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Thread: COVID-2019 in America, effect on politics and economy

  1. #1246
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    From the CDC:

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6919e6.htm

    High SARS-CoV-2 Attack Rate Following Exposure at a Choir Practice — Skagit County, Washington, March 2020

    Following a 2.5-hour choir practice attended by 61 persons, including a symptomatic index patient, 32 confirmed and 20 probable secondary COVID-19 cases occurred (attack rate = 53.3% to 86.7%); three patients were hospitalized, and two died. Transmission was likely facilitated by close proximity (within 6 feet) during practice and augmented by the act of singing.



    I won't be surprised if more incidents like this play out as places like churches re-open. This incident occurred in a town of 31,000 people (Mount Vernon, WA), in the middle of an otherwise rural/low density part of Skagit County, WA.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 22 May 20, at 00:15.
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

  2. #1247
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    the GOP has a "natural" advantage in Congressional representation because 1.) the US founders purposefully wanted "land" (read: wealthy landowners like themselves) to have a say over the grubby populace, and 2.) this gives rural and semi-rural areas enormous power over far more populated areas.

    i mean, Wyoming doesn't have the population of even a middle-sized US city like Oklahoma City or Indianapolis.

    then the GOP has taken this and run with it. it took just one big victory (2014) for them to tilt the playing ground even more, through gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc. for Dems to even achieve CLOSE to the ground that they lost in one election, they will need to win at least -two- landslide elections.

    the GOP is willing to do these type of institution-breaking things because they view, with some justification, that trends are going against them in the long-term. there's a reason why Mitch McConnell doesn't give a crap about doing anything else other than stuffing the judiciary with judges, and pressuring any GOP judge within spitting distance of retirement to get out now.

    Trump is just the symptom. look at the way the US right-wing has slavered over Hungary's Orban, whom literally destroyed democracy in his country.

    https://www.vox.com/2020/5/21/212563...-conservatives
    For all that we went through to achieve independence from England we then institute a system similar to theirs. The common local yokel wasn't smart enough, nor had any land, so what do they know and why should they vote their interests over us, the landed gentry. The Electoral College is an anachronism that should have been abolished long ago as we are the only 1st world democracy that uses something other than popular vote. If the Republicans can't compete in the popular vote then maybe they need to alter their plank to make it more attractive to voters. Instead, rather than do that, they want a handicap going into each Presidential election.

    Gee, why don't we give Richard Petty a one lap head start over the field. Yep, sounds fair...

  3. #1248
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Atleast he's blunt in calling out the leadership of communist PRC.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  4. #1249
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Indoor restaurant dining has re-opened in San Diego. Just went for a walk, saw a bunch of people dining in restaurants. I had to whip out my cell and google the news to find out what was going on.

    It looks like they're allowing re-opening with certain restrictions, such as a 50% reduction in seating capacity, distancing tables, daily temperature checks and mask requirements for employees, while allowing expanded outdoor seating on sidewalks as well as parking lots.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 22 May 20, at 04:05.
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

  5. #1250
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    For all that we went through to achieve independence from England we then institute a system similar to theirs.
    well, the Founders were all ambitious men; they didn't -like- being big fish in a small pond, which is exactly what they were as colonials.

    the rest of the system, minus the King part, they were by and large fine with...as long as they could rule the roost.

    Instead, rather than do that, they want a handicap going into each Presidential election.
    not just the Presidential election, basically -every- election down to local dog-catcher. REDMAP was a nasty surprise to the Dems because it took partisanship and statistical design in the aid of partisanship to a completely new level.

    and frankly it's pretty clear to me that the GOP is despairing of democratic politics altogether, because they KNOW that they're going to be at a severe disadvantage for years to come. the mainstream right kludged onto Trump despite knowing he was utterly unprepared to be President and "not even a real conservative" because 2016 was somehow the "9-11 election". the alt-right doesn't even try to hide it.

    the entire US right-wing has gone absolutely nutso. the GOP nominee for Senate in Oregon is a Q conspiracist, but what does that matter when Trump himself spouts conspiracy theories everyday?
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  6. #1251
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    not just the Presidential election, basically -every- election down to local dog-catcher. REDMAP was a nasty surprise to the Dems because it took partisanship and statistical design in the aid of partisanship to a completely new level.

    and frankly it's pretty clear to me that the GOP is despairing of democratic politics altogether, because they KNOW that they're going to be at a severe disadvantage for years to come. the mainstream right kludged onto Trump despite knowing he was utterly unprepared to be President and "not even a real conservative" because 2016 was somehow the "9-11 election". the alt-right doesn't even try to hide it.

    the entire US right-wing has gone absolutely nutso. the GOP nominee for Senate in Oregon is a Q conspiracist, but what does that matter when Trump himself spouts conspiracy theories everyday?
    It has become increasingly clear through interaction with GOP supporters that the only use they have for the electoral system is to keep them in power. If that can't be achieved by getting a majority of voters to vote for GOP candidates then it must be achieved some other way and that way won't involve any sort of political compromise. The ease with which a solid bloc of the American electorate has walked away from democracy really is scary.


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  7. #1252
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Who here said anything about 100k Swedes dead from COVID-19? Who anywhere said that? What is even the point?
    Sorry, was parphrasing Neil Ferguson from Imperial College on what he said about the Swedish model. Not anybody here.

    Swedes right now feel pretty vindicated with their policy that didn't crater their economy.

    A very influential guy in getting a number of govts to lock down or face the worst.

    You will say but the US & UK DID lockdown to the extent possible and hence we don't have the big numbers but are you satisfied with the results ? one would expect lower deaths in both countries.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 22 May 20, at 15:06.

  8. #1253
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    From the CDC:

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6919e6.htm

    High SARS-CoV-2 Attack Rate Following Exposure at a Choir Practice — Skagit County, Washington, March 2020

    Following a 2.5-hour choir practice attended by 61 persons, including a symptomatic index patient, 32 confirmed and 20 probable secondary COVID-19 cases occurred (attack rate = 53.3% to 86.7%); three patients were hospitalized, and two died. Transmission was likely facilitated by close proximity (within 6 feet) during practice and augmented by the act of singing.



    I won't be surprised if more incidents like this play out as places like churches re-open. This incident occurred in a town of 31,000 people (Mount Vernon, WA), in the middle of an otherwise rural/low density part of Skagit County, WA.
    March 17 was before people were aware. What if they wear masks ? How well that gets followed is anybodys guess.

    A choir singing will definitely spread things around quite well. An infected bartender in a night club in Gangelt blowing a whistle was all it took to infect the club. The Korean cult that gave the authorities such a nightmare. This cult does not have a choir, every one in the congregation gives their testmonials.

    I have no idea when places of worship will be open in my country. Not for a while yet i expect.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 22 May 20, at 14:57.

  9. #1254
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    If the Republicans can't compete in the popular vote then maybe they need to alter their plank to make it more attractive to voters. Instead, rather than do that, they want a handicap going into each Presidential election.
    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    the entire US right-wing has gone absolutely nutso. the GOP nominee for Senate in Oregon is a Q conspiracist, but what does that matter when Trump himself spouts conspiracy theories everyday?
    This is what one of the central GOP planks has become: Conspiracy theories. It's the easiest and most simplistic way to explain all the "horrible" things happening to the GOP's base right now.
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  10. #1255
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    ^

    https://www.businessinsider.com/repu...p-study-2020-5

    A new survey by Yahoo News and YouGov has found that 44% of Republicans believe that Bill Gates will use the COVID-19 vaccination to implant a location-tracking microchip into the vaccine recipient, a conspiracy theory that has gained traction among fringe groups and conservative pundits.

    The survey also found that 26% of Republicans do not believe the false microchip vaccine narrative, while 31% remained undecided on the topic. Half of the people surveyed who use Fox News as their main source of TV news also believe the debunked theory.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  11. #1256
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Wow, brains are in that short of supply?

  12. #1257
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Wow, brains are in that short of supply?
    Trump followers, what else can you expect?
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  13. #1258
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    ^

    https://www.businessinsider.com/repu...p-study-2020-5

    A new survey by Yahoo News and YouGov has found that 44% of Republicans believe that Bill Gates will use the COVID-19 vaccination to implant a location-tracking microchip into the vaccine recipient, a conspiracy theory that has gained traction among fringe groups and conservative pundits.

    The survey also found that 26% of Republicans do not believe the false microchip vaccine narrative, while 31% remained undecided on the topic. Half of the people surveyed who use Fox News as their main source of TV news also believe the debunked theory.
    44% TFIs.*
    Go look at fivethirtyeight.com's daily Trumpet popularity poll of polls.
    'nuf said.







    *Total fucking idiots.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  14. #1259
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    actually, i'd say it's 74-75%.

    if one is "undecided" if Bill Gates will use a COVID-19 vaccination to implant location-tracking microchips, that person is STILL a TFI.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  15. #1260
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    This is what one of the central GOP planks has become: Conspiracy theories. It's the easiest and most simplistic way to explain all the "horrible" things happening to the GOP's base right now.
    A consequence of a lot of information being in the hands of a lot of people who should not have that information ?

    CT sounds so benign compared to mob violence which frequently can occur as a result of the cost of accessing information approaching nearly free

    An artifact of the information age we live in.

    It's counter intuitive, i expect CT when there is a scarcity of information not abundance.

    But if that abundance is low quality to begin with then it can lead to CT, if it gets repeated enough.

    Anybody can start their own channel and spout out whatever.

    Wasn't the case to the same extent before social media.

    Leaders get taken in by headlines, the result of a trending topic by an outrage mob creates the headline. They didn't assemble in real life but there was a trend. Ends up bogging down leadership in the tactical and prevents them from focusing on larger macro issues they should be focussing on. Who knows if a trending hashtag could translate into an electoral trend.

    It also reduces room to manouever because things that should be said behind doors are out in the open. Leaks here & there.

    This social media feedback and its effect on leadership is making leaders less leaders and turning them into something else. Fire brigade drivers ?

    I'm surprised at how adept Trump is with social media, not something you'd expect of a guy pushing 70.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 24 May 20, at 22:08.

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