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Thread: Coronavirus: the Chinese Political Angle

  1. #61
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    India told Pak students in China, they will be evacuated, kept in quarantine in India for 2 weeks, before being sent to Pakistan, if Pak authorities gives India NOC. NOC didn't come.
    I've yet to hear a credible reason as to why the Paks don't want their students back even after we proposed as a humanitarian gesture.

    Keep an eye on BRI countries, they'd have the most Chinese interaction. But cases seem to be low in places like Pakistan, Laos & Cambodia. Most likely due to lack of testing. Rather its countries which have had lots of Chinese tourists that had outbreaks. Thailand is an example but i notice of late their numbers are down so looks like things are under control there.

    In other news i saw this

    Coronavirus Patient Zero in Italy Reportedly a Pakistani Immigrant | Gateway Pundit | Mar 07 2020

    You might find this funny. But its a real problem.

    If your next meal and rent depends on that next paycheck how to sit at home for two weeks ?

  2. #62
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I've yet to hear a credible reason as to why the Paks don't want their students back even after we proposed as a humanitarian gesture.

    Keep an eye on BRI countries, they'd have the most Chinese interaction. But cases seem to be low in places like Pakistan, Laos & Cambodia. Most likely due to lack of testing. Rather its countries which have had lots of Chinese tourists that had outbreaks. Thailand is an example but i notice of late their numbers are down so looks like things are under control there.

    In other news i saw this

    Coronavirus Patient Zero in Italy Reportedly a Pakistani Immigrant | Gateway Pundit | Mar 07 2020

    You might find this funny. But its a real problem.
    Lack of quality medical facilities, and high population density. Their ignorance and pitiful healthcare presence inside Pak is perfect for them to show the deepest fake allegiance to China, and snub India. PA/ISI doesn't care for their citizens, they thrive on propaganda.

    Italy, supports BRI, the most affected country in EU.

    If your next meal and rent depends on that next paycheck how to sit at home for two weeks ?
    People who earn their food daily are the most affected.
    Last edited by Oracle; 12 Mar 20, at 05:29.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  3. #63
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Here is a post that captures sentiment i would imagine is quite wide spread if not said in the open.

    When people lose loves ones, if they lose business.

    Quote Originally Posted by youtube comment
    where from the virus started off?

    What are the eating habits of Chinese?

    Only they let aeroplane fly in the sky, rest of them, anything crawling, walking, swimming, slithering, flying becomes uncooked food to Chines plates.

    Shame on their inhuman behaviour.

    Its because of China that others in the world are suffering from covid19.

    Will China at least learn their lessons now?

    Will they start eating like civilized people from now?

    These are questions to be asked to them.

    What are their medical practitioners doing?

    Why didn't they take measures to create advisories to refrain eating uncooked meat and follow hygiene in the slaughter houses.
    China is looking at a massive PR disaster once this covid thing cools down.

    Will people blame China or will they hold their own govts accountable for failing to prevent the spread of this disease ?

    If its the latter then the CCP gets a breather because technically anything outside their jurisdiction is somebody else's problem.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Mar 20, at 21:45.

  4. #64
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Here is a post that captures sentiment i would imagine is quite wide spread if not said in the open.

    When people lose loves ones, if they lose business.

    China is looking at a massive PR disaster once this covid thing cools down.

    Will people blame China or will they hold their own govts accountable for failing to prevent the spread of this disease ?

    If its the latter then the CCP gets a breather because technically anything outside their jurisdiction is somebody else's problem.
    Sushi is Japanese. Chinese boil their food, including their meat. They don't eat it raw. Lax regulations are what are to be blamed, ofcourse stupid laws that the CCP has made needs to be called out. It is the fault of the CCP, not the common Chinese. In a part of India, rats are considered food. Dogs are a specialty in some states of the NE. Whoever made that comment is either ignorant or bullshitting.

    And btw, China/Pak, basically every autocratic country makes sure they win the PR war. China is not losing anything.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  5. #65
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Sushi is Japanese. Chinese boil their food, including their meat. They don't eat it raw. Lax regulations are what are to be blamed, ofcourse stupid laws that the CCP has made needs to be called out. It is the fault of the CCP, not the common Chinese. In a part of India, rats are considered food. Dogs are a specialty in some states of the NE. Whoever made that comment is either ignorant or bullshitting.
    I think its an emotional outburst. The bolded bit captures it.

    And btw, China/Pak, basically every autocratic country makes sure they win the PR war. China is not losing anything.
    Losing in the sense bad PR for them around the world. Their people are a captive audience. They don't have a choice.

    The ideological war got started early.

    Who will handle this better, free countries or authoritarian ones.

    China has turned a corner. Whether its temporary or not is to be seen.

    Everybody wants them to win this because if they can we can. See how that sounds.

    They will want to show they handled it better because of their system.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Mar 20, at 03:24.

  6. #66
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Lack of quality medical facilities, and high population density. Their ignorance and pitiful healthcare presence inside Pak is perfect for them to show the deepest fake allegiance to China, and snub India. PA/ISI doesn't care for their citizens, they thrive on propaganda.
    I get snubbing the Indian offer as it makes the Pak govt appear weak.

    I don't get the fake allegiance bit. If every other country is pulling its people out of China then how the Paks show fake allegiance by leaving their people there ?

    The part about not caring for citizens is what is left.

    Until the 90s the same could be said about Indians in distress abroad. We'd see western govts get jumpy if just one of their citizens was in trouble abroad and wondered where the Indian state was. That changed with the airlift in '91 where GOI sent these Air India flights to evacuate refugees in Amman.

    I guess it seems odd today to imagine this happening any more to Indians at least. It is with that lens that the Pak govts actions seem uncaring.


    Italy, supports BRI, the most affected country in EU.
    A lot of interaction between China & Italy. The virus spread early in Italy but was missed by their health surveillance and that's why there is a sudden explosion.

    if the Americans can't get going with testing then how is the world going to manage it.

    A key ingredient of the testing kit is in short supply around the world.

    Every country is going to see a peak in affected cases, all hope not as bad as Italy or Iran.

    Without adequate testing, all govts are flying blind.

    Unable to make any meaningful policy and actions later have to be draconian like city lock down.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Mar 20, at 03:25.

  7. #67
    Military Professional 667medic's Avatar
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    I am reading in CDF that the virus originated in USA as several Jan in USA were originally ascribed to Flu but have now been posthumously found to be corona related illness.
    Seek Save Serve Medic

  8. #68
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 667medic View Post
    I am reading in CDF that the virus originated in USA as several Jan in USA were originally ascribed to Flu but have now been posthumously found to be corona related illness.
    Post the sources

    Why as a medic do you believe any of this ?

  9. #69
    Military Professional 667medic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Post the sources

    Why as a medic do you believe any of this ?
    I don't. I posted my one line response there. Just saying that the spin has already started....
    Seek Save Serve Medic

  10. #70
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 667medic View Post
    I don't. I posted my one line response there. Just saying that the spin has already started....
    Then they are reacting to BS by producing more : )

    Neither side can prove their point.

    The China bio weapon has been junked.

    The China made this in a lab too.

    If it wasn't made in a lab then proximity of their P4 lab to the Wuhan market is irrelevant.

    It could not have leaked.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Mar 20, at 06:26.

  11. #71
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 667medic View Post
    I am reading in CDF that the virus originated in USA as several Jan in USA were originally ascribed to Flu but have now been posthumously found to be corona related illness.
    Oh! I see what you mean now and understand why that youtube comment appeared. It was because as early as Mar 4 the CCP is trying to push back.

    Q: It was once speculated that the virus was leaked from a lab in China and such speculation was already countered by the Chinese side. Still, there are many versions about the origin of the virus and "patient zero". Some media and netizens still talk about it in ways like "China virus"and "Wuhan virus". There are also news stories saying that some US seasonal influenza patients actually came down with COVID-19. What is your response?

    A: It is highly irresponsible for some media to dub it "China virus". We firmly oppose that. I want to stress two points.

    First, no conclusion has been reached yet on the origin of the virus, as relevant tracing work is still underway. The WHO has said many times that what we are experiencing now is a global phenomenon with its source still undetermined, and we should focus on containing it and avoid stigmatizing language toward certain places. The name COVID-19 was chosen by the WHO for the purpose of making no connections between the virus and certain places or countries.

    Dr. Zhong Nanshan, respiratory specialist and member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, said that the epidemic was first reported in China but was not necessarily originated in China.

    Second, we should all say no to "information virus" and "political virus". By calling it "China virus" and thus suggesting its origin without any supporting facts or evidence, some media clearly want China to take the blame and their ulterior motives are laid bare. The epidemic is a global challenge. The right move should be working together to fight it, which means no place for rumors and prejudice. We need science, reason and cooperation to drive out ignorance and bias.
    Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Zhao Lijian's Regular Press Conference on March 4, 2020
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Mar 20, at 06:15.

  12. #72
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    This is a great article it shows that the Chinese weren't lying with the numbers, they genuinely didn't know how many affected there were.

    I've never believed they were lying as was being said by various commentators.

    Just that there was a lag of a week to two between reality & reported.

    Coronavirus: Why You Must Act Now | Medium | Mar 13 2020

    Because they don't know when people have symptoms, they only know when people go to the doctor.

    They found out the true extent when they asked people who went for the diagnostic when they got their symptoms.

    On January 21st, the number of new diagnosed cases (orange) is exploding: there are around 100 new cases.

    In reality, there were 1,500 new cases that day, growing exponentially. But the authorities didn’t know that. What they knew was that suddenly there were 100 new cases of this new illness.
    Crap your pants part. You think there are 100 but there are 1,500 !!

    Could only see the tip of the iceberg. Actually worse, more like half of the tip.

    The slam going around is China didn't do enough or act fast enough and so the world has to suffer.

    How can they do anything for the world if they think they have only 100 and the reality is they have 1500.

    They can only operate on the basis of what they know at the time.

    Two days later, authorities shut down Wuhan. At that point, the number of diagnosed daily new cases was ~400.

    Note that number: they made a decision to close the city with just 400 new cases in a day.

    In reality, there were 2,500 new cases that day, but they didn’t know that. The day after, another 15 cities in Hubei shut down.
    South Korea cases have exploded, but have you wondered why Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand or Hong Kong haven’t?

    All of them were hit by SARS in 2003, and all of them learned from it. They learned how viral and lethal it could be, so they knew to take it seriously. That’s why all of their graphs, despite starting to grow much earlier, still don’t look like exponentials.

    Meanwhile, South Korea, Italy and Iran had a full month to learn, but didn’t. They started the same exponential growth of Hubei and passed every other Chinese region before the end of February.
    Indeed : )

    Thailand not exploding is notable given it rose to prominence early.

    You'd think South Korea was doing well given the high number of testing but they fumbled earlier on possibly got unlucky with super spreaders.

    If Japan is doing such a fine job then how did the Daimond Princess turn into such a mess. I am assuming that Japan had jurisdiction over that cruise ship ?
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Mar 20, at 12:56.

  13. #73
    Military Professional 667medic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    This is a great article it shows that the Chinese weren't lying with the numbers, they genuinely didn't know how many affected there were.

    I've never believed they were lying as was being said by various commentators.

    Just that there was a lag of a week to two between reality & reported.

    Coronavirus: Why You Must Act Now | Medium | Mar 13 2020

    Because they don't know when people have symptoms, they only know when people go to the doctor.

    They found out the true extent when they asked people who went for the diagnostic when they got their symptoms.


    Crap your pants part. You think there are 100 but there are 1,500 !!

    Could only see the tip of the iceberg. Actually worse, more like half of the tip.

    The slam going around is China didn't do enough or act fast enough and so the world has to suffer.

    How can they do anything for the world if they think they have only 100 and the reality is they have 1500.

    They can only operate on the basis of what they know at the time.





    Indeed : )

    Thailand not exploding is notable given it rose to prominence early.

    You'd think South Korea was doing well given the high number of testing but they fumbled earlier on possibly got unlucky with super spreaders.

    If Japan is doing such a fine job then how did the Daimond Princess turn into such a mess. I am assuming that Japan had jurisdiction over that cruise ship ?
    PRC didn't know what was happening, and it is always easy to dissect thing based on hindsight.
    Also, don't you think that it is better for the government to publicly give reassuring messages but go all out behind the scenes. This is far more effective than starting a general panic.....
    Seek Save Serve Medic

  14. #74
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 667medic View Post
    PRC didn't know what was happening, and it is always easy to dissect thing based on hindsight.
    Also, don't you think that it is better for the government to publicly give reassuring messages but go all out behind the scenes. This is far more effective than starting a general panic.....
    This is the impressive bit

    Name:  rest of china va the world_r.jpg
Views: 58
Size:  66.7 KB

    They learnt from Hubei so rest of China does not have exponential growth in affected.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Mar 20, at 15:21.

  15. #75
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Sushi is Japanese. Chinese boil their food, including their meat. They don't eat it raw. Lax regulations are what are to be blamed, ofcourse stupid laws that the CCP has made needs to be called out. It is the fault of the CCP, not the common Chinese. In a part of India, rats are considered food. Dogs are a specialty in some states of the NE. Whoever made that comment is either ignorant or bullshitting.

    And btw, China/Pak, basically every autocratic country makes sure they win the PR war. China is not losing anything.
    From what I understand, the problem in China isn't the type of animals they eat, it's how things are conducted in the "wet" markets where they're sold.

    First off, the wet markets sell live animals, which are either slaughtered for you upon purchase, or which you purchase live to take elsewhere for slaughtering. Secondly, there's dozens or more types of animals all being sold in these wet markets, in close proximity to other species of animals, in wire cages that are often stacked up high where different types of animals are pissing, shitting, and transmitting other body fluids onto other animals directly below them, which vastly increases the likelihood of cross-species transmission of disease.

    The original SARS virus originated in a Chinese wet market in Guangdong, and this SARS-2 originated in a wet market in Wuhan.

    Here's an excellent video from Vox that breaks this down.

    Last edited by Ironduke; 14 Mar 20, at 05:26.
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