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Thread: COVID-2019 in America, effect on politics and economy

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Snapper, can I come aboard your yacht? Never been on a yacht before. Can we fish, do you have fishing rods on the Yacht? I don't know how to swim, I guess life jackets are there if a shark attacks us like in the movies. Can we also make space for the Colonel and Joe and DE, and most members of WAB. I do hope, you store booze, or I can bring in some. From your yacht, we all can witness the end of days. No more Trump for Joe, no more Pak sponsored terrorism for me, no more educating us for the Colonel.
    Negative test for this flu thing and proof then sure. You would also have to get to the Aegean. Can teach you to swim so no problems there. Yes we have fishing rods and diving equipment. No machine gun nest as yet. Two small people aged 2 and 1, my Husband and I and two crew. It's a sailing yacht - not a billionaire motor yacht so you might get sea sick. Making for Lemnos - the first Greek island after the Dardanelles - to stock up on food and booze again (and maybe have a meal ashore) before heading south either for Rodos (Rhodes) or Gavdos (an island south of Crete that is usually pretty abandoned this time of year). Depends how long this business goes on; Kyiv is on 'lock down' and I would have to 'self isolate' for two weeks anyway if I returned to Ukraine now so there is seems little point going back at present. If the situation remains the same when we get south of the Cyclades (Paros, Naxos group of Islands) then I am minded to turn West and make for the Atlantic which I have always wanted to cross. Only really need to restock on provisions and fuel which you can get delivered to the quay and then transport back in the inflatable. Diving with a spear gun in shallower waters produces some good suppers and we have solar, wind and an underwater electric generating system so generally pretty self sustainable apart from booze and veggies. In booze terms have lots of vodka, 5 bottles of malt scotch, 3 Gordons Gin (and tonic to go with), and running short of wine (five bottles left!) and beer. But I buy the local wine normally and am looking forward to grabbing a few cases (or a barrel if I can get one) of retsina, Greek white wine which is very nice when chilled.

    Nor do I use disposable 'diapers' for my Son (the youngest) while my Daughter is potty trained. Just means drying the nappies can sometimes be hard if it rains etc... I wash the nappies over the side first - an hour or so trailing in the sea - and then rinse them with powder in the shower, then hang them up the masts to dry (where you would normally fly a courtesy ensign so like a small Greek flag when visiting a Greek harbour). I registered her (a yacht is a she) in England so we fly the red ensign (not the white which is reserved for the RN and I believe the Royal Yacht Squadron).

    If anyone really fancies escaping this pandemic - though by and large I agree with the Colonel that is really a rather small thing and not an existential crisis and am only doing this for my children's sake - and can get a test that proves negative and wants to join us we have another 6 berths (beds) free, 8 including the main cabin seating area that can be converted into a double berth. Don't know how long we shall keep going on for but if you want to...

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Yeah, I will go for a swim before you get out of the harbour. I ain't going to be stuck changing diapers again.
    I would not let you change our sons nappy.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Negative test for this flu thing and proof then sure. You would also have to get to the Aegean. Can teach you to swim so no problems there. Yes we have fishing rods and diving equipment. No machine gun nest as yet. Two small people aged 2 and 1, my Husband and I and two crew. It's a sailing yacht - not a billionaire motor yacht so you might get sea sick. Making for Lemnos - the first Greek island after the Dardanelles - to stock up on food and booze again (and maybe have a meal ashore) before heading south either for Rodos (Rhodes) or Gavdos (an island south of Crete that is usually pretty abandoned this time of year). Depends how long this business goes on; Kyiv is on 'lock down' and I would have to 'self isolate' for two weeks anyway if I returned to Ukraine now so there is seems little point going back at present. If the situation remains the same when we get south of the Cyclades (Paros, Naxos group of Islands) then I am minded to turn West and make for the Atlantic which I have always wanted to cross. Only really need to restock on provisions and fuel which you can get delivered to the quay and then transport back in the inflatable. Diving with a spear gun in shallower waters produces some good suppers and we have solar, wind and an underwater electric generating system so generally pretty self sustainable apart from booze and veggies. In booze terms have lots of vodka, 5 bottles of malt scotch, 3 Gordons Gin (and tonic to go with), and running short of wine (five bottles left!) and beer. But I buy the local wine normally and am looking forward to grabbing a few cases (or a barrel if I can get one) of retsina, Greek white wine which is very nice when chilled.

    Nor do I use disposable 'diapers' for my Son (the youngest) while my Daughter is potty trained. Just means drying the nappies can sometimes be hard if it rains etc... I wash the nappies over the side first - an hour or so trailing in the sea - and then rinse them with powder in the shower, then hang them up the masts to dry (where you would normally fly a courtesy ensign so like a small Greek flag when visiting a Greek harbour). I registered her (a yacht is a she) in England so we fly the red ensign (not the white which is reserved for the RN and I believe the Royal Yacht Squadron).

    If anyone really fancies escaping this pandemic - though by and large I agree with the Colonel that is really a rather small thing and not an existential crisis and am only doing this for my children's sake - and can get a test that proves negative and wants to join us we have another 6 berths (beds) free, 8 including the main cabin seating area that can be converted into a double berth. Don't know how long we shall keep going on for but if you want to...
    Hmm, I wonder if there are any plane flights going anywhere right now...?

    I believe you will be on your own. Oh, instead of a machine gun nest maybe a quad Bofors would be more effective.

  4. #214
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Not you too. Safe is not being stupid. I just had breakfast with 4 other people (2 of them police on break) on an outside table. We were less than a metre away from each other. None of us wore masks but none of us were sick. We had our coffees and our breakfast sandwiches. We were all former military sharing war stories. One was knee deep in cow piss. One had used a manure pile as cover. None of us have or ever had COVID-19. How do we know this? 690 confirmed cases in Canada out of a population of 27 million. Doing the math should tell you the odds of 4 healthy males in rural Ontario having it.

    Afterwards, we cleaned up our mess because Tim Horton staff isn't going to do it and then went to wash our hands.
    Rural means fewer people.

    How's supplies where you are. Find everything you want ?

    How it gets to you is things you find normally suddenly seem in short supply.

    I was looking for rice a week back from my usual online source and found it out of stock. Headed off to the local super market and picked some up.

    When i was walking there i noticed quite a few people in the street wearing masks. Then in the shop i found a few more.

    I just wanted to get out of the shop as soon as i could because seeing those masks made me feel anxious. I'm ok without a mask outdoors.

    Few days later its back in stock so all good so far. I think i want to build a stock of rice now. And soap. Two weeks worth.

    As for cases in Canada, watch how long it takes to double. Doubling every week means no community spread.

    It will continue some and then level out and then drop like is happening in China & SK.

    Whether any Americans got infected in Canada or any people showing symptoms after leaving Canada. If you don't find any or few that also means no community spread.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Mar 20, at 20:14.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    yes, this malaria fighting is how the gin & tonic was created


    See bolded ; )



    Dumb when it comes to cornonavirus but there is a history to it.

    Fighting water borne illness by having a drink after every meal is another example.
    What about if you drink 4 litres of tonic? I don't know, most likely you are right, but I don't have the symptoms of what ever tried to attack me. We will see. Situation here is quite serious and new measures are implemented. Most likely the same will be in the US.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Rural means fewer people.
    We would have done the same thing in downtown Ottawa or Toronto. The streets are empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    How's supplies where you are. Find everything you want ?
    Toilet paper, peroxide, paper towels, bleech, rubbing alcohol are running low.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    How it gets to you is things you find normally suddenly seem in short supply.
    I've still got one third of a cow in my freezer. Bought half a cow about 18 months ago. Plus a deer hind from last year's hunt. Still got around 18 kgs of rice from 2 months ago. 50 lbs of potatoes before all this hoopla started. Fruits and vegetables I buy fresh and whatever is available. I don't sweat it they're not there.

    Field dis-infectant. Boiling water. Went to the hardware store and got a pair of industrial insulated rubber gloves. Some laundry detergent and wiped the service with boiling water and let dry. Plenty of soap at home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    When i was walking there i noticed quite a few people in the street wearing masks. Then in the shop i found a few more.

    I just wanted to get out of the shop as soon as i could because seeing those masks made me feel anxious. I'm ok without a mask outdoors.
    I guess ex-military just don't get freaked out over this. Like I said, better odds than line infantry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    As for cases in Canada, watch how long it takes to double. Doubling every week means no community spread.

    It will continue some and then level out and then drop like is happening in China & SK.

    Whether any Americans got infected in Canada or any people showing symptoms after leaving Canada. If you don't find any or few that also means no community spread.
    There are community spread as in some infected did not come into contact with known suspect sources but the numbers are not anywhere near what I would call uncontrollable.

  7. #217
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    Mayport Sailor and 2nd Sailor Assigned to USS Boxer (LHD-4) Confirmed with Coronavirus

    By: Sam LaGrone
    March 18, 2020
    USNI

    THE PENTAGON — A second sailor assigned to USS Boxer (LHD-4) and a sailor assigned to a Mayport, Fla.-based helicopter squadron have tested positive for the COVID-19 virus, the Navy announced on Wednesday.

    The sailor from Boxer is the second from the ship following an initial March 13 case from the big deck amphib.

    “There is no indication that the sailors were in close contact aboard the ship. Also, the sailors work in two different departments,” the Navy said in a statement.

    “The sailor is currently isolated at their home and restricted in movement in accordance with the Center for Disease Control and Prevention Guidelines.”

    Also on Wednesday, a sailor from the “Vipers” Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron (HSM) 48 tested positive for the virus.

    “Military health professionals are in the process of conducting a thorough contact investigation to determine whether any other personnel may have been in close contact and possibly exposed. At this time there is no indication the sailor had contact with any other members of the squadron,” read the statement from the Navy.

    On Tuesday, the Navy announced that a sailor aboard USS Ralph Johnson (DDG-114), a sailor aboard USS Coronado (LCS-4) and a staff member on U.S. 2nd Fleet was diagnosed with COVID-19.

    Across the Department of Defense, 49 service members, 14 military civilians, 19 dependents and 7 contractors have tested positive for the COVID-19 virus, DoD spokesman Jonathan Hoffman told reporters on Wednesday.

    (SNIP)

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  8. #218
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    I would not bank on vaccines and I would not necessarily bank on herd immunity, either. Right now we do not have any vaccines for human coronaviruses. We obviously will try VERY hard for this one, but we've been trying on MERS and SARS for quite a while and have not succeeded on either: the vaccine being tested for COVID-19 in Seattle right now was originally designed for MERS. There's a good chance none of these are going to work. There's also a chance that there will be negative side effects that are really nasty.

    Also, just because you get a sickness does NOT mean you cannot get it again. The adaptive immune system sometimes has an inadequate response to future exposures, and you might just lose the anti-bodies regardless. A twitter thread I read about this issue suggested humans infected with a DIFFERENT coronavirus strain still were susceptible to contagion a year later. 1/3 of those challenged with the same strain got the illness again.

    Normally that wouldn't be a huge deal, but there's a major possibility with THIS disease that extremely small exposures can result in massive problems for the healthcare system. It basically means permanent vigilance otherwise this thing will take hold again.

    We just don't know how this disease will operate yet.

    Also, 3 coronaviruses have species-jumped in the last 20 years. There are reservoirs of other coronaviruses that might jump and cause this impact again. A vaccine isn't a solution to that, we need to adapt our behavior and our institutions so we can respond more quickly next time.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  9. #219
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    We're looking at the wrong side of a Great Depression, and a lot of states and localities have limited fiscal capacity. I'm not really sure how IL and Chicago are going to come out of this financially, even if the US government has practically unlimited borrowing capacity at the moment.
    2nd shot

    USG back in '29 made every mistake in the book

    - Tightened monetary policy
    - Raised taxes
    - Increased regulations
    - there was a trade war on

    Today

    - they are easing
    - not raising taxes
    - decreasing regulations
    - trade war or whatever is left of it is over

  10. #220
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    Well, the portal I've been working for, dealt with something like this, 3 years ago and it takes longer chain of events into the account.

    This virus outbreak is in essence, the end of globalism and global economy. However, there is a much deeper story behind this and it does enter into the realm of conspiracy theories. I am not an expert on economy (actually I am not an expert in anything, except making myself miserable with wrong choices) but it cannot go unnoticed that the quality of the goods and certain, trust, in the manufacturers has been steadily declining from the 60es till today. In that light, the lines have been drawn in the sand between two parties, the money makers aka "the bankers", "the black nobility" or Phoenicians as my portal likes to call them and the industrial base moguls and barons, aka the industrialists. What has happened was that the money makers got carried away, by over printing money and erecting schemes how to keep the jive about money making, trough various schemes and swindles and slowly demeaning the very definition of productive work. In other words, making products cheaper but selling them with the higher price and making profit, seemed to be a good deal and making the world richer thus increasing the consumer base, seemed to be the right way to go. Except it wasn't.
    Global economy has a point only if you have another planet or planets to trade with and since we haven't fount E.T.'s the idea of global economy lead to a simple situation that appeared during the 90es in Yugoslavia when it was placed under sanctions. Globalization in essence placed sanctions on the entire planet. One of the first consequences of economic sanctions was inflation and than hyper inflation. Second consequence was the war. Both of these two factors are present on the global scale and it became clear that if it was allowed to continue it will lead to an disaster. Hence, the reset switch was activated.
    The chain of events went something like this. The virus emerged in China. That crippled the China's economy and since the China is the world's factory it crippled the World's economy. However there is a catch. As the markets tumbled down, the China went and re take its companies and acquired new, increasing its level of sovereignty. Than it sold gold and that lead to the drop in the price of gold. Soon after, the Russia made its little OPEC stunt and that left oil prices drop. All these measures were aimed to bring the "money makers" to their senses. The "money makers" had only one choice and that is the "helicopter money". Now they will shower the world with money, free money but it won't help. It is over.
    The back of the so called "global economy" is broken and there is nothing that can be done any more. I think that we are entering into a new age and that Covid 19 is its opening act. It will be painful and there will be loses but at the end, the new system will be a bit more sane and realistic.

  11. #221
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    We would have done the same thing in downtown Ottawa or Toronto. The streets are empty.

    Toilet paper, peroxide, paper towels, bleech, rubbing alcohol are running low.

    I've still got one third of a cow in my freezer. Bought half a cow about 18 months ago. Plus a deer hind from last year's hunt. Still got around 18 kgs of rice from 2 months ago. 50 lbs of potatoes before all this hoopla started. Fruits and vegetables I buy fresh and whatever is available. I don't sweat it they're not there.

    Field dis-infectant. Boiling water. Went to the hardware store and got a pair of industrial insulated rubber gloves. Some laundry detergent and wiped the service with boiling water and let dry. Plenty of soap at home.

    Field dis-infectant. Boiling water. Went to the hardware store and got a pair of industrial insulated rubber gloves. Some laundry detergent and wiped the service with boiling water and let dry. Plenty of soap at home.
    Wow, you're good for a while for food.


    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    None of us have or ever had COVID-19. How do we know this? 690 confirmed cases in Canada out of a population of 27 million. Doing the math should tell you the odds of 4 healthy males in rural Ontario having it.
    Right now the number is 804 so presently Canada has 30 infected per million.

    They will have been told to self isolate so you won't meet any.

    The real number could potentially be around 7,000 out there

    Odds of meeting one in real life are 1 in 3,000

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    I guess ex-military just don't get freaked out over this. Like I said, better odds than line infantry.
    What are the odds of surviving line infantry. One in ten ?


    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    There are community spread as in some infected did not come into contact with known suspect sources but the numbers are not anywhere near what I would call uncontrollable.
    COVID-19 Canadian Outbreak Tracker

    See the graph under the map ? there's two tabs under called 'Case Origin' & 'Case Accumulation'

    'Case accumulation; does not show an hockey stick graph, more like an S curve and seems to be leveling already.

    Have to watch this case graph over the next week. Imagine if it stays flat end next week as well. WOW moment !

    Under Case origin

    From Mar 17 to Mar 18, infected doubles

    From Mar 15 to Mat 17, infected doubles

    Doubling at that rate means there is community spread.

    You found so many because Canada has conducted over 55k tests so far. Or a max of 27k patients tested.

    Canada conducted as many because they suspect community spread.

    From the 19th on the number of cases found drops. I don't know why.

    For now, things appear to be still under control in Canada : )
    Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Mar 20, at 02:28.

  12. #222
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    Anyone else having problems getting their parents to properly self-isolate?

    My parents just don't seem to give a hoot.

  13. #223
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    Would love to know why JLTVs are being railroaded through my hometown in the NW suburbs of Chicago.

    https://www.facebook.com/1183766336/...481294650/?d=n

    Don't see this every day up there, that's for damn sure.
    TwentyFiveFortyFive

  14. #224
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Anyone else having problems getting their parents to properly self-isolate?

    My parents just don't seem to give a hoot.
    I heard Boris Johnson's father is the same

    If he wants to go to the pub he jolly well will.

    He makes statements at complete variance with what the UK govt says.

    There is clear difference in approach between the UK & US and by extension wider world when it comes to dealing with this crisis.

    Schools aren't being closed in the UK. So they say no herd immunity policy but its not quite herd immunity free.

    I see shades of this with the Indian approach too but for a different reason.

    Will only test symptomatic patients right now. This means unless you go in with a problem they won't know about you. You will only do so if things become uncomfortable.

    They see the 80% mild infection stat and think people will get over it on their own at home if needed. Hence they aren't going all out with tests like other countries.

    They see 80% of infected as mild not necessary to bother with.

    But those people can still infect others as well and this will in turn increase the number of serious & critical in proportion.

    They are tracking people who arrived from abroad quite closely though.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Mar 20, at 02:20.

  15. #225
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Would love to know why JLTVs are being railroaded through my hometown in the NW suburbs of Chicago.

    https://www.facebook.com/1183766336/...481294650/?d=n

    Don't see this every day up there, that's for damn sure.
    Lockdown?
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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