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Thread: COVID-2019 in America, effect on politics and economy

  1. #1231
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    We didn't do social distancing and lockdowns back then. The economy was not a factor. Everyone went about their jobs.
    OK, was just looking for context.
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

  2. #1232
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    yeah, i know, when even our board's resident cold war dinosaur is telling me to get with the times...:-)

    Brazil's worse than Russia in this regards. Russia is at least doing testing, even if they are fudging the results and pushing doctors out of windows.

    Brazil's barely done any testing, and their numbers are -still- insane.

    of course Bolsonaro's response to all of this has been to implicitly support the idea of a military takeover. i guess that's one leader that's worse than Trump in this crisis.
    Brazil blew by Spain today and looks poised to overtake Russia tomorrow, of course their numbers are suspect some, but at 21,000 per day, yikes.

    Another country I suspect on numbers is the Philippines. I don't know if any of you have ever walked the streets of Manila but I have many times. Things are packed in the city and even more so in areas like Tondo. Elderly all live with their family. Their lockdown is very strict but what that means is you can't leave your barangay, or district, for almost any reason. Police and Army man the checkpoints. If you don't have money you simply don't even bother to go to a hospital. So who knows how many die at home. Life is cheap there. My wife is in constant contact with her family over there in Rizal which is east of Manila. They have no work since they can't leave, they have no money, no food, there is no such thing as a grace period on bills, so we try to send money which is easy but picking it up is hard. Not to mention that their summer heat happens in February-April and with May it is now cyclone season.

  3. #1233
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    yeah, i know, when even our board's resident cold war dinosaur is telling me to get with the times...:-)
    I almost spewed coffee all over my monitor!!!!
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
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  4. #1234
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  5. #1235
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    Trump says he would have done ‘nothing’ differently to stop pandemic as US death toll nears 94,000

    Donald Trump has said he would have done “nothing” differently to stop the spread of the coronavirus - even as a new Columbia University model indicates that going into lockdown two weeks earlier would have saved 54,000 American lives. The country’s death toll is currently approaching 94,000.

    The president also revealed that he will stop taking the controversial anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine ”in two days” and spent much of Wednesday attacking the election battleground states of Michigan and Nevada for allowing postal voting, which he insisted promotes “a lot of illegality” but was unable to explain how when quizzed by reporters.

    Trump also renewed his war of words with China on Twitter, accusing it of engaging in a “massive disinformation campaign” over Covid-19 and causing “panic and carnage” around the world, his remarks coinciding with the release of a new White House report reaching similar conclusions.
    _______________

    2 weeks.

    Just 2 weeks would've saved the lives of 54,000 people. Let's pretend that model is off by as much as 50%....that's still 27,000 lives.

    And he would've done nothing differently.

    I hope to god that we see the last of this narcissistic maniac come January.
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  6. #1236
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Trump says he would have done ‘nothing’ differently to stop pandemic as US death toll nears 94,000

    Donald Trump has said he would have done “nothing” differently to stop the spread of the coronavirus - even as a new Columbia University model indicates that going into lockdown two weeks earlier would have saved 54,000 American lives. The country’s death toll is currently approaching 94,000.

    The president also revealed that he will stop taking the controversial anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine ”in two days” and spent much of Wednesday attacking the election battleground states of Michigan and Nevada for allowing postal voting, which he insisted promotes “a lot of illegality” but was unable to explain how when quizzed by reporters.

    Trump also renewed his war of words with China on Twitter, accusing it of engaging in a “massive disinformation campaign” over Covid-19 and causing “panic and carnage” around the world, his remarks coinciding with the release of a new White House report reaching similar conclusions.
    _______________

    2 weeks.

    Just 2 weeks would've saved the lives of 54,000 people. Let's pretend that model is off by as much as 50%....that's still 27,000 lives.

    And he would've done nothing differently.

    I hope to god that we see the last of this narcissistic maniac come January.
    I'm waiting for a point in time, around September to October, for Trump to say he saved lives. It goes like this. Trump on the stump says the experts predicted a high of 250,000 deaths, well we have had only 140,000 deaths, so I have saved the lives of 110,000 people so thank me.

    Do you think I am far fetched?

  7. #1237
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    [B][SIZE=3]
    The president also revealed that he will stop taking the controversial anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine ”in two days” and spent much of Wednesday attacking the election battleground states of Michigan and Nevada for allowing postal voting, which he insisted promotes “a lot of illegality” but was unable to explain how when quizzed by reporters.
    They are clearly working hard to limit who can vote in November. Postal voting as in absentee ballots. He just used one in Florida and I have used them since 1988. If I am not mistaken but I don't think the Constitution says one word about the method of voting and leaves it up to the state to facilitate.

  8. #1238
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Hasn't reduced the enthusiasm of investors. BARDA gave them $1bn


    AstraZeneca gets $1 billion from US to make Oxford vaccine | Bloomberg (syndicated)| May 21 2020

    The U.K. drugmaker received the money from the U.S. Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority and said it has secured capacity to make 1 billion doses. Although AstraZeneca has said it expects to have shots ready as soon as September, the company’s vaccine candidate is still in human trials, with no guarantee of success.

    The funding for AstraZeneca is part of the Operation Warp Speed effort to secure vaccines for the U.S., according to a statement from the Health and Human Services Department. Astra can receive up to $1.2 billion under the agreement, and the U.S. expects 300 million doses to be available as early as October.

    Some doubts have been raised about the potential effectiveness of the Oxford vaccine after early results in monkeys were released. While the shot may have protected animals against severe infections, the results were weak compared with those of a test of a vaccine under development by Sinovac Biotech in Beijing, said William Haseltine, a former Harvard University HIV researcher, in a blog post.

    Infections in Monkeys

    The comparison is inapt for studies carried out with different types of vaccines given in varying doses, in monkeys who were infected with different levels of virus, the Oxford researchers said in a statement. “In the end it is the impact on clinical disease that matters,” they said.
    Phase 3 is the real deal. So the oxford vaccine is still in the race

    Why is a Harvard guy talking about Sinovac instead of Moderna ?
    Last edited by Double Edge; 21 May 20, at 22:46.

  9. #1239
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    If you go to the website for the Swedish Public Health Agency on COVID-19, they're keeping track of statistics on this site:

    Covid-19 – statistik med diagram och kartor - Ingång för Chrome, Edge, Safari, Firefox mfl.

    Today you threw out a figure of "2.5k" and tell us we can "trust their data".

    That's not their data. Their figure is 3831 deaths officially attributed to COVID-19. Why are you telling us to "trust their data" with a false figure?
    And tell me how close is 3.8k to the estimated 100k predicted because of their approach ?? THAT IS THE POINT !!

    We can trust that 3.8k figure and whtever it says in the future, yes ? SECOND POINT !!

    I quoted that from a program i watched, data might have been a few days late
    Last edited by Double Edge; 21 May 20, at 18:21.

  10. #1240
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    They are clearly working hard to limit who can vote in November. Postal voting as in absentee ballots. He just used one in Florida and I have used them since 1988. If I am not mistaken but I don't think the Constitution says one word about the method of voting and leaves it up to the state to facilitate.
    As far as I know, there is only one Federal race, at the Electoral College. Everything else is at the individual states.
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  11. #1241
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    I'm waiting for a point in time, around September to October, for Trump to say he saved lives. It goes like this. Trump on the stump says the experts predicted a high of 250,000 deaths, well we have had only 140,000 deaths, so I have saved the lives of 110,000 people so thank me.

    Do you think I am far fetched?
    You're not far fetched on this one, you are unquestionably correct. Trump will absolutely claim that his actions were "perfect".

    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    They are clearly working hard to limit who can vote in November. Postal voting as in absentee ballots. He just used one in Florida and I have used them since 1988. If I am not mistaken but I don't think the Constitution says one word about the method of voting and leaves it up to the state to facilitate.
    No doubt about it that either. The GOP knows and has admitted that lower voter turnout favors them.

    High voter turnout will doom them.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRT View Post
    As far as I know, there is only one Federal race, at the Electoral College. Everything else is at the individual states.
    Republican Party officials at the state level in GOP-dominated areas will do their damnedest to ensure full-spectrum voter suppression, where ever and how ever they're able to.
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  12. #1242
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    You're not far fetched on this one, you are unquestionably correct. Trump will absolutely claim that his actions were "perfect".



    No doubt about it that either. The GOP knows and has admitted that lower voter turnout favors them.

    High voter turnout will doom them.



    Republican Party officials at the state level in GOP-dominated areas will do their damnedest to ensure full-spectrum voter suppression, where ever and how ever they're able to.
    It's hard to wrap my mind around the fact that 7 of the last 8 popular votes in presidential elections have been won by the Democrats, representing an obvious majority in the country.

    But then the Republicans as recent as two years ago controlled the Presidency, Senate, House, Supreme Court and vast majority of governorships across the country. I mean it's right there to see in plain view that voter suppression and gerrymandering is far, far more prevalent on one side of the spectrum.

  13. #1243
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    It's hard to wrap my mind around the fact that 7 of the last 8 popular votes in presidential elections have been won by the Democrats, representing an obvious majority in the country.

    But then the Republicans as recent as two years ago controlled the Presidency, Senate, House, Supreme Court and vast majority of governorships across the country. I mean it's right there to see in plain view that voter suppression and gerrymandering is far, far more prevalent on one side of the spectrum.
    Kind of brings this to mind in a way especially if you alter the first word a little the thought is the same

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  14. #1244
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    the GOP has a "natural" advantage in Congressional representation because 1.) the US founders purposefully wanted "land" (read: wealthy landowners like themselves) to have a say over the grubby populace, and 2.) this gives rural and semi-rural areas enormous power over far more populated areas.

    i mean, Wyoming doesn't have the population of even a middle-sized US city like Oklahoma City or Indianapolis.

    then the GOP has taken this and run with it. it took just one big victory (2014) for them to tilt the playing ground even more, through gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc. for Dems to even achieve CLOSE to the ground that they lost in one election, they will need to win at least -two- landslide elections.

    the GOP is willing to do these type of institution-breaking things because they view, with some justification, that trends are going against them in the long-term. there's a reason why Mitch McConnell doesn't give a crap about doing anything else other than stuffing the judiciary with judges, and pressuring any GOP judge within spitting distance of retirement to get out now.

    Trump is just the symptom. look at the way the US right-wing has slavered over Hungary's Orban, whom literally destroyed democracy in his country.

    https://www.vox.com/2020/5/21/212563...-conservatives
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  15. #1245
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    And tell me how close is 3.8k to the estimated 100k predicted because of their approach ?? THAT IS THE POINT !!

    We can trust that 3.8k figure and whtever it says in the future, yes ? SECOND POINT !!
    Who here said anything about 100k Swedes dead from COVID-19? Who anywhere said that? What is even the point?

    I quoted that from a program i watched, data might have been a few days late
    Sweden was at 2500 three weeks ago.
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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