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Thread: Coronavirus: the Chinese Political Angle

  1. #136
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    I understand that. But meat doesn't get you hepatitis, atleast I haven't come across anyone who did.
    Thing with meat isn't hepatitis. With pork its Trichinosis. This is why the jews & muslims avoided it.

    What kinds of problems are lurking when you eat other exotic meats.

    Unless they're well done i'd be wary.

  2. #137
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Debate over face masks ends, Hong Kong was right all along | SCMP | Apr 04 2020

    From the start, the World Health Organisation (WHO) said the answer was, no. Masks should be worn by those who are sick, and medical and care workers, according to the global body. There was no need for people who are well to wear them.

    That position was adopted by countries such as the United States, Britain, much of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa and Singapore. They emphasised frequent handwashing and social distancing, by keeping at least a metre apart from others in public places, and the need to save available masks for health care workers.
    I was surprised to see Singapore in the list

    Singapore, which had been steadfast in telling its citizens not to wear masks if they were not unwell, changed its stance as its confirmed cases crossed the 1,000 mark, with six deaths by Saturday morning, and will start distributing reusable masks to all households from Sunday.
    They've changed their stance as have the Americans. This is good news.

    The US administration debated and decided to change its advice on masks in recent days. On Tuesday, Dr Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told CNN that the White House Coronavirus Task Force was discussing the issue.

    On Thursday, he indicated the advice would change and Americans would be encouraged to wear masks, saying: “Given the fact that we know that asymptomatic people are clearly transmitting infection, it just makes common sense that it’s not a bad idea to do that.”

    On Friday, Surgeon General Adams acknowledged that some would find the change in position confusing, but said it followed new information that infected people without symptoms could be spreading Covid-19.
    The penny drops.

    “There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit,” said Dr Mike Ryan, executive director of WHO’s health emergencies programme, as recently as Monday.

    The WHO also made a U-turn itself, with Ryan saying: “We can certainly see circumstances on which the use of masks, both home-made and cloth masks, at the community level may help with an overall comprehensive response to this disease.”
    Yeah, you were just kidding earlier, RIGHT!

    One reason for the change of heart is that as Covid-19 ravaged countries like Italy and Spain, and spiked alarmingly elsewhere, experts noticed that communities used to wearing masks had recorded slower infection rates.
    This is one reason why China keeps its numbers down. Cannot be outside without some sort of mask. Even a bandana or scarf is acceptable.

    In Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Thailand and Vietnam, wearing masks in public is so widely accepted that those who leave home barefaced risk dirty looks or being told off. In Europe, the Czech Republic and Slovakia bucked the western trend, encouraging the use of masks by everyone.
    Compare with the US where earlier people would mock you and these days lecture you to donate your stash of masks to health workers. If its N95 or better.

    “Universal masking, as a package of anti-epidemic measures, including greater social distancing and hand hygiene, has been instrumental in keeping Covid-19 in check,” said infectious diseases expert Professor David Hui Shu-cheong of the Chinese University of Hong Kong.
    These people know more than the WHO

    Wearing masks in public has been ingrained in Hongkongers’ collective psyche since the deadly severe acute respiratory syndrome epidemic of 2003, and experts now believe the habit helped the city of 7.4 million keep its Covid-19 numbers down to 845, with four deaths as of Friday.

    Hong Kong also weathered the first wave of the outbreak with a flatter epidemic curve than many other places where infections have soared. Observers consider the Hong Kong numbers remarkable given its proximity to mainland China, where Covid-19 began, and its status as an international transport hub.
    So HK numbers are legit then ? With famous virus hunters like Gabriel Leung in their ranks why would people doubt what HK says.

    If HK is true then how far off are Beijing & Shanghai ?

    Singapore is encouraging its people to use reusable masks. The WHO emphasised on Friday that surgical masks should be reserved for medical professionals.
    Most people would prefer reusable as maintenance is simpler. How well they work over surgical is unknown though. Will definitely stop droplets though.



    Used masks are designated as hazardous waste. Even the garbage workers are in protective suits.

    Professor Yuen Kwok-yung, the University of Hong Kong’s (HKU) top microbiologist and an early proponent of wearing masks in the city, has described the case of a seven-year-old girl who resisted Covid-19 while her family members fell sick.

    In a study published in the medical journal Lancet, he said the family of six travelled to Wuhan, the epicentre of China’s Covid-19 outbreak, and the girl was the only one in the family who did not contract the virus. The reason: she wore masks throughout their trip.
    A familial cluster of pneumonia associated with the 2019 novel coronavirus indicating person-to-person transmission: a study of a family cluster | Lancet | Jan 24 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by From Lancet
    Patients 1–4 were symptomatic, and they only presented to our hospital (The University of Hong Kong-Shenzhen Hospital, Shenzhen) 6–10 days after symptom onset.

    For the two asymptomatic children (patients 5 and 6), patient 5 had ground-glass lung opacities identified by CT scan.

    Unlike patient 5, who was aged 10 years and non-compliant to parental guidance, patient 6, who was aged 7 years and reported by her mother to wear a surgical mask for most of the time during the period in Wuhan, was not found to be infected by virological or radiological investigations.
    That should clear all doubts once and for all. The seven yr old listened to her mother and wore the surgical mask all through the trip. The 10 yr old kid didn't listen.

    That study was published OVER TWO MONTHS back !!

    HKU’s Benjamin Cowling, professor of epidemiology and biostatistics, said: “I am not clear why there is a different standard applied to use in the community, that face masks are really, really an important part of protection of medical workers – I agree with that – but somehow not effective at all in the general community because people don’t know how to wear masks properly.

    “If that’s really the case, the solution is to have a public education campaign, not to avoid recommending the use of masks.”
    Double standards

    There are other benefits in more widespread use of masks. Shan Soe-lin, a lecturer in public health at Yale University, said the sight of everyone in masks can stimulate behavioural change by signalling the seriousness of the pandemic and the need for protection.

    “It reduces stigma and encourages others to wear masks, which further amplifies the collective benefits,” she added. “People touch their faces an average of once every 2.5 minutes, which is a very hard, if not impossible habit to break. Covering your face keeps your hands away from your nose and mouth.”
    Suspect this is the reason behind the high compliance in my city.

    Yes it might panic people in the short term but that's a good panic because they go look for masks as well.
    Last edited by Double Edge; Yesterday at 19:59.

  3. #138
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Why is Taiwan doing better than HK ? they had advance warning.



    Taipei tried to warn the WHO about human to human transmission AT THE END OF DECEMBER but were ignored because Taiwan is considered a LMAO! country

    The WHO Ignores Taiwan. The World Pays the Price | The Nation | Apr 04 2020

    I think its time Taiwan got some representation at the UN. Then they will no longer be a LMAO! country.

    The EU has recognised their contribution.

    As post–Cold War globalization fractures and right-wing nationalisms harden, the WHO’s deference to individual countries’ interests only risks widening divisions.

    Is it mere coincidence that at least two of the societies that have responded most ably to the virus—Taiwan, Hong Kong—are ones that the WHO doesn’t consider to be sovereign places at all?

    The coronavirus pandemic is already a profound tragedy. We can avoid further heartache by ending our reliance on a global health system that sees the world as competing states. Instead, we need to focus on creating bottom-up, transnational mutualism between health workers, researchers, and communities.

    At this point, sovereignty can’t save us—but solidarity might.
    Taiwan & HK did better without WHO's advice


    How Taiwan is containing coronavirus – despite diplomatic isolation by China | Guardian | Mar 13 2020

    In Taiwan, most residents carry on as normal, with offices and schools open. Many restaurants, gyms, and cafes in the capital, Taipei, are still bustling, although most premises will take temperatures and spray hands with sanitiser before allowing customers in.
    No problem with TAI restaurant.

    Tsai Ing Wen is sitting pretty after her handling of this crisis a few months after her re-election.
    Last edited by Double Edge; Today at 01:31.

  4. #139
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    So i've been challenged over the WHO's tweet that its not legit official bla bla so i found something better. A STATEMENT from even earlier. Jan 09

    WHO Statement regarding cluster of pneumonia cases in Wuhan, China | WHO | Jan 09 2020

    Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses with some causing less-severe disease, such as the common cold, and others more severe disease such as MERS and SARS. Some transmit easily from person to person, while others do not. According to Chinese authorities, the virus in question can cause severe illness in some patients and does not transmit readily between people.
    WHO does not recommend any specific measures for travellers. WHO advises against the application of any travel or trade restrictions on China based on the information currently available.
    But Taiwan ignored this ( from the Nation article in the previous post)

    Taiwan took action anyway. Before nightfall on December 31, the country decided to begin health inspections for all passengers arriving on flights from Wuhan.

    Two weeks later—amid continued reassurances from Chinese and WHO officials that there was no need for alarm—Taiwan dispatched two of its health experts to the city in Hubei province, where they found significant likelihood that the coronavirus was capable of human-to-human transmission.

    This virus, they reported on January 16, could be far more dangerous than initially assumed, noting that Wuhan’s local doctors were taking the disease very seriously as well.
    SO how credible are Taiwans figures now ? Looking more credible than less.

    Their screening was the earliest in the world.

    By the time Taiwan confirmed its first case of Covid-19 on January 21, the country was arguably more prepared than any other place in the world.

    It mobilized its Central Epidemic Command Center—a rapid-response agency formed in the wake of the 2003 SARS outbreak—to implement quarantines and conduct drills at hospitals.

    Citizens were asked to stay calm and assured that they would all be able to buy surgical masks, as production of the masks ramped up into millions per day. Soon after, Taiwanese masks were temporarily banned from export.
    WHO had an emergency meeting on Jan 22 with 21 other countries of which Taiwan was excluded. They did not decide at that meeting to call it a PHEIC (Public Health Emergency of International Concern)

    They had another on Jan 30 where they did. SO why wait until Mar 18 to declare it a pandemic. This is the time the warnings to all countries should have gone out. But.....

    By the time the WHO finally declared a global health emergency on January 30, nearly 8,000 cases had been confirmed by Chinese authorities, hundreds of people had died, and the virus had surfaced in at least 18 countries outside of China.

    Still, the WHO struck a deferential tone. “This declaration is not a vote of no confidence in China,” said Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.

    “On the contrary, the WHO continues to have confidence in China’s capacity to control the outbreak.”
    On what basis was this decision made !!!

    Contrast the WHO DG of today to the one in charge when the SARS outbreak happened back in 2003. Gro Bruntland did not mince her words in warning people and as a result the rest of the world never got to know about SARS.

    Then Trump started the China ban along with 21 countries. Again the WHO DG said it only increased stigma. Fauci at the end of Feb praised Trump's earlier decision but as we're seeing it did not come early enough. Taiwan was a month faster.
    Last edited by Double Edge; Yesterday at 22:05.

  5. #140
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Thing with meat isn't hepatitis. With pork its Trichinosis. This is why the jews & muslims avoided it.
    I always source my pork from known sources, who grow their pigs organically. I have also seen the worse effects of trichinosis in a man some 20 years back. Left eating pork for a while. Jews and Muslims don't avoid eating pork because of trichinosis, they avoid it because their religious texts say animals that sit on their hind legs are dirty and not fit to be hallalled.

    What kinds of problems are lurking when you eat other exotic meats.

    Unless they're well done i'd be wary.
    I am still alive. Exotic meats that I ate, and exotic meat markets in China are completely different. In my place, 1 exotic animal would be hunted and brought to the market and sold. In China, rows of exotic animals would be kept one above the another. So, if one is wounded, the puss/blood etc falls on the animals kept lower. Really unhygienic. Which is why I said regulations and hygiene is a must.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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