizona are coming back positive now, she said. “Public health officials tell me that when you’re doing the appropriate amount of testing, it should be around 2 percent,” she said.

                An aide to the mayor said that FEMA had responded to the city’s most recent request by saying the agency was “getting out of the testing business.” Maricopa County officials were told the same thing when they asked FEMA for help, the mayor said.

                Cases have doubled in Arizona in recent weeks; more than 3,400 new cases were announced Sunday. The state marked a record on Saturday with 3,182 confirmed and suspected virus hospitalizations.

                “I hope they understand what it’s like out here,” Mayor Gallego said. “I wish I could have the president with me as people fill their cars with gas so they can wait in lines for eight hours, while they’re sick and it’s 110 degrees outside,” to get a test.

                “This is not just a Phoenix problem,” she said. “I think many communities and people across both parties would like to see the federal government play a role.”

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                Vice President Mike Pence, who visited Phoenix on Wednesday, said last week that testing was readily available to anyone in the country who needed it. His office referred questions to FEMA, which did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

                “We do have one hopeful note,” Ms. Gallego said Sunday afternoon. After she raised the issue on TV, she said, “The White House reached out and said they’re interested in more information, and would try to see what they can do.”
                There isn't a shortage of test kits, the question is who pays for the testing ? : (

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  Pence is the one looking after this. He's the one who has to deliver.

                  Kinda like Premier Li while XJP does other stuff.
                  That’s not how governing actually works, in either country.
                  Trust me?
                  I'm an economist!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                    That’s not how governing actually works, in either country.
                    Who is the point man in either country for this crisis ?

                    Buck stops with them

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                      Who is the point man in either country for this crisis ?

                      Buck stops with them
                      That’s not how governing actually works, in either country.
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        Pence is the one looking after this. He's the one who has to deliver.

                        Kinda like Premier Li while XJP does other stuff.
                        You are dead wrong. In such a crisis a real President, a real man, takes charge of the situation himself. Remember Truman's desk sign "The Buck (not AR) Stops Here" which meant don't pass the buck around? Trump, being his typical self has always passed the buck down to subordinates so if they fail he blames them. If they succeed he takes all the credit. Trump is not a real President. Worst of al he is not a real man.

                        Comment


                        • What is Pence's role & responsibility in this crisis ?

                          In the briefings Trump would let him talk about what had been done. He was the one giving progress reports and at times allowing others space to speak as well.

                          Trump was overseeing them.

                          Now whether Trump should take a more pro-active role is desirable. I'm not debating that.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                            What is Pence's role & responsibility in this crisis ?
                            What his role has always been, if you'd bothered to pay attention: Puppet, fall guy, boot-licker.

                            Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                            In the briefings Trump would let him talk about what had been done. He was the one giving progress reports and at times allowing others space to speak as well.

                            Trump was overseeing them.
                            Trump couldn't oversee a lemonade stand. Or haven't you noticed by now.
                            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                            Comment


                            • Op-Ed: As COVID Cases Top 3 million, It's Past Time To End The Catastrophic Trump Presidency
                              By Ira Shapiro

                              Our country is living through a tragedy of unthinkable magnitude.

                              COVID-19 has hammered the world, but America — with 4.25% of the world’s population — has suffered a quarter of its cases and fatalities.

                              Other developed nations, such as Italy, Spain, France and the United Kingdom, have suffered greatly but have now managed to control the spread of the virus. Here, though we have the world’s most advanced economy and medical and scientific capabilities, COVID continues to run rampant. On Wednesday, led by surges in Texas, Florida, Arizona and California, America officially passed 3 million cases.

                              It is no secret why. America’s tragedy results from the largest failure of presidential leadership in our history. Donald Trump threw out the pandemic response playbooks left by his predecessors; weakened the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; refused to acknowledge the seriousness of the virus; promised its early disappearance; fantasized about miracle cures; and then, after a series of uninformed television briefings, chose to declare victory and pronounce the problem over.

                              He defied the warnings of public health experts and showed contempt for social distancing and wearing masks. He has created misunderstandings and sowed division by encouraging Americans to rebel against the reasonable public health measures put in place by their governors and mayors. He's trying to end insurance coverage for millions, and on Tuesday, as America set a record for new daily cases, he began to officially withdraw the United States from the World Health Organization.


                              An unhinged leader at a time of crisis

                              If that record of misjudgment, negligence, incompetence and lying was not enough, in his recent rallies in Tulsa and Phoenix, Trump knowingly exposed thousands of Americans to disease and death so that he could receive their applause. He acts more like the leader of an apocalyptic cult than a president.

                              America faces the gravest possible challenge, with an increasingly unhinged leader. Along with most other Americans, I have tried to comfort myself knowing that the election is coming and that Trump is virtually certain to be defeated. But it will be more than six months until former Vice President Joe Biden is sworn in as president. Having seen the past six months, it is frightening to contemplate how much more damage Trump would do in his final six.

                              We are not bound to stand by while thousands of Americans get sick and die, and our country goes down the drain. To paraphrase Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson, the Constitution is not a "suicide pact."

                              A bipartisan stand by Congress could put pressure on Trump to leave office, but there is no reason to believe that Senate Republicans, even after disgracing themselves in the impeachment trial, will break with Trump in an election year. The 25th Amendment specifies how the Cabinet can remove a president whose disability makes him incapable of doing his job, but a Cabinet led by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Attorney General William Barr will not put “country first” any time soon.

                              Governors could end Trump tragedy

                              One group of Americans has the experience, credibility and stature to end this catastrophic presidency literally killing America. The nation’s governors, 26 Republicans and 24 Democrats, have been on the front lines leading the fight against the virus. Struggling to build hospital capacity, find personal protective equipment and make agonizing decisions about closing and reopening in the absence of clear federal guidance, the governors know better than anyone how completely Trump has failed the country and undermined their efforts to contain the virus.

                              Many governors have distinguished themselves; some who have followed the president and downplayed the virus have learned a bitter lesson. Their astronomical approval ratings show that they have earned the admiration and respect of their people for their unstinting efforts to deal with this unprecedented crisis. The National Governors Association, led by Republican Chairman Larry Hogan of Maryland and Democratic Vice Chairman Andrew Cuomo of New York, should call for Trump to resign.

                              I recognize that such an action seems unlikely. The Republicans are constrained by party loyalties, and Republicans and Democrats alike will worry about federal aid and retaliation from a vindictive president. But the governors are both patriots and practical people, and they understand the stakes. If Hogan and Cuomo were to get the ball rolling, others would have the courage to follow their lead, and pressure could quickly build that would rid us of the dangerous narcissist sitting in the White House.

                              To be sure, the damage Trump could do in the next few months extends well beyond the pandemic. He will continue assaulting the rule of law, eviscerating our alliances, spewing racist hatred, driving capable people out of government, and working to suppress the votes of those who oppose him. But all those issues are properly the subject of the election. Dealing with the virus is a national emergency that justifies — indeed, requires — extraordinary immediate action.

                              I take no pleasure in the thought of Mike Pence as president. He has worked in lockstep with Trump. Consequently, he bears no resemblance to Gerald Ford, who had nothing to do with Watergate and commanded universal affection and respect when he succeeded Richard Nixon. But it is Donald Trump who poses the clear and present danger to the country. Link
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                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                              Comment


                              • Fox News Anchor Debunks Trump’s ‘99% Totally Harmless’ COVID Claim

                                Fox News anchor Neil Cavuto on Monday refuted President Donald Trump’s false claim that 99 percent of America’s confirmed coronavirus cases were “totally harmless,” tallying off a number of statistics to inform Fox viewers about how dangerous the virus is.

                                During his Independence Day remarks, the president downplayed the severity of the disease that has already claimed more than 130,000 American lives, claiming without any evidence that of the millions of American COVID-19 cases that have been identified, “99 percent” of them were “totally harmless.”

                                Speaking with Dr. Qanta Ahmed about a recent study showing the coronavirus is now airborne and can linger indoors, Cavuto—who has regularly drawn the president’s ire over his critical coverage—used basic math to debunk Trump’s recent claim.

                                “You know, doctor, the president was saying even with the spikes in cases, 99 percent of the cases are ‘totally harmless,’” the veteran Fox anchor said. “Now, I’m not a doctor but I know a little bit about math.”

                                “So I was looking at the 2.7 million cases we have and the five percent death rate associated with that,” he continued. “Hospitalizations closer to a 10 percent rate. And hospitalization rates for those with respiratory issues about a 9 percent clip. Bottom line, I don’t come up with 99 percent of cases totally harmless. What about you?”

                                Ahmed agreed with Cavuto, adding that she “would have to differ from the president on that” and noting that the “risks are enormous” for those with comorbidities such as diabetes and obesity. She also went on to point out that many of those who survive the disease will be left with long-term lung damage.

                                Cavuto wondered aloud if Trump was giving people a “false sense of security,” adding that he wasn’t sure that was the president’s intent. Ahmed replied that she “would not place the entire burden” on Trump, noting that many people are skeptical about the pandemic.

                                “But we now see as a nation, we trail almost the entire world in our efforts to combat this virus,” she added. “Because we have acted, as we truly are, which is a federation where the state governments are so powerful. If we had a unified response, much of this virus would have been behind us by now. And so we have no time to waste to support these other states.”

                                Even members of the president’s own administration couldn’t bring themselves to defend his claims that the virus is essentially harmless. Appearing Sunday on CNN’s State of the Union, FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn refused to back the president’s remarks, saying he wouldn’t “get into who is right and who is wrong” while stressing that the country “absolutely must take this seriously.”
                                _____________
                                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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