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Thread: Impeachment Inquiry of Donald John Trump

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Fine, Nixon was for a grave offence.

    I don't agree that what Clinton did qualified and i'm not sure i agree with this one on Trump either.
    Well, Nixon left office with a 25% approval rating. Considering his shit-stained legacy, you'd think it would've been near zero.

    So, feel free to disagree. You certainly wouldn't be without historical precedent.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  2. #32
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    Markets would soar, not crash, if Trump got impeached

    President Trump considers himself God’s gift to the stock market. If the House of Representatives were to impeach him, “markets would crash,” Trump tweeted on Sept. 26.

    Markets, however, seem unperturbed by Trump’s worsening political predicament and the growing odds the House will, in fact, impeach him. In fact, if Trump were to exit the scene—either by resigning or being driven from office—stocks would probably soar rather than plunge, as investors got relief from elements of Trump’s agenda that have been depressing markets for over a year.

    Trump may be going nowhere. He’s obviously a fighter, and it’s not even clear impeachment proceedings will harm him. When the House impeached Bill Clinton in 1998, his popularity improved, largely because voters saw him as the victim of political overreach by Republicans. The same could happen to Trump.

    But Trump is arguably in a tougher spot than Clinton, whose offense was lying about an extramarital affair under oath. Trump appears to have subordinated national security concerns to his personal political interests and used taxpayer aid money appropriated by Congress as a kind of bribe to goad Ukraine into digging up dirt on Joe Biden. Then there appeared to be some kind of White House effort to cover it all up. Foreign policy and national security are core presidential responsibilities, and Trump may have badly abused his power.

    Trump could probably survive impeachment. If the Senate wouldn’t follow up by voting to convict him—which requires a two-thirds vote—Trump would remain in office, as Clinton did for the remainder of his second term. But this is treacherous terrain for Trump. Republican senators might not be as captive to Trump on impeachment as they have been on other issues. If the Senate did convict Trump and he left office, they wouldn’t be handing the presidency to Democrats. They’d be trading Trump for Vice President Mike Pence, who would become president. If they’re able to do that in one fell swoop, the many Republican senators who supposedly revile Trump in private might just go for it.

    So if Trump left, how would stock markets react? Euphorically. From a business perspective, the best of the Trump agenda—tax cuts and deregulation—would remain in place. But the worst of the Trump agenda—tariffs, protectionism, xenophobia and political interference with the free market—would dissipate. It might take a couple hours for markets to sort it out, but replacing Trump with Pence would almost certainly cheer investors.

    Before he was a Trump yes-man, Pence was a more traditional Republican, supportive of free trade and limited government. He probably wouldn’t abandon everything Trump stands for, but he’d probably ditch the worst of it, including:

    Tariffs.
    Trump is almost alone among Republicans in his crusade to wall off the U.S. economy, cut down on trade and punish trading partners with tariffs—which also hurt the U.S. economy. Pence might look for other ways to keep the pressure on China, such as coordinating with allies to reform the World Trade Organization. But it’s hard to imagine he or any other Republican would keep the Trump tariffs in place at the levels they’re at now. This is the single-biggest policy cloud hanging over markets, which would rally if the clouds parted.

    Immigration. A tough stance on illegal immigration is popular among conservatives, but Pence could ease up on legal immigration and raise quotas or find other ways to let more people legally migrate to the United States. Many economists say we need more legal immigration, not less, to deal with labor shortages, boost entrepreneurship and expand a labor force that must finance Social Security and Medicare for the baby boomers. Pence would probably be friendlier to immigrants than Trump has been. Anybody, actually, would be friendlier to immigrants than Trump has been.

    Iran.
    Tearing up the Obama-era nuclear deal with Iran was Trump’s idea. Many Republicans would have been content to leave it in place. Trump’s new sanctions on Iran have hurt the country but have also made Iran more combative, leading to strikes on oil operations including the recent drone and missile attack on Saudi facilities. Pence could start over with Iran and find a new path forward that’s less threatening to world oil markets.

    Scandal.
    Pence is an evangelical social conservative out of step with the public on some issues, but he’s also straight-laced and far more ethical than Trump. The many Trump scandals involving self-dealing, lies, coverups and abuse of power would dry up under Pence. The Trump scandals haven’t dinged financial markets, but they have exhausted and soured many voters. Any reprieve ought to be welcome. Link
    ______________
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  3. #33
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    Trump Seeks Whistleblower Sources, Mentions Treason, Makes Veiled Threat: Reports

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump told staff from the U.S. mission to the United Nations on Thursday he wanted to know who provided information to a whistleblower on his phone call with Ukraine's president, likening them to a spy, two newspapers reported.

    "I want to know who’s the person who gave the whistle-blower the information because that’s close to a spy," Trump was quoted as saying by the New York Times and Los Angeles Times.

    "You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now," the Los Angeles Times reported.

    The Los Angeles newspaper said it was given a recording of Trump's remarks by a person who attended the event in New York. The New York Times said its source was briefed on the comments and took notes.

    Trump spoke on Thursday as a House of Representatives committee heard testimony from the acting U.S. director of national intelligence on a whistleblower complaint about efforts by Trump to solicit the Ukraine government's help to investigate Democratic presidential hopeful Joe Biden whose son worked in Ukraine.

    Upon arriving back in the Washington area later, Trump angrily denounced the Democratic-led hearing as a witch hunt.

    The whistleblower report has triggered a controversy and prompted House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat, to launch a formal impeachment inquiry this week into the Republican president. Link
    ___________________

    There's that 3rd-rate Mafia thug coming out yet again. Let's just add Witness Tampering to the list of charges against this moron.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  4. #34
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Well, Nixon left office with a 25% approval rating. Considering his shit-stained legacy, you'd think it would've been near zero.

    So, feel free to disagree. You certainly wouldn't be without historical precedent.
    Because i've been hearing this word impeachment ever since he entered office.

    Pointing out he won in a free & fair election did not elicit much of a response.

    Astralis says there was talk of impeachment when bush & obama were in office.

    Same thing here.

    It's just that when there is talk, action isn't far away

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Because i've been hearing this word impeachment ever since he entered office.
    Probably because of Trump's blatant violations of Article I, Section 9, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, from Day One.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Pointing out he won in a free & fair election did not elicit much of a response.
    A free and fair election that was tainted with Russian meddling, which the Trump Campaign wholeheartedly embraced, yes. And yes, both of those little details are Proven Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    It's just that when there is talk, action isn't far away
    Well, that wasn't the case with Bush II or Obama, was it. Because it was pretty much just sour grapes on the part of hyper-partisan drones suffering from Bush or Obama Derangement Syndrome.

    Now of course we have Trump Derangement Syndrome AKA The kool-aid drinking belief that Donald Trump is a functioning human being that cares about anything or anyone but his malignant ego and self-enrichment.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  6. #36
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Well, that wasn't the case with Bush II or Obama, was it. Because it was pretty much just sour grapes on the part of hyper-partisan drones suffering from Bush or Obama Derangement Syndrome.

    Now of course we have Trump Derangement Syndrome AKA The kool-aid drinking belief that Donald Trump is a functioning human being that cares about anything or anyone but his malignant ego and self-enrichment.
    Oh come on its the same as the other two. Ones who hate him are the deranged

    And this sour grapes is exactly the same thing going on here against Trump. Just more extreme.

    Maybe sour grapes is putting it lightly.

    Complete revulsion verging on hate would be more appropriate.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Sep 19, at 07:31.

  7. #37
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    I am not trying to read the tea leaves but we may see the same shift occur in the current environment.
    Keep your eye on the below and let's see how the total approve numbers change

    Trump Approval Index History | Rasmussen

    Last time i looked at those numbers he was in the low forties.

    Looking at it now he seems in the high forties and into the fifties.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Sep 19, at 22:13.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Oh come on its the same and the other two. Ones who hate him are the deranged

    And this sour grapes is exactly the same thing going on here against Trump. Just more extreme.
    If that's the way you feel, I'm certainly not going to argue the point.
    I mean, it's not like Trump hasn't given people a reason to hate him....other than being a man without a shred of integrity, compassion, empathy, conscience, courage, manners, respect, character, morality or honor.
    A "billionaire" who hides his taxes, a "genius" that hides his college grades, a "businessman" who bankrupted 3 casinos, a "playboy" that pays for sex, a "Christian" that doesn't go to church, a "philanthropist" who defrauds charity, a "patriot" that dodged the draft and an "innocent man" that refuses to testify or allow anyone else in his orbit to do the same.

    Yeah, what's not to hate about a man like Trump that is unfortunately now President of the United States. It's a goddamn mystery.

    But on the plus side, it seems like you now have a better idea of why you've been hearing about impeachment from Day One and why pointing out he won in a free & fair election did not elicit much of a response.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Keep your eye on the below and let's see how the total approve numbers change

    Trump Approval Index History | Rasmussen

    Last time i looked at those numbers he was in the low forties.

    Looking at it now he seems in the high forties and into the fifties.
    Sure, "Total Approve" nudged up into the fifties for a few days...and just dropped back into the high forties today. Pretty impressive numbers for a President supposedly presiding over a "roaring" economy.

    That's a good link, I'll be keeping an eye on it just as you recommended.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Sure, "Total Approve" nudged up into the fifties for a few days...and just dropped back into the high forties today. Pretty impressive numbers for a President supposedly presiding over a "roaring" economy.

    That's a good link, I'll be keeping an eye on it just as you recommended.
    The scary part is that it should be lower. Far lower.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    The scary part is that it should be lower. Far lower.
    Unquestionably. I think it shows how little the average American pays attention to what's happening.

    On the other hand, I look at Nixon's 25% approval rating when he left office and realize there simply are that many brain-dead assholes in this country.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Unquestionably. I think it shows how little the average American pays attention to what's happening.

    On the other hand, I look at Nixon's 25% approval rating when he left office and realize there simply are that many brain-dead assholes in this country.
    You know I have always felt over the last century that if a populist right wing fascist ran for President he would get 1/3 of the vote, easily, by the American people. I have seen nothing that would deter me from thinking that to this day.

    On a side note I see Trump called the whistleblower a spy then adds you know what we used to do to them in the old days when we were smart. Right. The spies and treason, we used to handle it differently than we do now.

    Mmm, is he thinking Jonathan Pollard way or Rosenberg way???

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    joe,

    That is clear-thinking & concise summation of the situation, you have my sincere compliments.


    On a related note, here's Adam Schiff's summation of the phone call. Dead-on accurate. This is Donald Trump's NYC-born and bred modus operandi
    and that's just the most disturbing stuff. well, there's so much to choose from: his staff trying to hide evidence of this malfeasance on a codeword-classified network, the involvement of Barr in breaking what should have been a confidential whistle-blowing mechanism, POTUS not-so-subtly hinting that the whistle-blower should be executed...

    so much big stuff, no one's talking about stuff like how the Ukrainian President deliberately points out that he's got folks staying at Trump Hotel in an obvious attempt at influencing POTUS.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Sure, "Total Approve" nudged up into the fifties for a few days...and just dropped back into the high forties today. Pretty impressive numbers for a President supposedly presiding over a "roaring" economy.

    That's a good link, I'll be keeping an eye on it just as you recommended.
    Their claim to fame is they got the 2016 result right.

    astralis said it will take at least two years for this impeachment business to complete if it reaches a conclusion.

    Right now, Trump's gearing up for the elections.

    If those numbers remain as is a year from now then he's got a second term.

    Things get iffy if it drops to low forties or below.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Sep 19, at 07:36.

  15. #45
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    You know I have always felt over the last century that if a populist right wing fascist ran for President he would get 1/3 of the vote, easily, by the American people. I have seen nothing that would deter me from thinking that to this day.
    Do you think Regan had that in mind when he said we are always one election away from a dictatorship ?

    think it was Regan who said it.

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