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Thread: COVID-2019 in America, effect on politics and economy

  1. #61
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    Oil down 30% yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Some friends think that there is no point in washing your hands because washing your hands doesn't kill the virus anyways.
    They should rethink their stance and behavior on this, as it is not just a matter of protecting themselves (reason enough), but also in protecting any contacted loved ones.

    6/7 (86%) of reported COVID-2019 infections did not result in significant lung infection, but those infected were able to infect others who may suffer more serious infection.

    1/7 (14%) of reported infections resulted in lung infection, a far more serious situation which can lead to secondary infection such as pneumonia and sepsis.

    6% required use of artificial respirator

    3.4% died

    Washing hands with soap and water before touching food, face or loved ones is easy and effective. Read quoted article below. (I see that I double copied some material but do not have time to fix that now, so just skip repeated material)

    Deadly viruses are no match for plain, old soap — here’s the science behind it

    By Palli Thordarson
    09 March 2020
    Marketwatch

    Why does soap work so well on the new coronavirus and, indeed, most viruses? Because it is a self-assembled nanoparticle in which the weakest link is the lipid (fatty) bilayer.

    That sounds scientific. Let me explain.

    Soap dissolves the fat membrane, and the virus falls apart like a house of cards and “dies,” or rather, it becomes inactive as viruses aren’t really alive. Viruses can be active outside the body for hours, even days.

    Disinfectants, or liquids, wipes, gels and creams containing alcohol (and soap) have a similar effect but are not as good as regular soap. Apart from alcohol and soap, antibacterial agents in those products don’t affect the virus structure much. Consequently, many antibacterial products are basically just an expensive version of soap in how they act on viruses. Soap is the best, but alcohol wipes are good when soap is not practical or handy, for example in office reception areas.

    Supramolecular chemistry

    But why, exactly, is soap so good? To explain that, I will take you through a journey of supramolecular chemistry, nanoscience and virology. I will try to explain this in generic terms, which means leaving out special chemistry terms. (I must point out that, while I am an expert in supramolecular chemistry and the assembly of nanoparticles, I am not a virologist.)

    I have always been fascinated by viruses, as I see them as one of them most spectacular examples of how supramolecular chemistry and nanoscience converge.

    Most viruses consist of three key building blocks: RNA, proteins and lipids.The RNA is the viral genetic material — it is similar to DNA. The proteins have several roles, including breaking into the target cell, assisting with virus replication and basically being a key building block (like a brick in a house) in the virus structure.

    The lipids then form a coat around the virus, both for protection and to assist with its spread and cellular invasion. The RNA, proteins and lipids self-assemble to form the virus. Critically, there are no strong “covalent” bonds holding these units together.

    Instead, the viral self-assembly is based on weak “non-covalent” interactions between the proteins, RNA and lipids. Together, these act together like Velcro, so it is hard to break up the self-assembled viral particle. Still, we can do it — with soap!

    Most viruses, including the coronavirus, are between 50-200 nanometers — so they truly are nanoparticles. Nanoparticles have complex interactions with surfaces they are on; it’s the same with viruses. Skin, steel, timber, fabric, paint and porcelain are very different surfaces.

    This is how soap removes dirt, and bacteria, from the skin.

    Why does soap work so well on the new coronavirus and, indeed, most viruses? Because it is a self-assembled nanoparticle in which the weakest link is the lipid (fatty) bilayer.

    That sounds scientific. Let me explain.

    Soap dissolves the fat membrane, and the virus falls apart like a house of cards and “dies,” or rather, it becomes inactive as viruses aren’t really alive. Viruses can be active outside the body for hours, even days.

    Disinfectants, or liquids, wipes, gels and creams containing alcohol (and soap) have a similar effect but are not as good as regular soap. Apart from alcohol and soap, antibacterial agents in those products don’t affect the virus structure much. Consequently, many antibacterial products are basically just an expensive version of soap in how they act on viruses. Soap is the best, but alcohol wipes are good when soap is not practical or handy, for example in office reception areas.

    Soap outcompetes the interactions between the virus and the skin surface, and the virus gets detached and falls apart like a house of cards.

    Supramolecular chemistry

    But why, exactly, is soap so good? To explain that, I will take you through a journey of supramolecular chemistry, nanoscience and virology. I will try to explain this in generic terms, which means leaving out special chemistry terms. (I must point out that, while I am an expert in supramolecular chemistry and the assembly of nanoparticles, I am not a virologist.)

    I have always been fascinated by viruses, as I see them as one of them most spectacular examples of how supramolecular chemistry and nanoscience converge.

    Most viruses consist of three key building blocks: RNA, proteins and lipids.The RNA is the viral genetic material — it is similar to DNA. The proteins have several roles, including breaking into the target cell, assisting with virus replication and basically being a key building block (like a brick in a house) in the virus structure.

    The lipids then form a coat around the virus, both for protection and to assist with its spread and cellular invasion. The RNA, proteins and lipids self-assemble to form the virus. Critically, there are no strong “covalent” bonds holding these units together.

    Instead, the viral self-assembly is based on weak “non-covalent” interactions between the proteins, RNA and lipids. Together, these act together like Velcro, so it is hard to break up the self-assembled viral particle. Still, we can do it — with soap!

    Most viruses, including the coronavirus, are between 50-200 nanometers — so they truly are nanoparticles. Nanoparticles have complex interactions with surfaces they are on; it’s the same with viruses. Skin, steel, timber, fabric, paint and porcelain are very different surfaces.

    When a virus invades a cell, the RNA “hijacks” the cellular machinery like a computer virus and forces the cell to make fresh copies of its own RNA and the various proteins that make up the virus.

    These new RNA and protein molecules self-assemble with lipids (readily present in the cell) to form new copies of the virus. That is, the virus does not photocopy itself; it makes copies of the building blocks, which then self-assemble into new viruses.

    All those new viruses eventually overwhelm the cell, and it dies or explodes, releasing viruses that then go on to infect more cells. In the lungs, viruses end up in the airways and mucous membranes.

    When you cough, or especially when you sneeze, tiny droplets from the airways can fly up to 30 feet. The larger ones are thought to be main coronavirus carriers, and they can go at least 7 feet. So, cover your coughs and sneezes!

    Skin is an ideal surface for viruses

    These tiny droplets end up on surfaces and dry out quickly. But the viruses are still active. What happens next is all about supramolecular chemistry and how self-assembled nanoparticles (like the viruses) interact with their environment.

    Now it is time to introduce a powerful supramolecular chemistry concept that effectively says: Similar molecules appear to interact more strongly with each other than dissimilar ones. Wood, fabric and skin interact fairly strongly with viruses.

    Contrast this with steel, porcelain and at least some plastics, such as Teflon. The surface structure also matters. The flatter the surface, the less the virus will “stick” to the surface. Rougher surfaces can actually pull the virus apart.

    So why are surfaces different? The virus is held together by a combination of hydrogen bonds (like those in water) and hydrophilic, or “fat-like,” interactions. The surface of fibers or wood, for instance, can form a lot of hydrogen bonds with the virus.

    In contrast, steel, porcelain or Teflon do not form much of a hydrogen bond with the virus. So the virus is not strongly bound to those surfaces and is quite stable.

    For how long does the virus stay active? It depends. The novel coronavirus is thought to stay active on favorable surfaces for hours, possibly a day. What makes the virus less stable? Moisture (“dissolves”), sunlight (UV light) and heat (molecular motions).

    The skin is an ideal surface for a virus. It is organic, of course, and the proteins and fatty acids in the dead cells on the surface interact with the virus through both hydrogen bonds and the “fat-like” hydrophilic interactions.

    So when you touch a steel surface with a virus particle on it, it will stick to your skin and, hence, get transferred on to your hands. But you are not (yet) infected. If you touch your face, though, the virus can get transferred.

    And now the virus is dangerously close to the airways and the mucus-type membranes in and around your mouth and eyes. So the virus can get in and — voila! — you are infected. That is, unless your immune system kills the virus.

    If the virus is on your hands, you can pass it on by shaking someone’s else hand. Kisses, well, that’s pretty obvious. It goes without saying that if someone sneezes in your face, you’re stuck.

    So how often do you touch your face? It turns out most people touch the face once every two to five minutes. So you’re at high risk once the virus gets on your hands, unless you wash off the active virus.

    So let’s try washing it off with plain water. It might just work. But water “only” competes with the strong “glue-like” interactions between the skin and virus via hydrogen bonds. The virus is sticky and may not budge. Water isn’t enough.

    Soap dissolves a virus’ structure

    Soapy water is totally different. Soap contains fat-like substances known as amphiphiles, some structurally similar to the lipids in the virus membrane. The soap molecules “compete” with the lipids in the virus membrane. That is more or less how soap also removes normal dirt of the skin (see graphic at the top of this article).

    The soap molecules also compete with a lot other non-covalent bonds that help the proteins, RNA and the lipids to stick together. The soap is effectively “dissolving” the glue that holds the virus together. Add to that all the water.

    The soap also outcompetes the interactions between the virus and the skin surface. Soon the virus gets detached and falls apart like a house of cards due to the combined action of the soap and water. Boom, the virus is gone!

    The skin is rough and wrinkly, which is why you need a fair amount of rubbing and soaking to ensure the soap reaches every nook and cranny on the skin surface that could be hiding active viruses.

    Alcohol-based products include all “disinfectants” and “antibacterial” products that contain a high share of alcohol solution, typically 60%-80% ethanol, sometimes with a bit of isopropanol, water and a bit of soap.

    Ethanol and other types of alcohol do not only readily form hydrogen bonds with the virus material but, as a solvent, are more lipophilic than water. Hence, alcohol does dissolve the lipid membrane and disrupt other supramolecular interactions in the virus.

    However, you need a fairly high concentration (maybe 60%-plus) of the alcohol to get a rapid dissolution of the virus. Vodka or whiskey (usually 40% ethanol) won’t dissolve the virus as quickly. Overall, alcohol is not as good as soap at this task.

    Nearly all antibacterial products contain alcohol and some soap, and that does help kill viruses. But some also include “active” bacterial killing agents, such as triclosan. Those, however, do basically nothing to the virus.

    Alcohol works — to a degree

    To sum up, viruses are almost like grease-nanoparticles. They can stay active for many hours on surfaces and then get picked up by touch. Then they get to our face and infect us because most of us touch our face frequently.

    Water is not effective alone in washing the virus off our hands. Alcohol-based products work better. But nothing beats soap — the virus detaches from the skin and falls apart readily in soapy water.

    Supramolecular chemistry and nanoscience tell us not only a lot about how the virus self-assembles into a functional, active menace, but also how we can beat viruses with something as simple as soap.

    Palli Thordarson is a professor at the School of Chemistry at the University of New South Wales, Sydney.
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  3. #63
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Went back to work today. Apparently several employees are out sick, including some employees who NEVER get sick, and we haven't bother stocking the automatic hand sanitizers at every entrance. Email from the company says there is nothing to worry about, just wash your hands.

    Some friends think that there is no point in washing your hands because washing your hands doesn't kill the virus anyways.

    My Dad has COPD and my Mom recently had cancer and my father-in-law seems to have permanent lung damage, so I'm just not leaving the fucking house.
    It was some what obvious yesterday but it was really obvious today. Traffic via 680 southbound from points 80 miles north of San Jose was tremendously attenuated today. It was green my whole 15 mile trip at 9:30 when it is never that way except on a Sunday morning. Will see for sure tonight but it looks as though much of Silicon Valley has started to work from home. Locally my office is quiet and the barber I went to last night also told me of a very slow two days so far.

  4. #64
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Oil down 30% yesterday.
    Geopolitics are afoot. Who can hold out and who will cut and run of the three: US, Saudi Arabia, or Russia...

    Base on a rational economic POV the US should be the one in trouble first given higher cost of producing a barrel. Simple, but...

    The Joker in the deck is our Joker who doesn't act rational.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    It was some what obvious yesterday but it was really obvious today. Traffic via 680 southbound from points 80 miles north of San Jose was tremendously attenuated today. It was green my whole 15 mile trip at 9:30 when it is never that way except on a Sunday morning. Will see for sure tonight but it looks as though much of Silicon Valley has started to work from home. Locally my office is quiet and the barber I went to last night also told me of a very slow two days so far.
    I don't like the idea of working from home, especially in a profession as advanced and important as software development. At least Microsoft keeps their workplace in the professional center. Working from home leaves too many openings for security risks and adds difficulty to protecting company assets. I would say these work-from-home developers probably aren't developing the more critical programs that most of us would use daily. Good to hear though that traffic improved.
    Hit the grape lethally.

  6. #66
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    Trump says no need for him to get coronavirus test

    Washington (AFP) - US President Donald Trump said Tuesday he would be happy to get a coronavirus test but that he has been told there's no need, despite having had contact with several lawmakers who chose to self-quarantine.

    "I feel extremely good. I feel very good but I guess it's not a big deal to get tested and it's something I would do," Trump told reporters in Washington.

    However, the White House doctor declared there was "no reason to do it," Trump added. "There's no symptoms, no anything."

    Trump's health has come under the spotlight as the coronavirus spreads in the United States, with three Republican lawmakers who met with the president having being exposed recently to someone who had tested positive.

    One of those deciding to go into self-imposed quarantine was Trump's pick for White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, although his test result was negative.

    Another, Matt Gaetz, who traveled with Trump on Air Force One on Monday, said Tuesday that he had also tested negative.
    _____________

    Translation: "I'll get a coronavirus test on the same day that I voluntarily release my tax information."
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Trump says no need for him to get coronavirus test
    I agree with this. He's not spreading panic and he has shown no clinical symptons that would require testing. He's showing calm in a sea of panic to actually know when to use help so not to overburden the system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    I agree with this. He's not spreading panic and he has shown no clinical symptons that would require testing. He's showing calm in a sea of panic to actually know when to use help so not to overburden the system.
    Calm? eh, no, he's showing utter cluelessness and spreading mass confusion (typical behavior, but there you go)
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  9. #69
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    The United States' closest ally is in 'genuine disbelief' about how bad Trump's response to the coronavirus outbreak has been

    The UK government is in "genuine disbelief" about how badly US President Donald Trump has handled the coronavirus outbreak, and officials have reacted with "incredulity" to the president's attempts to downplay the epidemic, BuzzFeed News reported on Monday.

    The Trump administration's slow response and the president's stream of tweets about COVID-19, the disease caused by the virus, have triggered eye-rolls among Prime Minister Boris Johnson's team, UK officials told BuzzFeed News.

    "There is a general level of incredulity over his comments but especially over the lack of testing," a UK official told the website.

    People in the UK government "are used to the steady stream of tweets, but the last few days have caused more than the usual eye-rolling," the official said. "There is genuine disbelief."
    ________

    Um, what the hell did you expect??
    heh, actually i'm in genuine disbelief as to actions of the UK govt wrt this disease.

    Keep calm and carry on as usual seems to be their MO

    At least Trump stopped people entering from China well over a month ago. Beginning Feb. Enough time to allow the half a million students from China back into college.

    UK govt thinks those escaping from Milan are perfectly fine to enter the UK !!
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Mar 20, at 18:59.

  10. #70
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Geopolitics are afoot. Who can hold out and who will cut and run of the three: US, Saudi Arabia, or Russia...

    Base on a rational economic POV the US should be the one in trouble first given higher cost of producing a barrel. Simple, but...

    The Joker in the deck is our Joker who doesn't act rational.
    I think its waay simpler. China isn't working, isn't buying, glut in the market, good for the consumer.

    As for the price war, they tried this before remember ? back in 2014 to kill those American frackers

    By 2016, they concluded they too were hurting and gave up.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Mar 20, at 19:01.

  11. #71
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Email from the company says there is nothing to worry about, just wash your hands.
    If they had those sanitisers it would be easier. Any alcohol more than 60% will do otherwise. Rubbing alcohol is around 70%

    Some friends think that there is no point in washing your hands because washing your hands doesn't kill the virus anyways.
    Does not kill it, gets it off your hands if done in the following manner

    Apparently we touch our faces twenty times an hour. So potentially infected hands means gets in via eyes, nose & mouth.

    What complicates things is air conditioning. Spreads it all over the place so you can breathe it in. Unless you wear a mask and those have only one purpose mostly which is to stop you touching mouth & nose.

    My Dad has COPD and my Mom recently had cancer and my father-in-law seems to have permanent lung damage, so I'm just not leaving the fucking house.
    Data from China based on 70k people showed the death rate for those over 80 is 15%, it halves continuously for each decade lower

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    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Best advice ever:
    Wash your hands as if you just spent an hour dicing jalapeño peppers, and now want to take out your contact lenses.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

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    Three Cheers for HKUST!

    Researchers at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology say they have developed a long-lasting coating that can be sprayed on various surfaces to kill most bacteria and viruses — including the new coronavirus.

    They say the new coating has been proven able to kill 99.9 percent of highly-infectious viruses such as measles and mumps.

    The coating can be applied on a wide range of surfaces such as metals, plastics and fabrics, the researchers say.

    Professor Yeung King-lun from the Department of Chemical and Biological Engineering said their product continues to be effective for up to three months, unlike traditional disinfectant, containing bleach and alcohol.

    "We use a special type of polymers that are actually used in a lot of food products. We reassemble them in a certain way to make them more effective," Yeung said.

    The researchers say they have already found a manufacturer, and the new product has been used in hospitals, schools, daycare centres and elderly homes. They added that the product could hit the market in the next two to four weeks.

    https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/compone...abChangeable=0
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  14. #74
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    To get the board into the right mood. Want to cause some panic then put this on TV for the Friday night movie.

    Last edited by tbm3fan; 11 Mar 20, at 17:23.

  15. #75
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Best advice ever:
    Wash your hands as if you just spent an hour dicing jalapeño peppers, and now want to take out your contact lenses.
    I can tell you first hand that would be obvious but then people still relate to me that they actually did take their soft contacts out without washing their hands after cutting jalapeno peppers. Had one last week. Never, never, underestimate a human...

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