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Thread: Coronavirus: the Chinese Political Angle

  1. #121
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Last edited by Oracle; 01 Apr 20, at 17:13.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  2. #122
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Wet markets have opened in China. Sometimes I wish I lived in China. Long time, I had turtle meat.

    This petition is probably from years earlier, but people are commenting on it now. Must be a PETA/Veg dude.

    Regulations and hygiene are needed, don't support outright banning of anything.
    Last edited by Oracle; 02 Apr 20, at 14:20.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  3. #123
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    ICJ moves UNHRC against China for Covid-19 reparations

    Just for show, but it will probably damage Xi's ego to some extent. Why would the Chinese create this virus and damage their own economy. That ICJ took up this case smacks of wilful ignorance.
    Last edited by Oracle; 03 Apr 20, at 16:06.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  4. #124
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Wet markets have opened in China. Sometimes I wish I lived in China. Long time, I had turtle meat.

    This petition is probably from years earlier, but people are commenting on it now. Must be a PETA/Veg dude.

    Regulations and hygiene are needed, don't support outright banning of anything.
    How long since you’ve had hepatitis?
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  5. #125
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Wuhan guy goes over to Hankou which is a town away over the river Yangtze to meet his m-i-l that his wife has not seen in over two months. As they are about to return they get stopped by cops. They want to see his health pass. Since he's a Brit but living there seven years now, he still hasn't got one yet. After the wife argues a bit they decide to let him pass



    Surgical masks appears to be standard issue for Wuhan city police

    This got me thinking about this health pass system they have in Wuhan. Its colour coded, green for not infected, yellow for recovered and red for infected. Apparently you can apply for these passes with the wechat app. They do a hell of a lot over wechat in China.

    He said he's applied for one now so a week later this won't be an issue.

    How effective is such a system. I don't know the extent of the checks system. Whether at the town level or county level. In Wuhan it seems to be at the town level. So at the town limits every one that crosses over needs to show their pass.

    How easy is this system to game. If you've never been tested you opt for green. You have green until you develop symptoms and need to seek medical help. You then go into red. At this point you cannot exceed your home town. Once you recover you get into yellow. I don't know how long you remain at yellow and when you move on to green. Maybe a doctor needs to approve that.

    For now there is no requirement to get tested to get a pass. But they are encouraged to do so. Wuhan is a city of 11 million. It's like Bangalore in a way, tech city and as populated. That's a hell of a lot of people to test. Even more so if this requirements' scaled up to the provincial and then country level.

    China is testing at the rate of over a million a week. Which means in a thousand weeks they will get to everyone ? can't be.

    The immediate benefit is keeping the reds from infecting the rest. Ironic in more ways than one given this is China we're talking about : )

    It allows life to slowly resume while keeping infected contained. How is China getting back to work. This is how.

    Hard to say how feasible implementing a similar system in other countries will be.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 04 Apr 20, at 02:58.

  6. #126
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    How long since you’ve had hepatitis?
    24 years. I don't get the connection here.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  7. #127
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    24 years. I don't get the connection here.
    Hygiene.
    It isn't quite the same habit among food handlers in rural China as it might be in Singapore.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  8. #128
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Hygiene.
    It isn't quite the same habit among food handlers in rural China as it might be in Singapore.
    I already mentioned regulations and hygiene.

    As about food handlers, tight regulations are a must if we are to avoid another coronavirus. But that can't be the reason of banning meat altogether. I have grown up eating exotic meat - porcupine, pangolin, turtle and many more + etcetera, it's just that with wildlife regulations in India, those are not that common now.

    Every winter, deer meat is available, no one knows and no one cares. If the GoI made licenses available to run a deer farm, those would not be hunted. A fine balance is needed.

    P.S.: I don't think anyone will get hepatitis eating meat that is poorly handled. I had hepatitis drinking underground water without filtering it. Didn't knew it back than, but from then on, only bottled water.
    Last edited by Oracle; 04 Apr 20, at 10:30.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Hygiene.
    It isn't quite the same habit among food handlers in rural China as it might be in Singapore.
    What? Simple knowledge from any hunter since the days of how to make fire. Cook any kill thoroughly.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 04 Apr 20, at 10:46.

  10. #130
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    What? Simple knowledge from any hunter since the days of how to make fire. Cook any kill thoroughly.
    Yeah, I don't eat meat raw. If corona type virus is not present in the meat, and it is cooked properly, it is fit for consumption. Never heard of getting hepatitis through meat ever.

    DOR, are you veg? Are you PETA member? :D
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  11. #131
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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  12. #132
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Yeah, I don't eat meat raw. If corona type virus is not present in the meat, and it is cooked properly, it is fit for consumption. Never heard of getting hepatitis through meat ever.

    DOR, are you veg? Are you PETA member? :D
    No, I'm a BBQ and ACLU guy.
    It's the coffee can full of chopsticks that have been rinsed -- not washed -- under cold water that will get you. And, that's the norm, in my experience, in places that operate under the radar. Unlicensed, or otherwise not anxious to have any health authorities poking around.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  13. #133
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    P.S.: I don't think anyone will get hepatitis eating meat that is poorly handled. I had hepatitis drinking underground water without filtering it. Didn't knew it back than, but from then on, only bottled water.
    Had a relative catch it the same way. Drinking water in a restaurant. This was over two decades ago though.

  14. #134
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.
    Wuhan makes up 60% of China's total (50k). With Hubei it takes it 80% (67k)

    The numbers are already very high. They are plausible.

    Balls on accurate ? no but in the right ball park perhaps off by a factor not an order of magnitude.


    No complete picture of the virus exists anywhere because of factors beyond government suppression, including testing shortages, varying measurement standards and asymptomatic infections that could account for up to 1 in 4 coronavirus cases.
    Another 40k were left out because they were aymptomatic. They changed their counting method in mid Feb.

    The US intelligence about understated numbers predates recent reporting in the Chinese news media that the death count in Wuhan could be 5,000 or more, double the official number. Intelligence officers have not verified the news media reports and have left them out of their reports, according to people briefed on their work.
    Official death count for Wuhan alone is 2,567. Again a very high number to be reported.

    The mean time to death from getting infected is only 17 days. At the beginning when the outbreak began there were no test kits. How to say with confidence that this or that death was a C19 death and not something else. It's not obvious. And when the tests showed up they were unreliable. Though i would think the viral load would be high in the case of a death so less ambiguous.

    Could it be 5k ? yes but not in the tens of k's

    The part all want to know is how the rest of China managed.

    Big cities like Shanghai & Beijing were not locked down yet their numbers of affected are low.

    More than half of Shanghai's affected are imported and by visitors.

    How much under reporting took place outside Hubei.

    HK has twice the affected having one third the population of Taiwan. What's happening there.

    HK matters because of its density. How did they control it.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 04 Apr 20, at 16:36.

  15. #135
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    No, I'm a BBQ and ACLU guy.
    It's the coffee can full of chopsticks that have been rinsed -- not washed -- under cold water that will get you. And, that's the norm, in my experience, in places that operate under the radar. Unlicensed, or otherwise not anxious to have any health authorities poking around.
    I understand that. But meat doesn't get you hepatitis, atleast I haven't come across anyone who did.

    I think you're a PETA guy. Otherwise why would you comment on exotic meat eating. Closet PETA guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Had a relative catch it the same way. Drinking water in a restaurant. This was over two decades ago though.
    So, in a restaurant, order packaged drinking water. You never know where that jug went to fetch the water. In my work life too, I used to buy 2 packaged water bottles of 1 litre each everyday. Colleagues used to say, why not fill you jar from the pantry. I used to say no thanks, lesson learnt early in life. The point is, if you can spend a tiny bit of your money to have safe drinking water, do that. It will save you'll a lot of visits to the clinic later, and if unlucky a lot of money too, specially in 3rd world countries.

    Talking about meat, I had my last bit of chicken yesterday. Have to manage with fish from now on. DE, my cousin who's in Bangalore tells me that meat is available there (INR 20/kilo of chicken). Only booze shops are closed.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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