Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Sinn Fein Scores a stunning upset in Irish Elections

  1. #1
    Global Moderator
    Military Professional
    Defense Professional
    Albany Rifles's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Apr 07
    Location
    Prince George, VA
    Posts
    8,943

    Sinn Fein Scores a stunning upset in Irish Elections

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/10/europ...ntl/index.html

    Sinn Fein surged in Ireland's election. Here's why that's so controversial
    Nic Robertson-Profile-Image
    Analysis by Nic Robertson, International Diplomatic Editor, CNN

    Updated 7:49 AM ET, Mon February 10, 2020


    Sinn Féin wins most seats in Irish election as count continues 00:36
    London (CNN)Political outsiders Sinn Fein stole the show in Ireland's general election over the weekend.

    The votes are still being counted but this left-wing, Irish nationalist party has pulled off a major political upset, breaking a century of dominance by establishment heavyweight parties (Fine Gael and Fianna Fail) and changing the political landscape of Ireland likely forever.
    Here's what you need to know.
    Does it mean Sinn Fein will be in power?
    Sinn Fein won the most first-preference votes in Ireland's complex single-transferable-vote electoral system, but as they only fielded 42 candidates for 160 seats in the Dail (parliament), they are unlikely to be the largest party and therefore may not get to pick a new government or be invited to join one.
    Why is Sinn Fein so controversial?
    Sinn Fein appeared to have pulled off a major rebranding, seemingly burying their past as a party long accused of aligning with terrorism and violence.
    Sinn Fein, although they repeatedly denied it, were the political wing of the IRA (the Irish Republican Army), who fought a bloody three-decade military campaign to throw the British out of Northern Ireland and unite the island of Ireland.
    What were "The Troubles?"
    The violence was known in an oddly understated way as "The Troubles," yet more than 3,500 people died and many more had their lives irrevocably changed.
    The IRA was at the forefront of the conflict -- killing, bombing, shooting and intimidating their way to influence. They had grown out of a demand for equality in Northern Ireland's deeply bigoted society that often gave advantages to Protestants over Catholics.
    As one of Sinn Fein's early politicians said -- they would rise through the Armalite [gun] and the ballot paper.
    How has Sinn Fein rebranded itself and is it really a different party?
    The moment Northern Ireland's Good Friday Agreement was signed in 1998, Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams pivoted south of the border rather than take a plum job in the north. He has always denied he was an IRA commander and saw that the political path to his years-long struggle for a united Ireland ran through Dublin. He has shaped the party accordingly, bringing in younger, less tainted politicians and leaders.
    Two years ago, Adams stepped back as party president and did not run in this election after serving as a TD (or member of parliament) in Dublin for almost a decade.
    The party surged through its grassroots activism around issues that captured voters' attention -- housing, homelessness and healthcare -- and their demands for change matured alongside a generation that never witnessed their violent roots. Even so, one their first elected TDs this weekend was a former IRA member, whose supporters sang rebel songs at the count center to celebrate his success.
    Are Sinn Fein's gains likely to have an impact on Brexit talks?
    Absolutely. Sinn Fein are now the only Irish party with major political influence both north and south of the Irish border, the European Union's new land border with the United Kingdom. Such is the seismic shift in Irish politics that Sinn Fein's demand for a united Ireland will be heard louder.
    This will drive up growing Unionist fears in Northern Ireland, so whether he likes it or not, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson's Brexit considerations will have to deal with this reality. Perhaps more directly, an Irish government with ardently pro-united Ireland Sinn Fein inside of it, or even in strong opposition to it, could stiffen the EU's resolve on negotiations and therefore limit potential concessions to the British.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

  2. #2
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    10,067
    Are Sinn Fein's gains likely to have an impact on Brexit talks?
    Absolutely. Sinn Fein are now the only Irish party with major political influence both north and south of the Irish border, the European Union's new land border with the United Kingdom. Such is the seismic shift in Irish politics that Sinn Fein's demand for a united Ireland will be heard louder.
    And so what ???

    This will drive up growing Unionist fears in Northern Ireland, so whether he likes it or not, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson's Brexit considerations will have to deal with this reality. Perhaps more directly, an Irish government with ardently pro-united Ireland Sinn Fein inside of it, or even in strong opposition to it, could stiffen the EU's resolve on negotiations and therefore limit potential concessions to the British.
    I don't recall Dublin ever being an issue in Brexit.

    The issue was with the EU border. Irish backstop or whatever

    How that gets worked our is between London & Brussels not Dublin.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Feb 20, at 21:11.

  3. #3
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    17,092
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    And so what ???



    I don't recall Ireland ever being an issue in Brexit.

    The issue was with the EU border. Irish backstop or whatever

    How that gets worked our is between London & Brussels not Dublin.
    Watch this brief video, it'll explain how Ireland has always been an issue with Brexit, and a major issue at that.

    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  4. #4
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    10,067
    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Watch this brief video, it'll explain how Ireland has always been an issue with Brexit, and a major issue at that.

    You showed me that helpful video six months back too. Situation remains as is

    My question is how does Sinn Fein becoming more prominent affect things ? does it even matter

    Opening article does not really explain that other than assert

  5. #5
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    17,092
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    You showed me that helpful video six months back too. Situation remains as is

    My question is how does Sinn Fein becoming more prominent affect things ? does it even matter

    Opening article does not really explain that other than assert
    Watch the video again, but keep in mind the following facts:

    • Sinn Fein is the major proponent of Irish reunification
    • Sinn Fein now has a stunning electoral victory in the Republic of Ireland
    • Northern Ireland voted 55.8% to 44.2% to Remain in the EU


    Draw a few possible conclusions.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  6. #6
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    10,067
    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Watch the video again, but keep in mind the following facts:

    • Sinn Fein is the major proponent of Irish reunification
    • Sinn Fein now has a stunning electoral victory in the Republic of Ireland
    • Northern Ireland voted 55.8% to 44.2% to Remain in the EU


    Draw a few possible conclusions.
    Ireland isn't the one insisting on a hard border with the UK, the EU is.

    There is nothing to conclude here. Sinn Fein or no Sinn Fein.

    NI isn't breaking away no matter how badly some want it.

  7. #7
    Global Moderator
    Military Professional
    Defense Professional
    Albany Rifles's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Apr 07
    Location
    Prince George, VA
    Posts
    8,943
    DE,

    The Irish, North & Republic, do not want a hard border. They have enjoyed the open border that the EU has brought. It has helped bleed off the sectarian tensions of The Troubles.

    The Hard Border is a negotiation point between the EU & UK, true. But the Irish want a major say in what that outcome will be...as they are the ones who have to live with it.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

  8. #8
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    10,067
    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    DE,

    The Irish, North & Republic, do not want a hard border. They have enjoyed the open border that the EU has brought. It has helped bleed off the sectarian tensions of The Troubles.
    Exactly and Sinn Fein does not change anything here

    The Hard Border is a negotiation point between the EU & UK, true. But the Irish want a major say in what that outcome will be...as they are the ones who have to live with it.
    Brits too. Lost Mountbatten, almost lost Maggie.

    All those IRA terror attacks...
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Feb 20, at 00:02.

  9. #9
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    01 Nov 09
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    3,878
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Exactly and Sinn Fein does not change anything here


    Brits too. Lost Mountbatten, almost lost Maggie.

    All those IRA terror attacks...
    It is unfortunate about those events. Yet, don't ever think that those events outweigh what the British have done to the Irish over many, many centuries. Ireland should be one.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #10
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    10,067
    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    It is unfortunate about those events.
    I said that to indicate British resolve.

    I'm having a go at Nick Robertson for indulging in separatist rhetoric. Does he forget that prior to the Good Friday agreement, whenever Gerry Adams showed up on TV, we only saw a head moving, his voice was always blanked out because they would not give him a chance to air his propaganda on British TV.

    Yet, don't ever think that those events outweigh what the British have done to the Irish over many, many centuries. Ireland should be one.
    There is some one in every corner of the planet with similar sentiment against the Brits for the past.

    The way Blair addressed this particular sentiment was by saying he was not in charge back then : )
    Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Feb 20, at 14:36.

  11. #11
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    01 Nov 09
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    3,878
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post

    There is some one in every corner of the planet with similar sentiment against the Brits for the past.
    I agree with that. Wherever the British went they brought their I am superior point of view for one. Next, those lands main purpose was to funnel their resources and money to Britain leaving said place poorer. Definitely in Asia, the Sub-Continent, Africa, Middle East, heck everywhere they went being blunt. The world is still living with that today.

  12. #12
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Aug 08
    Location
    UK/Europe
    Posts
    5,481
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    You showed me that helpful video six months back too. Situation remains as is

    My question is how does Sinn Fein becoming more prominent affect things ? does it even matter
    Under the current 'leaving the EU' law (now) Northern Ireland remains in the EU Customs Union so no wall between N.Ireland and the Republic of Ireland but checks on goods coming from N.Ireland to the UK mainland.

    Another hard thing, as I understand it, is the maths of the numbers of the MPs in Irish Parliament. Fianna Fáil got 38 seats, Sinn Féin 37, Fine Gael 35 and 'others' (Greens, Labour Party, Social Democrats, and various others) 31 seats. Fianna Fáil have said they will have nothing to do with Sinn Féin due to their terrorist past but even with all the 'others' (which it would be almost impossible to get) supporting them Sinn Féin could still not get a majority. So it seems it may take some time before negotiations bring about a workable Government.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. perception of Sinn Fein/IRA in north america?
    By dave angel in forum International Politics
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01 Apr 05,, 02:00

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •