Page 8 of 23 FirstFirst 1234567891011121314151617 ... LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 333

Thread: Impeachment Inquiry of Donald John Trump

  1. #106
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    16,747
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I'm not, do i need to be. No.
    I've rarely seen such willful ignorance so proudly proclaimed. Pretty remarkable actually.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  2. #107
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    16,747
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I found that underlined quite strange. I did not consider that public support was necessary.

    I'd taken it for granted going by this thread that the inquiry would proceed.
    Polls have zero to do with the inquiry. I posted about polls for two reasons: Public opinion will inform how the GOP-controlled Senate votes during the trial following impeachment.

    To redirect your attention to what I closed that post with:

    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    A majority of Americans supporting impeachment means that GOP senators will have to consider something other than slavish acquittal.

    Their loyalty to Trump ends where their reelection chances begin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    And then you post this Why is a poll necessary. You either have a case or not.

    Or as i expect, you don't have a case but will charge forward regardless : D
    The other reason I brought up polls is because you appeared to place some value on polls.
    So, I'll speak your language when discussing this with you.
    Surely finding common ground is a good way to debate?

    Speaking of which, the GOP-leaning approval poll you provided is showing an interesting trend.
    When the approval index hits -25 or worse, we'll know that Trump is probably on his way out. And he's 1/3 of the way there as of today.

    Assuming of course the Dems don't completely fuck up the impeachment process. Which is entirely possible.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  3. #108
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    16,747
    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    Doesn't matter what information the Australian Government provides, from Trump's perspective they will come out looking like either treasonous rats or gullible fools manipulated by unnamed foreign/domestic enemies. And bang goes our intelligence sharing arrangements with the US as well as any concessions we may have got from his world war on 'unfair' trade.
    Yet another example of how destructive this "Administration" has been to the United States and its allies. Special relationships forged in blood being treated like Trump's subcontractors.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  4. #109
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    01 Nov 09
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    3,781
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I'm not, do i need to be. No. If you are then you can enlighten me.
    I will only explain two things to people. One, how to do work on their car. Two, the what and why of their ocular system and the medical terms associated with it. That's because a hands on action are best described by someone with hands on experience at the task. The other because medical issues can simply be difficult to understand for many without a biology, physics and physiological background.

    However, this subject does not fit the above. So I will tell you the same thing I tell my 10 year old when he asks something similar. I tell him he can stop playing games, and pick up a book on the subject, or remain ignorant. Choose. He has gotten smart. He chooses to learn so he can know as much as his Daddy.

    Choose, or remain...

  5. #110
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    9,688
    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    DE,



    the poll is a good demonstration of why "case or not", it does not matter.

    a good proportion of the Republicans believe, evidence or not, that the President is innocent of any and all charges.

    the impeachment and conviction process was designed to have the format of a legal trial, as the Founders -knew- that the whole process is essentially a political decision-- but that cloaking it in legal terms made it more palatable for everyone involved.

    the GOP is not interested in keeping up this cloak because ultimately facts do not favor the President. so, the solution is to deride everything as political and undermine the legitimacy of the process, leaning on the Senate GOP to ensure that there is no conviction. this actually short-circuits the original function of the Senate, which was for Senators to act as a bulwark against partisanship.
    I'm saying WITH evidence some people think there is a case. They need to state it.

    I'm not one of these people. That is i don't think there is a case and if one is filed it will lose.

    That is based on what i've understood this case is about as explained in post #87

    Notice nobody challenged that reasoning.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 03 Oct 19, at 20:02.

  6. #111
    Administrator
    Lei Feng Protege
    Defense Professional
    Join Date
    23 Aug 05
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    13,939
    DE,

    I'm saying WITH evidence some people think there is a case. They need to state it.
    that is what the impeachment process is for. there's already enough prima facie evidence based on the whistleblower and the administration-released transcript that indicates wrongdoing.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  7. #112
    Administrator
    Lei Feng Protege
    Defense Professional
    Join Date
    23 Aug 05
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    13,939
    welps, today Trump just came out and asked China to investigate Biden as well.

    he is doing this because he wants to demonstrate how the impending impeachment will not faze him, and how the GOP will not lift a finger against him.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  8. #113
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    16,747
    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    welps, today Trump just came out and asked China to investigate Biden as well.

    he is doing this because he wants to demonstrate how the impending impeachment will not faze him, and how the GOP will not lift a finger against him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Trump
    "I have a lot of options on China...but if they don't do what we want, we have enormous power... Well I would think if they were honest about it, they would start a major investigation into the Bidens...Likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens, because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine.


    His malignant narcissism is what will ultimately bring him down. I've been convinced of this for years.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  9. #114
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    9,688
    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    DE,



    that is what the impeachment process is for. there's already enough prima facie evidence based on the whistleblower and the administration-released transcript that indicates wrongdoing.
    When will the case be stated indicating what he is being charged for

  10. #115
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    16,747
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    When will the case be stated indicating what he is being charged for
    When the six House committees tasked with the impeachment inquiry adopt articles of impeachment against Trump.
    Likely this will take a couple of months, hopefully concluding before the new year.
    Once the articles are adopted, they will be voted on by the entire House.

    The Intelligence Committee will focus on the contents of the whistleblower's original complaint(s) and whether the complaint(s) may have been wrongfully hidden from Congress

    The Foreign Affairs Committee will focus on interactions the State Department may have had with the President's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani

    The Oversight and Reform Committee will investigate whether White House classification systems were used to secure potentially damaging records of phone calls between the President and leaders of various countries around the world.

    I suspect that the other committees (Judiciary, Financial Services and Ways & Means) will investigate matters like the 2nd whistleblower's report on Trump's tax fraud. Among other things.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  11. #116
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    16,747
    Fox News analyst Andrew Napolitano says Trump's Ukraine call was both criminal and impeachable

    WASHINGTON Fox News' senior judicial analyst, Andrew Napolitano, said Thursday that the summary released by the White House of a July 25 phone call between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky demonstrates "both criminal and impeachable behavior" by Trump.

    Though the president has said it was a "perfect call" and that the summary exonerates him, Napolitano said in an opinion piece that the call showed that Trump was guilty of violating campaign finance law, bribery and intimidating witnesses.

    The former New Jersey judge's opinion made a social media splash because he works for a cable news network that is home to pro-Trump media figures like Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Jeanine Pirro and the hosts of "Fox & Friends." The article repeated several points Napolitano has made on-air since the scandal broke.

    Napolitano has bucked his conservative colleagues before, particularly with his view that special counsel Robert Mueller also revealed impeachable offenses.

    "The criminal behavior to which Trump has admitted is much more grave than anything alleged or unearthed by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, and much of what Mueller revealed was impeachable," Napolitano wrote Thursday about Trump's call to Zelensky.


    The call is at the center of an impeachment inquiry after a whistleblower complaint accused Trump of"using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election." Trump is alleged to have used approved military aid as leverage to demand that Ukraine investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, who has generally led in Democratic primary polling.

    Though the president and his defenders have denied evidence of a "quid pro quo" in the phone call,Napolitano said that Trump's request for a "favor" after Zelensky spoke of his need for anti-tank missiles was a "clear unmistakable inference" that approved military aid "would be held up until the favor was delivered."

    "The favor he sought was dirt on Biden."

    Napolitano also said the "president need not have committed a crime in order to be impeached, but he needs to have engaged in behavior that threatens the constitutional stability of the United States or the rule of law as we have come to know it."

    The judge decried Trump's verbal attacks on the whistleblower and "suggesting that the whistleblower and those who have helped him are spies and ought to be treated as spies were in 'the old days'(Trumps phrase) that is, by hanging."

    He called Trump's "allusions to violence are palpably dangerous" and said they "will give cover to crazies who crave violence, as other intemperate words of his have done."

    And he said that Trump's retweet of a pastor's suggestion that impeachment could lead to civil war was "a dog whistle to the deranged."


    Napolitano expressed shock that Trump would try to engage a country to interfere in the 2020 election immediately after Mueller's investigation, which outlined a "sweeping and systematic" Russian campaign to sway the 2016 election.

    "Now he has attempted in one phone call to bring the Ukrainian government into the 2020 election! Does he understand the laws he has sworn to uphold?" Napolitano asked. "It was to remedy just such reckless, constitutionally destructive behavior that impeachment was intended."

    Napolitano's opinion sparked the ire of many Fox News viewers as well as Fox News contributor and former U.S. Attorney Joe DiGenova who called Napolitano "a fool" during an appearance on "Tucker Carlson Tonight."

    "Nothing that the president said on that call or what we think he said on that call constitutes a crime,"DiGenova said. "And even if he had said you're not going to get the money it would not be a crime."
    ___________
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  12. #117
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    16,747
    Found this online, just in case there is doubt or confusion as to the process of what's going on:


    The impeachment inquiry is the House equivalent of a law enforcement INVESTIGATION into the assertion or ALLEGATION of a a possible crime.

    Upon competition of their INVESTIGATION the several House committees will determine whether enough evidence exists to pursue an INDICTMENT, or whether the ALLEGATION should be dismissed.

    Should one or more of the Committees decide that enough evidence exists to indicate a possible crime or impeachable offense (not necessarily a crime in the normal sense), they will write and issue ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT.

    The ARTICLE OR ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT will then be introduced to the House for a full vote. This would correspond to an INDICTMENT in the legal world.

    If this vote receives half or more of the members of the House, the ARTICLES would then be transferred to the Senate for Trial
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  13. #118
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Jan 07
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,601
    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    I've rarely seen such willful ignorance so proudly proclaimed. Pretty remarkable actually.
    Sadly not at all remarkable, even on WAB. The short thread below has that in spades. Its like some sort of Dunning Krueger Effect competition. Fair to say I have stopped hoping for better from any of those involved.

    http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=67235
    Last edited by Bigfella; 04 Oct 19, at 01:01.


    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  14. #119
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Jan 07
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,601
    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post

    His malignant narcissism is what will ultimately bring him down. I've been convinced of this for years.
    He is now in a situation where there are no more 'adults' left to tell him 'no'. It is sycophants all the way down. He thinks he can do pretty much anything, and he is a firm believer that the best form of defence is endless attack. This is a very, very bad combination.

    It is too much to hope that even senior GOPers will suddenly grow principles, so the Dems have to keep digging & keep the pressure on. They will find more to hang him with and he will become increasingly unstable. Then let voters do the rest.

    Of course, there still needs to be some sort of credible alternative for President at the election. That is by no means guaranteed, especially in a rave where Biden & Sanders remain among the top contenders (I'm still not enthusiastic about Warren, but she is a much better option than those two).


    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  15. #120
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    16,747
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    He is now in a situation where there are no more 'adults' left to tell him 'no'. It is sycophants all the way down. He thinks he can do pretty much anything, and he is a firm believer that the best form of defence is endless attack. This is a very, very bad combination
    Especially when his idea of "attack" is "throw tantrums like a special-needs toddler that got into daddy's cocaine stash"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    It is too much to hope that even senior GOPers will suddenly grow principles, so the Dems have to keep digging & keep the pressure on. They will find more to hang him with and he will become increasingly unstable. Then let voters do the rest.
    No indeed, you are absolutely correct. They sold their souls long ago, as did most of the rank-and-file GOP Congress. A few like Jeff Flake have dared to speak out, but they're also out of office, so they need not worry about reelection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    Of course, there still needs to be some sort of credible alternative for President at the election. That is by no means guaranteed, especially in a rave where Biden & Sanders remain among the top contenders (I'm still not enthusiastic about Warren, but she is a much better option than those two).
    I just don't see one. Biden is pretty much it. And as I've said, he's got his own baggage of bullshit and signs of dementia to boot.

    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Donald Trump rallies infiltrated by paid Hillary Clinton operatives
    By Parihaka in forum American Politics & Economy
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 08 Nov 16,, 15:21
  2. Donald Trump Tells Friends He Will Run for President, Report Says
    By Julie in forum American Politics & Economy
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 02 Mar 11,, 20:01
  3. Donald Trump Has Disappointed Me
    By THL in forum International Economy
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 09 Jan 07,, 21:11
  4. Democrats say No impeachment for Bush
    By maddog88 in forum American Politics & Economy
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 13 Nov 06,, 11:35

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •