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Thread: COVID-2019 in America, effect on politics and economy

  1. #391
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    NY Governor Andrew Cuomo mentioned a few minutes ago in press conference that the infection doubling interval has slowed from three days toward nearly four days.
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  2. #392
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firestorm View Post
    Sir, the Chinese lockdown was incredibly strict. I mean they were forcibly barricading people in their own homes at one point. We saw the videos.
    Covid positive people or suspected that refused to remain in quarantine. Those that would not adhere to the 'shelter in place' policy in force in Hubei. Repeat offenders. What do you do ?

    I've seen those videos too but what was lacking was the context which i've since figured out.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRT View Post
    NY Governor Andrew Cuomo mentioned a few minutes ago in press conference that the infection doubling interval has slowed from three days toward nearly four days.
    Good news, it needs to go up to a week
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Mar 20, at 17:20.

  3. #393
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    correct, the re-infection threat will remain for the foreseeable future.
    As in China gets re-infected from abroad by a strain that was not made in China and the cycle repeats ?

    that doesn't prevent Xi Jinping from crowing about it, though.
    Watch when people get back to work

    the rural areas are going to get devastated once it hits, given their healthcare systems.
    If people stay away from groups their chances will increase. It's clear to me the spread has occurred because social distancing was not being adhered to

    on a bigger scale, once it really goes into Africa and Brazil, those places are going to turn into complete sh*tshows.
    You know i hear the same thing said about India and i ask people where would they rather be. And the answer is East Asia.

  4. #394
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I think the real question is why is the US case percentage higher than the Chinese?
    Didn't take it seriously enough and act in time. Just like Europe.


    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I am not saying you should trust the Chinese statistics
    But you cannot just reject it wholesale either.

    I find this rejection of Chinese data so knee jerk. Commies lie. It's what they do. Then show me where the lies are.

    Look at them

    Why does the CCP admit to so many in Wuhan & Hubei. Makes the victory that much sweeter if you paint the opponent ten times taller. How does commie psychology work here snapper ?

    Notice the numbers in Taiwan & HK. Can we trust them. If not then Taiwan & HK are lying too. So is Japan.

    Otherwise why is it that other cities in China cannot replicate the same

    When all four have had experience of SARS already.

    That experience is lacking in countries that did not go though it

    Their decision making was slower as a result.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Mar 20, at 18:01.

  5. #395
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    ^ Africa I can understand, but why do you say Brazil?
    high population density -- insanely high in the favelas--, poor healthcare system, and a President who's busy imitating Trump.

    Brazil's gonna get effed so hard in two weeks.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  6. #396
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Rural life is the very definition of social distancing. You litterally had to drive to your next door neighbour.

    You cannot turn Africa into a shitshow when it is already a shitshow. If H1N1 is any example, Africa would neither care nor notice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_f...emic_in_Africa

    Only ebola elicit a national response. COVID-19 is just another flu. The young gets bed ridden. The old dies. That is life in Africa.
    Rural areas still go to churches and they still go to town to go to restaurants. That's enough to get infected, especially if a bunch of people from the city try to flee out there. And those areas have crappy health-care infrastructure that cannot handle a surge in severe respiratory illnesses.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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    Rural life is the very definition of social distancing. You litterally had to drive to your next door neighbour.
    America rural is not northern Saskatchewan rural.

    there's enough medium-sized cities there, like Oklahoma City or Boise or Omaha, that there will still be significant spread.

    You cannot turn Africa into a shitshow when it is already a shitshow. If H1N1 is any example, Africa would neither care nor notice.
    South Africa and Rwanda are already on lockdown. Nigeria's already ordered schools closed. this ain't "neither care nor notice".
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    But you cannot just reject it wholesale either.

    I find this rejection of Chinese data so knee jerk. Commies lie. It's what they do. Then show me where the lies are.

    Why does the CCP admit to so many in Wuhan & Hubei. Makes the victory that much sweeter if you paint the opponent ten times taller. How does commie psychology work here snapper ?
    I am not saying that the Chinese are knowingly lying - though that is also possible - but that in all such things absolutely accurate statistics are nigh on impossible to gather. How do we count Covid 19 deaths? Well first a person has to be tested and known to have the virus and then he/she dies so unless you test 100% of the population others who die, as in Muscovy, are attributed to other causes; flu in Muscovy but could be age. It's like asking how many men did Napoleon invade Muscovy with? Though a real and correct number does exist nobody at the time did or could have accurately counted even had they tried.

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Rural areas still go to churches and they still go to town to go to restaurants.
    All closed.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    there's enough medium-sized cities there, like Oklahoma City or Boise or Omaha, that there will still be significant spread.
    That ain't rural. I'm an hour away from Ottawa and there has been only one COVID-19 case in the next county 2 weeks ago and nothing since. I know it's ancedotic but the math ain't there for a panic about rural areas.

    Also, SOP is always whatever we can't handle, we ship to the nearest available help be it Ottawa, Kingston, or Brockville. It may suck for those cities if being swarned but nowhere in the West have we left people out to die on the streets.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    South Africa and Rwanda are already on lockdown. Nigeria's already ordered schools closed. this ain't "neither care nor notice".
    3 countries out an entire continent is hardly Africa and Rwanda has an ethenic political/military agenda for lockdown and it ain't about COVID-19.

    Again. Looking at this from a military POV, COVID-19 deaths are regrettable, extremely so, but acceptable.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 27 Mar 20, at 18:35.

  10. #400
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    I am not saying that the Chinese are knowingly lying - though that is also possible - but that in all such things absolutely accurate statistics are nigh on impossible to gather.
    it's China and the CCP. they're almost certainly lying, although it's not in the same league as Iran.

    http://shanghaiist.com/2020/03/27/ur...-chinas-tally/
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  11. #401
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    All closed.
    not in the US...quite a few red states have yet to take action.

    That ain't rural. I'm an hour away from Ottawa and there has been only one COVID-19 case in the next county 2 weeks ago and nothing since. I know it's ancedotic but the math ain't there for a panic about rural areas.

    Also, SOP is always whatever we can't handle, we ship to the nearest available help be it Ottawa, Kingston, or Brockville. It may suck for those cities if being swarned but nowhere in the West have we left people out to die on the streets.
    rural for the US. plus, it gets bad enough, even -those- places will get hit. most farmers, after all, buy their stuff from a grocery store like the rest of us.

    3 countries out an entire continent is hardly Africa and Rwanda has an ethenic political/military agenda for lockdown and it ain't about COVID-19.
    we're just arguing semantics at this point. yeah, Africa is messed up in the best of times -- COVID will make it even worse. 3% death rate isn't Black Death, but it's not -nothing-, either.

    Again. Looking at this from a military POV, COVID-19 deaths are regrettable, extremely so, but acceptable.
    in the US context, it is not acceptable at all. people are dying because of poor leadership and poor preparation. we had two months warning and the leadership of this country did squat all with it.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    high population density -- insanely high in the favelas--, poor healthcare system, and a President who's busy imitating Trump.

    Brazil's gonna get effed so hard in two weeks.
    That is India too. We're going to get a high number of COVID-19 cases within this lockdown of 21 days. Healthcare will be overwhelmed by the sick, and many would die. Nobody follows law here or government plea to stay indoors. We're screwed.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    3 countries out an entire continent is hardly Africa and Rwanda has an ethenic political/military agenda for lockdown and it ain't about COVID-19.
    Not just 3 countries. Additional to Eric's list Burkina Faso, DRC, Ethiopia, Kenya, Uganda, Sierra Leone, Guinea, Liberia, Zimbabwe and Lesotho have all taken measures that I am aware of, and there is no reason to believe my list is comprehensive. Measures range from complete lockdown to limiting social gatherings, shutting borders etc. Some of these nations do not yet have a single recorded case, which means they have taken this more seriously than many other nations that are now suffering badly.

    African health ministers gathered for a meeting as early as Feb 22 and the African CDC has been working hard to deliver over 1 million test kits and other equipment, train health care and even aviation workers in appropriate protocols for detection & treatment and set up test labs. Those training programs involve numerous countries not already mentioned (Cape Verde, Malawi, Eswatini, Botswana, Zambia, Sao Tome & Principe, Cameroon, Cote D'Ivoire, Chad, Mauritius, Mauritania, Niger, Ghana, Egypt, Tunisia). There is a continent wide awareness and continent wide action.

    It is true that Africa has many, many problems and that some areas are sufficiently chaotic that pandemics such as this are not going to get treated with the seriousness they deserve. However, to treat the entire continent as if those areas are representative is not simply inaccurate, it is lazy. Well below your usual standards Sir. Africa has a much keener understanding o the danger of epidemics than most places, and in some areas it has experience that few nations have. It also has many more vulnerable people than most places - including 20 million HIV positive people who are especially vulnerable. More than most places Africa knows that failure to stop this early could have very serious repercussions - their health systems can't cope, so better to stop it early. Many African nations are trying to deal with this and many are starting their preparations well ahead of the virus. They may fail, but it won't be because they did not take this seriously.

    https://www.africanews.com/2020/03/2...d-19-pandemic/


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  14. #404
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    it's China and the CCP. they're almost certainly lying, although it's not in the same league as Iran.

    http://shanghaiist.com/2020/03/27/ur...-chinas-tally/
    Death counts might not match up but what about affected ? this is the part i'm watching

    People who get sick and unable to get treatment might just die at home instead of some where else without family around. They won't be counted as covid deaths.

    This means case fatality rate could be higher as a result and will be with the earlier cases that had the more virulent 'L' strain as opposed to the one that came after the 'S' strain.

    You're not poking at their data hard enough i feel : )
    Last edited by Double Edge; 28 Mar 20, at 01:54.

  15. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    not in the US...quite a few red states have yet to take action.
    Even so, if Wuhan City is any example, with a much higher population density, and not knowing anything about COVID-19, in the middle of the Chinese New Year, the Chinese were nowhere to the death rates being portrayed right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    rural for the US. plus, it gets bad enough, even -those- places will get hit. most farmers, after all, buy their stuff from a grocery store like the rest of us.
    Outside of the cities, rural life is quite different. Very few old folks live on the farms. If the next generation don't want the farm, the farm is sold off and the old folks move into old age homes, and those are locked down. You will see a COVID-19 burnout a lot faster than the cities.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    we're just arguing semantics at this point. yeah, Africa is messed up in the best of times -- COVID will make it even worse. 3% death rate isn't Black Death, but it's not -nothing-, either.
    The point is that the Africans don't care, not that they won't die from COVID-19. Do you actually believe no one in Central Africa died from H1N1?

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    in the US context, it is not acceptable at all. people are dying because of poor leadership and poor preparation. we had two months warning and the leadership of this country did squat all with it.
    Of course, everyone could have done better, including the CDC. The point remains that the death rates are nowhere near being portrayed and is still extremely manageable. This is not a civilization collapsing event. Burn out has occurred in China and Italy, both countries who were NOT ready for COVID-19 no matter what Xi said. To say the US will do far, far worst than those countries is just plain fear mongering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    They may fail, but it won't be because they did not take this seriously.

    https://www.africanews.com/2020/03/2...d-19-pandemic/
    Your link proves my point and adding to my link about H1N1. No one believes that there were no H1N1 victims in Central Africa. More than that, Central African countries are still eyeing the Central Reublican Civil War and ethnic strife between the Hutus and the Tutsis are far from over. The Congo Wars ended with no clear victor, leaving no side willing to accept the situation.

    They're far more serious about killing each other than about COVID-19.

    Even Egypt, I count them and South Africa as the more realistic countries in Africa, is not putting resources into the fight, recording 536 cases while next door Israel has over 3,000. You cannot tell me that Egypt is anywhere close to ready to handle COVID-19. Willingly or forced by circumstance, the Egyptians are ignoring COVID-19. You can't treat people for COVID-19 if you don't know they have it. The young gets bed ridden. The old dies and very few people would learn if it's COVID-19 or not. That is just life in Egypt
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 28 Mar 20, at 02:23.

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