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Thread: COVID-2019 in America, effect on politics and economy

  1. #1351
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    the new phrase is now "we will just have to live with it."

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    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  2. #1352
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Trump Follows Through on Threat to ‘Slow the Testing Down’

    During his Tulsa rally last weekend, President Trump said the quiet part out loud, confessing that he sees coronavirus testing as a political threat and wants to diminish America’s caseload by doing a worse job of measuring it. “Testing is a double edged sword,” Trump told the sparse Oklahoma crowd. “Here’s the bad part. When you do testing…. you will find more cases. So I said to my people, ‘Slow the testing down, please.’”

    After a gaslighty news cycle in which top deputies insisted that Trump was being facetious, Trump clarified, “I don’t kid,” and even expanded his thinking on Twitter: “Cases up only because of our big number testing.”

    Science is not Trump’s strong suit. After a precipitous drop, the percentage of positive cases is now rising again — pointing to an increase in disease, not simply a greater availability of diagnostics. And as states like Texas that were largely spared in the initial months of the outbreak have emerged as hot spots, the United States just experienced a record for new cases, with 38,672 in a single day, surpassing a mark from late April.

    Despite — or perhaps because of — these shameful numbers, the administration is following through on Trump’s orders to slow down testing. The Department of Health and Human Services has announced it will pull funding from more than a dozen drive-through testing sites across five states, including Texas, at the end of the month.

    The move has left top Democrats incensed: “The pandemic is clearly getting worse in states nationwide,” Sen. Patty Murray of Washington state, the ranking Democrat on the health committee, said in a blast to reporters, “and instead of trying harder to stop it, President Trump is apparently trying harder to hide it.”

    Resources are not the issue. This move comes after Democratic senators called out the administration for failing to spend nearly $14 billion that Congress appropriated to increase testing.

    Trump’s latest testing remarks build on a long history of him viewing the accurate testing of coronavirus cases as a public-relations threat. In March, when the pandemic was about to explode across America, Trump spoke at the Centers for Disease Control about his reluctance to let in infected passengers of a cruise ship because it would swell the U.S. total, which then stood at just 240 known cases. “I like the numbers being where they are,” Trump said. “I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship.”

    Trump hit this theme again in May as the COVID death toll neared 75,000: “In a way, by doing all of this testing,” he said, “we make ourselves look bad.” As the controversy swirled this week, Trump insisted America has done “too good a job” in testing.

    The U.S. death toll from COVID is now nearly 125,000. Ironically, 90 percent or more of that grim tally could have been avoided with effective testing. Other developed countries that minimized the impact of this pandemic relied on early, aggressive testing to guide other mitigation efforts.
    __________

    God DAMN this lunatic. And God DAMN the people that support him!
    Okay, so if I told you that we cancelled the Crusader program and pulled funding from it, would you take that as meaning the administration is not concerned with national defense, or that our national defense needs have changed and we need to adopt a different strategy?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/24/coro...est-sites.html

    Giroir said that the original 41 community testing sites has been expanded to more than 600 testing sites in 48 states under a federal bundled payment program to pharmacies, and that more than 1,400 other pharmacy sites, primarily run by CVS, are providing tests “through regulatory flexibility empowering pharmacists and facilitating billing and reimbursement.”

    “We are transitioning 13 sites from the original now antiquated program to the more efficient and effective testing sites outlined above,” he said in that statement.

    “All 13 sites were provided an extra 30 days from the original transition date in May, and I personally spoke with Governors from all 5 states involved, and/or their leadership designees, who agreed that it was the appropriate time to transition out of the original 13 sites and into the thousands of new testing options.”

    BTW, the UNC says that it will not test incoming students, per guidance from the CDC that mass-testing is not supported and will create a false sense of security. This is the exact same guidance provided on masks, by HEALTH EXPERTS THAT ARE NOT TRUMP, which continued to be WHO guidance until, like, 3 weeks ago. I don't know what the WHO guidance is on mass, asymoptamic testing, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were also garbage.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  3. #1353
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Okay, so if I told you that we cancelled the Crusader program and pulled funding from it, would you take that as meaning the administration is not concerned with national defense, or that our national defense needs have changed and we need to adopt a different strategy?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/24/coro...est-sites.html




    BTW, the UNC says that it will not test incoming students, per guidance from the CDC that mass-testing is not supported and will create a false sense of security. This is the exact same guidance provided on masks, by HEALTH EXPERTS THAT ARE NOT TRUMP, which continued to be WHO guidance until, like, 3 weeks ago. I don't know what the WHO guidance is on mass, asymoptamic testing, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were also garbage.
    If I saw the BAREST HINT that Trump gave a single SHIT about doing something about COVID, then I'd agree with you.

    But there's this funny pattern that's emerged since the beginning of the year. Take a look at Asty's graphic^^

    But mostly this: https://imgur.com/gallery/ho7jmHW


    That's his "different strategy", right?
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  4. #1354
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Same situation here, cities are going back to lockdowns. This is not only American problem, its global. Statements are like,99 percent identical with Trump's.

  5. #1355
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    The U.S. death toll from COVID is now nearly 125,000. Ironically, 90 percent or more of that grim tally could have been avoided with effective testing. Other developed countries that minimized the impact of this pandemic relied on early, aggressive testing to guide other mitigation efforts.
    Testing alone isn't going to keep numbers down. It requires equally aggressive contact tracing and isolation.

    When the numbers rise it gets harder to trace contacts but it has to be done. The same with containment zones.

    Otherwise you are looking at a repeat of the lock down cycle again

    As for keeping number of deaths down that requires early treatment. People developing symptoms and those symptoms getting worse makes it harder to treat. Here too there needs to be a focus on treatment.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Jul 20, at 01:00.

  6. #1356
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    Let's keep it in perspective.

    Last month, June 2020, saw the first wide-spread reversal of the horrible employment data that emerged in April and May.

    Last month, June 2020, the same number of people age 16-19 were employed (4.88 million) as in May 2019.

    Last month, June 2020, the same number of people age 55 and over were employed (33.85 million) as in September 2015.

    Last month, June 2020, the same number of people age 16-19 were employed (4.88 million) as in May 2019.

    Last month, June 2020, the same number of people age 25-54 were employed (92.41 million) as in June 1996, 25 years ago.

    Last month, June 2020, the same number of people age 20-24 were employed (11.67 million) as in January 1996, 25-1/2 years ago.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  7. #1357
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    my guess is that with the spiraling situation in the US, next month's report will...be different.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  8. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Testing alone isn't going to keep numbers down. It requires equally aggressive contact tracing and isolation.

    When the numbers rise it gets harder to trace contacts but it has to be done. The same with containment zones.

    Otherwise you are looking at a repeat of the lock down cycle again

    As for keeping number of deaths down that requires early treatment. People developing symptoms and those symptoms getting worse makes it harder to treat. Here too there needs to be a focus on treatment.
    What you've just described is the framework of a plan. Something that Donald Trump and the flaming bag of dog shit that he calls an "Administration" haven't so much as bothered with.
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  9. #1359
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    What you've just described is the framework of a plan. Something that Donald Trump and the flaming bag of dog shit that he calls an "Administration" haven't so much as bothered with.
    It's more complicated than that. Your people aren't going to cooperate with contact tracing. Posted articles about this earlier.

    Primary & secondary contacts have to be quarantined as suspects. Is there a legal framework in place in the US to do that ?

    Voluntary quarantine depends on people complying and many will not.

    Up to a certain point contact tracing has its limits. But it has to be done.

    Then there is isolation. Sealing areas where cases break out instead of locking down the entire city.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Jul 20, at 19:27.

  10. #1360
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    What you've just described is the framework of a plan. Something that Donald Trump and the flaming bag of dog shit that he calls an "Administration" haven't so much as bothered with.
    Isn't that the CDC's job?

  11. #1361
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Right, CDC setup the guidelines and its up to states and city councils to develop, operate and enforce.

    What can Trump can do anyway ? the states can disagree and do their own thing already.

    Earlier i could not figure why contact tracing was being done after so many cases came up.

    Figure its to prevent the second round from being too bad.

    They've conceded the first as they were caught unaware.

  12. #1362
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    DE,

    Right, CDC setup the guidelines and its up to states and city councils to develop, operate and enforce.

    What can Trump can do anyway ? the states can disagree and do their own thing already.
    he can do -a lot-.

    for starters:

    encourage Americans to wear masks from the start.

    not spread disinformation and false hope about the virus suddenly going away.

    put political pressure on governors to follow public health guidance.

    this is pretty minimal stuff, this doesn't require Roosevelt or Lincoln-levels of leadership to execute this.

    the CDC can do the -technical- stuff, like push public health advice, coordinate vaccine development, assist states with contact tracing, etc.

    but it's on the President and the administration to do the -political- stuff.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  13. #1363
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    Eric covered everything I was going to say. In a nutshell, the President is supposed to LEAD.

    Donald Trump hasn't led. He's done the exact opposite. In fact, if you made a list of all the things that Donald Trump could do to prolong the agony of this pandemic, he's damn well hit nearly every mark.

    Speaking of which....
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

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    FDA Head Repeatedly Declines to Defend or Deny Trump Claim That 99% of COVID-19 Cases Are 'Totally Harmless'

    On Sunday, the head of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) declined to criticize President Donald Trump’s unfounded claim that 99% of COVID-19 cases are “totally harmless.”

    As the United States neared 130,000 deaths from COVID-19 this Independence Day weekend, Trump asserted at a speech yesterday that the U.S. has tested 40 million people and that 99% of cases are “harmless.” The President’s claim contradicts the existing data, including estimates by the Centers for Disease Control of the number of asymptomatic patients and evidence that this group can actively transmit the disease. But when FDA Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn appeared on CNN’s State of the Union this Sunday, he refused to contradict the President’s comment, instead urging Americans to practice social distancing and wear masks.

    CNN’s Dana Bash urged Hahn to address the President’s statement, expressing concern that the President’s claim could lead people to underestimate the dangers of the virus.

    “This is really important— probably one of the most important misclaims, or frankly lies that the President has put out there, because it really affects people’s health. If they hear the President saying, ‘99% of people are fine,’ they’re going to change their behavior, potentially get sick, infect other people. How does that make you feel as a member of his own task force?” Bash said.

    “I totally support the CDC and the information that they’re putting out with respect to this pandemic,” Hahn responded. “I think it’s again really important— the guidelines that we’ve emphasized, the, the data that we have. Again, it’s a rapidly evolving situation and we’re going to have more data.”

    When Bash pressed him a third time to address the President’s claim, Hahn declined.

    “I’m not going to get into who’s right and who’s wrong,” Hahn said,
    urging Americans to take the virus “seriously.”
    _____________________

    This is the bullshit that government agencies are up against:

    If they flat out refute Trump's unhinged mountain of bullshit and disinformation, they're in deep trouble, from both ends: His violence-prone cult and the "man" himself.

    No wonder Hahn kept ducking and weaving. Contradicting Trump would've been a death sentence.
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  15. #1365
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    DE,



    he can do -a lot-.

    for starters:

    encourage Americans to wear masks from the start.

    not spread disinformation and false hope about the virus suddenly going away.

    put political pressure on governors to follow public health guidance.

    this is pretty minimal stuff, this doesn't require Roosevelt or Lincoln-levels of leadership to execute this.

    the CDC can do the -technical- stuff, like push public health advice, coordinate vaccine development, assist states with contact tracing, etc.

    but it's on the President and the administration to do the -political- stuff.
    And what are the states supposed to do ?

    Manage this disease within their jurisdiction isn't it. Their responsibility.

    I'm not very sympathetic to all this finger pointing going on you know.

    Your answer strikes me way too top down.

    States need supplies, ask the feds otherwise get on with it.

    What Trump says is pretty much irrelevant. He's in election mode. He going to say all sorts of things. What he cannot do is prevent states doing their job.

    If the numbers are going up its the states that have to manage it. If they don't they screwed up not Trump. If they succeed they can claim the credit.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Jul 20, at 22:52.

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