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Thread: Apologies on behalf of New Zealand/Aotearoa

  1. #1
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Apologies on behalf of New Zealand/Aotearoa

    For those of you unaware, a recent eruption on White Island/Whakaari killed nineteen people thus far, and of the forty seven on the island the majority of the rest received severe burns. These include many Australians, New Zealanders and Americans. Some are unknown as they or their families have requested privacy.
    All too often various NZ governments have swept such incidents under the carpet and no culpability or penalty has been applied. Wellington, in which I live, is the seat of government but is a small town. Many of the people I know socially work for or are associated with the ministry that is tasked with safety investigations and inspections.
    I want to reassure the people of those countries the dead and injured came from, that these people with whom I've talked to are determined that this shall not be swept under the carpet but that those culpable will be held to account, regardless of crown or Iwi affiliations.
    We grieve for your dead.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12292595
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    We grieve for your dead.
    As we grieve for yours.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
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    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    RIP. Never came across this news. Thank you for sharing.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    All too often various NZ governments have swept such incidents under the carpet and no culpability or penalty has been applied.

    I want to reassure the people of those countries the dead and injured came from, that these people with whom I've talked to are determined that this shall not be swept under the carpet but that those culpable will be held to account, regardless of crown or Iwi affiliations.
    Am curious as to how you attach this culpability ?

    Volcanoes are harder to predict. Hurricane & typhoons are easier by comparison. Army evacuates people en masse from expected area of landfall.

    Are you saying they did not evacuate people in time and consequently be held responsible ?

    No govt has done a good job when it comes to natural disasters. What changes can be made to improve the situation

    I'm reminded of Fukushima and how the locals were slamming the govt at the time. The one time since WW2 the opposition was in office Japanese banished the NDP back to the opposition benches for probably the next half century. That was an impossible situation to deal with. Earthquake leads to Tsunami that then hits an atomic power plant

    The sentiment over the handling of Katrina is another. Govt told people to leave in time, some stayed and were affected.

    Recently Puerto Rico and still no power after six months. Trump got slammed over that.

    Person that needs to say something in this topic is Z
    Last edited by Double Edge; 30 Dec 19, at 15:33.

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    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Am curious as to how you attach this culpability ?

    Volcanoes are harder to predict. Hurricane & typhoons are easier by comparison. Army evacuates people en masse from expected area of landfall.

    Are you saying they did not evacuate people in time and consequently be held responsible ?

    No govt has done a good job when it comes to natural disasters. What changes can be made to improve the situation
    The tour company is liable. Geosync set the risk level at 2 but the tour companies went anyway because they knew better. It's an active volcano with constant geothermal eruptions. A thin skin of cool ash/mud over a caldera of boiling water and ash. It has large scale eruptions regularly. This time the first ejection was horizontal rather than vertical, the tourists were hit by a blast of superheated steam. There's recorded material from a tourist group an hour before the eruption with one of the guides saying he was worried because the surface water had changed colour to a deep green, but they still ran the next group. Tours should never walk across an active caldera, it's as stupid as walking over the cooled skin of an active lava flow tunnel.


    I'm reminded of Fukushima and how the locals were slamming the govt at the time. The one time since WW2 the opposition was in office Japanese banished the NDP back to the opposition benches for probably the next half century. That was an impossible situation to deal with. Earthquake leads to Tsunami that then hits an atomic power plant

    The sentiment over the handling of Katrina is another. Govt told people to leave in time, some stayed and were affected.

    Recently Puerto Rico and still no power after six months. Trump got slammed over that.

    Person that needs to say something in this topic is Z
    Fukushima, prior to the actual explosions, was a clusterfuck of everyone standing around reporting to everyone else, waiting for everyone else to make a decision. They had 24 hours to restore power to the pumps and failed comprehensively. Afterwards, it was a saving-face clusterfuck.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Some terminology to get used to.

    Geosync set the risk level at 2
    It's a 2, does not sound very scary, until you learn level 2 in kiwi means RUN : O

    Name:  volcano.JPG
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    That disclaimer at the bottom makes it impossible to predict



    How fast things happen !!

    Look at the people, this is not hard core adventure lot, its family friendly like they're going for a stroll in the park safe.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 30 Dec 19, at 21:10.

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    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Look at the people, this is not hard core adventure lot, its family friendly like they're going for a stroll in the park safe.
    All such groups trust that the company and guides know what they are doing, like doing a bungy that the operators have tied you properly and the rope can take your weight.
    Our Prime Minister mumbled some stuff about best information meant it was safe, the police immediately stated there would be a criminal investigation then were told by the PM to retract that claim. The geologists are pushing back saying they had long advised that no tours onto the island should take place at level 2. This is going to be a major test between our bureaucracy and our politicians, who are desperate to memory-hole it.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    3:00 level 2 does not indicate a likelihood of eruption, it indicates things are happening underneath. Level 3 & 4 are worrisome


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    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    3:00 level 2 does not indicate a likelihood of eruption, it indicates things are happening underneath. Level 3 & 4 are worrisome

    "level 2 in it self...…….. but the fact it had been raised indicates that things were happening inside the volcano"
    "and that's the biggest hazard with White Island, that you can get these unexpected significant explosions even when the alert levels are relatively low."


    This is the Tongariro eruption (lord of the rings backdrop) he referred to





    And this is its big brother Ruapehu, both regarded as less active and more stable than Whakaari

    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

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