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Thread: Coronavirus: the Chinese Political Angle

  1. #106
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    Note how the Chinese actually counted the infected. They didn't test everyone. How could they? 80,000 kits?

    Do recall what they did. They went back to the patient records. If you have the symptons, you're infected and quarrantined - never mind influenza have exactly the same symptons. The other cities are doing what the rest of the world is doing. You're sick but young and healthy? Go home and self-quarrantine yourself. City administrators may not feel the need to follow Wuhan's example and decliare a COVID-19 outbreak, especially after seeing what it did to Wuhan's economy.

  2. #107
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Note how the Chinese actually counted the infected. They didn't test everyone. How could they? 80,000 kits?
    Depends on the kit. But some allow up to 100 tests which need to be completed in 3 days or the reagents expire.

    This is why countries are doing mass testing of the public across the country.

    China has been doing the same, their test capacity I heard is at 1.5 million tests per week.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Do recall what they did. They went back to the patient records. If you have the symptons, you're infected and quarrantined - never mind influenza have exactly the same symptons. The other cities are doing what the rest of the world is doing. You're sick but young and healthy? Go home and self-quarrantine yourself. City administrators may not feel the need to follow Wuhan's example and decliare a COVID-19 outbreak, especially after seeing what it did to Wuhan's economy.
    Fine and this was certainly done in Wuhan too. Yet they were all recorded

    But elsewhere that was not the case ?

    This is the part that raises questions about number of cases from elsewhere in China.

    We also see similar in cities of Hubei province. All of them added 17k to Wuhan's 50k for a total of 67k for Hubei

    And the entire the country added just 13k more to bring China's total slightly over 80k

    That is to say fewer cases were found in all of China than Hubei minus Wuhan
    Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Mar 20, at 20:30.

  3. #108
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    The problem with test kits i've heard from Indian doctors is the possibility of false negatives

    80% of Rapid COVID-19 Tests the Czech Republic Bought From China are Wrong | Prague Morning | Mar 26 2000

    We double check positives

    NY doctors have said the same too.

    There are two tests one test for the presence of the virus and the other tests for presence of antibodies in the system.

    The first one tells you yes or no and nothing more and can produce different results the next day,

    The antigen test is more reliable but that one is still in the works.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Mar 20, at 20:23.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Depends on the kit. But some allow up to 100 tests which need to be completed in 3 days or the reagents expire.

    This is why countries are doing mass testing of the public across the country.

    China has been doing the same, their test capacity I heard is at 1.5 million tests per week.
    From zero knowledge of the virus to within a month? Hardly. Later in time, most certainly but not at the beginning of the crisis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Fine and this was certainly done in Wuhan too. Yet they were all recorded

    But elsewhere that was not the case ?
    Yes, they were but they're listed as influenza or the common cold instead of COVID-19. Do note most people can tough out COVID-19 with over the counter medication. No test positive and therefore, no need to record as COVID-19.

  5. #110
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    From zero knowledge of the virus to within a month? Hardly. Later in time, most certainly but not at the beginning of the crisis.
    Oh! true at the start there were no test kits.

    Later on, you're saying they went through the earlier records and if people had the symptoms they were recorded as affected without any more confirmation.

    Later, once the kits become available that number would also be added.

    Yes, they were but they're listed as influenza or the common cold instead of COVID-19. Do note most people can tough out COVID-19 with over the counter medication. No test positive and therefore, no need to record as COVID-19.
    Where did you read it was recorded instead as influenza & common cold for other cities instead of covid-19 ?

    If that is the case then those recorded outside Wuhan are serious & critical only. These people would have been tested.

    The mildly infected were let off as you said with home quarantine and don't show up in the covid list for other cities.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Mar 20, at 22:09.

  6. #111
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Beijing blocks UNSC meet on coronavirus

    ROFL! Estonia? Finger China all you want now. They want talks on Kashmir, for their terrorist poodle Pakistan. Bigots.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  7. #112
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    They've opened the border with Macao. Let's see how the second wave pans out



    This is the scene at an airport in China. People who were overseas returning back to China. I fear a second wave is just around the corner.

    The video was taken in March 27, at the HengQin border, Zhuhai City, Guangdong province. They (most of them are mainland citizens who work in Macao) crowed to the border because the new policy by Guangdong province is going into operation at 6 a.m. on that day.
    Who can blame them, they are desperate to get back and check on loved ones.

  8. #113
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Wuhan has relaxed restrictions. They allowed him to get out of the complex and drive around. Exactly two months later.



    Wuhan was shut down on Jan 23. He could still move out but only on bicyle or electric scooter.

    On Jan 28 he got locked into the housing society. No going out at all.

    Last edited by Double Edge; 29 Mar 20, at 19:10.

  9. #114
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    If all goes well China limps back to normalcy


  10. #115
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  11. #116
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    I don't know how common it is to see overturned police cars in China but it happened.

    Reminds me of those hooligans in Hong Kong : D : D



    Because Jianxi police in the province next to Hubei demanded health certs from those in Hubei who wanted to cross the bridge into Jianxi province. Or so that is one version of the story.

    Not only did the public scuffle with the police, even the cops from the two jurisdictions had a go at each other.

    These people were migrant workers from Hubei trying to go to work in Jianxi.

    So there is a stigma of sorts if one comes from Wuhan or Hubei elsewhere in the country.

    We can expect similar in India. If some one comes back from a state that has high number of affected they will be stigmatised and considered a threat to the health of others.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 30 Mar 20, at 23:48.

  12. #117
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Vaccine out in China and over a hundred volunteers from Wuhan signed up to test it

    Coronavirus vaccine trials: Chinese volunteers recount their experiences | SCMP | Mar 22 2020

    China's CanSino pushes coronavirus vaccine into clinical testing as Moderna kicks off trial | Fierc Pharma | Mar 18 2020

    Among a long list of biopharma companies developing vaccines against the novel coronavirus, China’s CanSino Biologics and Massachusetts-based Moderna Therapeutics are so far the front-runners.
    Gagandeep Kang mentioned Moderna would be starting Phase 1 trials immediately, so fingers crossed.

    Meanwhile, amid growing numbers of infections in the U.S., the FDA has allowed a phase 1 study of Moderna’s mRNA vaccine without animal data. On Monday, the biotech said researchers at the National Institutes of Health dosed the first subject.

    The Moderna candidate, mRNA-1273, contains mRNA encoding for a stabilized form of the spike protein. The phase 1 trial will enroll 45 healthy adults to evaluate the shot’s safety and immunogenicity at three different dose levels, each given twice and 28 days apart.

    Moderna previously secured funding from the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI) to make the first clinical batch.

    The company said it’s now preparing material for a potential phase 2 trial, which could begin in a few months. In the longer term, Modern is ramping up manufacturing “that could allow for the future manufacture of millions of doses should mRNA-1273 prove to be safe and effective,” the biotech said.
    A few months for Phase 2 means June
    Last edited by Double Edge; Yesterday at 07:35.

  13. #118
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    What we all have to look forward to

    In Hong Kong, retail sales fell by 21.5% YoY in January and 44.0% in February, or 31.8% over the first two months of the year (which accounts for lunar new year seasonality). After netting out price changes, the two-month contraction was -33.9%.

    Other two-month totals (nominal):

    Food and beverage -9.3%
    Jewellery, watches, and other valuable gift items (i.e., a tourism proxy) -58.6%
    Electrical goods -25.1%
    Medicines and cosmetics -42.7%
    Wearing apparel -49.9%
    Motor vehicles and parts -24.2%
    Footwear and clothing -43.1%
    Furniture and fixtures -19.6%
    Supermarkets +11.1%
    Note that services are not covered in this data.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  14. #119
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Coronavirus: Countries reject Chinese-made equipment

    A number of European governments have rejected Chinese-made equipment designed to combat the coronavirus outbreak.

    Thousands of testing kits and medical masks are below standard or defective, according to authorities in Spain, Turkey and the Netherlands.

    Europe has reported hundreds of thousands of cases of coronavirus.

    More than 10,000 people have died in Italy since the outbreak began.

    The virus was first detected in China at the end of 2019. The government implemented strict lockdown measures to bring it under control.

    What’s wrong with the equipment?
    On Saturday, the Dutch health ministry announced it had recalled 600,000 face masks. The equipment had arrived from a Chinese manufacturer on 21 March, and had already been distributed to front-line medical teams.

    Dutch officials said that the masks did not fit and that their filters did not work as intended, even though they had a quality certificate,

    "The rest of the shipment was immediately put on hold and has not been distributed,” a statement read. “Now it has been decided not to use any of this shipment.”

    Spain’s government encountered similar problems with testing kits ordered from a Chinese company.

    It announced it had bought hundreds of thousands of tests to combat the virus, but revealed in the following days that nearly 60,000 could not accurately determine if a patient had the virus.

    The Chinese embassy in Spain tweeted that the company behind the kits, Shenzhen Bioeasy Biotechnology, did not have an official license from Chinese medical authorities to sell its products.

    It clarified that separate material donated by the Chinese government and technology and retail group Alibaba did not include products from Shenzhen Bioeasy.

    Turkey also announced that it had found some testing kits ordered from Chinese companies were not sufficiently accurate, although it said that some 350,000 of the tests worked well.

    Allegations of defective equipment come after critics warned China could be using the coronavirus outbreak to further its influence.

    In a blog post last week, EU chief diplomat Josep Borrell warned that there is “a geo-political component including a struggle for influence through spinning and the ‘politics of generosity’.”

    China is aggressively pushing the message that, unlike the US, it is a responsible and reliable partner,” he wrote. "Armed with facts, we need to defend Europe against its detractors."

    What’s the situation in Europe?
    On Monday, Spain reported 812 new deaths in the space of 24 hours – bringing its total death toll to 7,340. It now has more than 85,000 infections – surpassing the number of cases reported in China.

    New measures have also come into force in Spain banning all non-essential workers from going to their jobs. The restrictions will be in place for at least two weeks.

    Italy remains the worst affected country worldwide. More than 10,000 people have died from the virus there, and it has recorded nearly 100,000 infections. Only the US has more confirmed cases, although the death toll there is far lower.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  15. #120
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Interesting explanation of the sequencing of how their propaganda works. I will remember this name China Neican. Well written and clear.

    China Neican, a weekly China information newsletter published weekly by Adam Ni and Yun Jiang, summarized:

    "The Chinese authorities' first instinct was the suppression of information. After realizing that paper cannot stifle a fire, it then turned its propaganda effort to mobilization - how the government has acted decisively to build hospitals in record times and lockdown entire cities.

    For two weeks, it allows some non-state-sanctioned information to flow. The authorities then clamped down hard on information control again, with the emphasis being placed on telling positive stories.

    So the heroic efforts of frontline workers were highlighted while the sufferings of the patients were downplayed."
    Quickly build hospitals, lockdown of entire cities, heroic efforts of frontline workers.

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    Have to do something important to get a salute from the cops. They are railway police. One of the signs he is holding reads 'hero'

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    No N95's there, all are wearing surgical masks

    Ni commented to ANI: "There was deep frustration and resentment at the Chineseauthorities' early response to COVID-19.

    But I think the current extreme measures have wide public support because they are seen as effective measures against the virus.

    The CCP is now spinning its own narrative about the virus, focusing in on its achievements while deflecting blame."
    Every govt with this virus problem is facing this same test.

    Summarizing the CCP's propaganda efforts to shape the COVID-19 narrative, Ni shared with ANI: "In my mind, there are four key elements to its narrative efforts, essentially all for the purpose of bolstering the legitimacy of the party at a time of heightened uncertainty for the Chinese people."

    The first point mentioned by the Australia-based academic is blame avoidance. "The party has sought to deflect blame by scapegoating other expandable actors, such as local authorities. It has also sought to minimize attention to its early missteps. Some of China's diplomats have even gone as far as supporting conspiracy theories about where the virus came from."

    Secondly, Ni mentioned the leveraging of nationalistic sentiment. "Through the narratives about a 'People's War' against disease, and casting the crisis as a national struggle, the CCP is whipping up nationalism to bolster its legitimacy."The CCP thus enacted a new phase blaming "foreign hostile forces", a typical ploy.

    Third is highlighting the supposed superiority of China's political and governance system. "The Chinese state-party has focused heavily on shortcomings of the international response to the virus, especially in Europe and the USA. In doing so, it is trying to convince the domestic public and the international community that China's political and governance system has superior features."

    Latterly, China has been highlighting its global support for countries like Italy with deliveries of medical supplies and health workers. Beijing is busily posturing as a world leader in virus research and effective governance.
    The business...

    Ironically, the depths of its propaganda efforts demonstrate how unconfident the CCP is about its governance. It is very afraid of the people and of international criticism, showing Chinese communist is not a robust system. These are not the actions of a strong party state, but one that fears opprobrium.
    Something DOR would say, lol : D

    Ni concluded, "In essence, the party wants to make the best out of a terrible situation and spin the story in favor of the party by deflecting blame, sowing doubts on its culpability, whipping up nationalism and highlighting the superiority of the Chinese party-state."
    In a nutshell

    The immaturity of President Donald Trump's in calling it the "China virus" has exacerbated the issue and played into China's hands. Indeed, Beijing is quick to play the racist card, with the CCP adept at conflating the Chinese people with the party even though they are in fact different entities.
    Should have called it CCP virus instead as AIM mentioned recently. Watch them wriggle out of that one.

    WHO did not declare a pandemic until 11 March, after parroting dubious assurances from China that all was under control. On 15 January, WHO infamously tweeted, "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus..."
    Fcuking unbelievable !!! NO WHO DOCTOR THOUGHT TO VERIFY THIS !!!

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    I doubt wHO will survive in its present form once this is over. It has spectacularly failed its job here.

    Ni predicted: "It's unclear at this point how Xi's popularity will come out from this crisis. It depends on how the virus situation develops in China. Despite that it has now come under control, I think this crisis has some way to go yet with deep implications for Chinese society and the relationship between the people and the party. Most importantly, the party will likely arrive at the conclusion that, to prevent future such crisis, it needs more control over society."
    Unfortunate if that turns out to be the case : (
    Last edited by Double Edge; Today at 02:08.

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