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Trump's 4th Of July Parade

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  • ^ hear hear

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    • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
      There is no such thing as a national consciousness or psyche.
      I disagree.

      It is the conditioning of individuals with an upbringing that reflects that culture. In the end, it is the people, individual human beings, who either feel shame or pride. The soldiers, the people lining up to watch them, and the politicians accepting the military salutes on Bastille Day feels no shame and all pride. Your basis is still out of whack.
      Listen. I'm not looking to change anybody's mind. I couldn't care less if people think the way I do on a given matter, or think otherwise.

      And nothing you've said, or can say, is going to change my mind on the subject.
      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
        They understand the difference between the US Army and the local police and the fact that the Army is apolitical and has never been used against its own people, unless you count the Civil War. There has never been a Tiananmen like incident or anything close to it in the US.
        Bonus Army, 1932.

        The military also rounded up 100,000+ American citizens of Japanese descent during WWII.
        "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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        • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
          Bonus Army, 1932.
          Kent State by the Ohio National Guard, 1970, also comes to mind.

          As for being used against its own people otherwise - Blair Mountain in 1921.
          Last edited by kato; 28 Jul 19,, 16:10.

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          • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
            I disagree.
            What is a "national consciousness or psyche?" It is nothing more than mob memory. Books don't have emotions. Buildings don't have emotions. Land doesn't have emotions. And the mob on Bastille Day does not remember the occupations of Paris. If anything, they remember the exact same thing as the Americans do on 4 July.

            Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
            Listen. I'm not looking to change anybody's mind. I couldn't care less if people think the way I do on a given matter, or think otherwise.

            And nothing you've said, or can say, is going to change my mind on the subject.
            You asked me.
            Chimo

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            • Originally posted by kato View Post
              Kent State by the Ohio National Guard, 1970, also comes to mind.
              The National Guard are federally trained soldiers, under the dual jurisdiction of both the federal and state governments, but in this instance they were ultimately under the control of the governor of Ohio, there because of a request the mayor of the town made to the governor.

              In my view, they weren't functioning in any way as a force of the US Army, but rather were performing state militia functions. When operating under the auspices of the state government in response to emergencies (whether real or perceived), disasters, and civil disturbances, they're not members of or a part of the US military. Their duties and functions are along the lines what most countries would term the gendarmerie.

              The Bonus Army incident in 1932, there were 1500 army troops under the command of Douglas MacArthur, carrying out President Hoover's orders. This was a fully outfitted force, complete with tanks, cavalry, and machine guns. Perhaps in a bit of foreshadowing, MacArthur disobeyed presidential orders when told to stop, and undertook certain actions on his own initiative.

              As for being used against its own people otherwise - Blair Mountain in 1921.
              As opposed to Kent State, the Battle of Blair Mountain is in the same exact league as the Bonus Army incident.
              Last edited by Ironduke; 28 Jul 19,, 17:59.
              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

              Comment


              • Jim Mattis' Reported Response To Trump's Military Parade: "I'd Rather Swallow Acid"

                Former Defense Secretary Jim Mattis was so set against President Donald Trump’s idea to hold a multimillion-dollar military parade in Washington that he reportedly said he’d “rather swallow acid” than watch it, according to a soon-to-be-released book by his former communications director.

                Retired U.S. Navy Cmdr. Guy Snodgrass revealed Mattis’ scathing reaction to Trump’s plan in his upcoming memoir, “Holding the Line: Inside Trump’s Pentagon With Secretary Mattis,” which The Washington Post published excerpts from on Wednesday.

                Trump eventually did hold a “Salute to America” event on this year’s Fourth of July, by which time Mattis (who last week turned one of Trump’s insults against him into a compliment) had already left the administration.

                Snodgrass’ book also reportedly detailed how Mattis attempted to rein in Trump’s alleged attempt to “screw” Amazon founder Jeff Bezos by preventing the company from bidding on a Pentagon cloud networking contract.
                _____________

                Color me surprised...

                I usually don't bother with tell-all books, especially political ones. I might however give this one a shot.
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                • 2020’s activities are scaled back due current events.
                  https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...y-festivities/

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                  • A list of aircraft to participate in the festivities.

                    https://airshowstuff.com/v4/2020/air...gtjj_W-fZLGRjs

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                    • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                      A list of aircraft to participate in the festivities.

                      https://airshowstuff.com/v4/2020/air...gtjj_W-fZLGRjs
                      Damn, that's a lineup for the ages. Wish I could be there.
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                      Comment


                      • The Thunderbirds should be at Langley AFB.
                        https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...d=267550469245

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                        • A great photo furnished by the USAF Thunderbirds!
                          https://m.facebook.com/AFThunderbird...pe=3&source=48

                          Comment


                          • A great shot of USN Blue Angels at Mount Rushmore.
                            https://m.facebook.com/USNavyBlueAng...pe=3&source=48

                            Comment


                            • The second highest-ranking US general told Trump his idea for a big military parade in DC is 'what dictators do,' book says
                              • During his presidency, Trump wanted to hold a big military parade in the nation's capital.
                              • After attending France's Bastille Day celebration, he decided he wanted a lavish parade for the Fourth of July.
                              • A top general, however, told him it's a move that dictators make, an excerpt from an upcoming book said.
                              The second highest-ranking US general told former President Donald Trump that his idea for a big military parade in Washington, DC, is "what dictators do," a new book says.

                              Trump, as has been previously reported, crafted the idea for a military parade after witnessing a lavish Bastille Day celebration in Paris in 2017. He wanted to top it with one of his own during the Fourth of July holiday.

                              Top US generals and officials, however, were less thrilled about the idea, according to an excerpt from a forthcoming book by journalists Susan Glasser and Peter Baker that was published Monday by the New Yorker.

                              James Mattis, then Trump's defense secretary, said he would "rather swallow acid," and other officials said it would cost millions and damage the roads.

                              At one White House meeting, when Trump addressed his idea with Air Force Gen. Paul Selva, then the second highest-ranking general as vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the general suggested the idea was reminiscent of something often seen in dictatorships.

                              When Trump asked Selva what he thought of the parade, Selva responded that he grew up in Portugal, which "was a dictatorship — and parades were about showing the people who had the guns."

                              "And in this country, we don't do that," Selva said, according to the report. "It's not who we are."

                              Trump then asked Selva if he didn't like the idea, to which he responded: "No," adding that "it's what dictators do."


                              The US has held some military parades in DC in the past, most recently in 1991 after America's victory in the Gulf War. After facing pushback on his plans, Trump held a "Salute to America" event on the Fourth of July in 2019 that prominently featured a military flyover and some static military vehicle displays but no tanks in the streets.

                              Throughout his time in the White House, Trump often expressed admiration for dictators or authoritarians like Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese leader Xi Jinping — leaders who hold massive military parades each year. Political scientists who specialize in authoritarianism often warned that Trump's rhetoric and lack of respect for democratic norms emboldened such leaders.

                              Fiona Hill, who served as the top Russia expert on the National Security Council under the Trump administration, in comments to the Daily Beast last year said that Trump has a bad case of "autocrat envy."

                              "He also really liked kings and queens," Hill went on to say of Trump.
                              ________
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                              • The part in bold really enrages me!

                                https://taskandpurpose.com/news/trum...nded-veterans/


                                Trump reportedly didn’t want wounded warriors in his military parade because it wouldn’t ‘look good’


                                “I don’t want them,” he reportedly said. “It doesn’t look good for me.”

                                BY HALEY BRITZKY


                                After viewing a Bastille Day celebration military parade in France in 2017, former President Donald Trump said he wanted something similar for the Fourth of July. But there was one thing the French had that he wanted to be kept out of his parade: Wounded veterans.


                                “Look, I don’t want any wounded guys in the parade,” Trump said, according to a recent article that ran in the New Yorker. “This doesn’t look good for me.”

                                “Those are our heroes,” reportedly countered John Kelly, Trump’s chief of staff and a retired Marine Corps general. “In our society, there’s only one group of people who are more heroic than they are—and they are buried over in Arlington.”

                                “I don’t want them,” Trump reportedly said again. “It doesn’t look good for me.”



                                The account is one of several moments regarding Trump’s thoughts on the military included in a new book by the New York Times’ Peter Baker and the New Yorker’s Susan Glasser, outlined in the New Yorker article published on Monday. It’s reminiscent of reporting from The Atlantic in 2020, which said Trump referred to America’s war dead as “losers” and “suckers” for getting killed. Trump later denied ever making the comments.

                                In the same article, The Atlantic reported that Trump said in 2018 he didn’t want any wounded warriors in a military parade: “Nobody wants to see that,” he reportedly said.

                                In the newest account published Monday, Trump took issue with France’s Bastille Day parade having “several formations of injured veterans, including wheelchair-bound soldiers who had lost limbs in battle.” The New Yorker reports that defense officials around Trump pushed back against the idea of holding a parade at all, with then-Defense Secretary James Mattis quoted as saying he would “rather swallow acid.”


                                When asked by Trump what he thought about the idea of a parade, Air Force Gen. Paul Selva, vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, reportedly tried to wave Trump off.

                                “I didn’t grow up in the United States, I actually grew up in Portugal,” Selva said, according to the New Yorker. “Portugal was a dictatorship—and parades were about showing the people who had the guns. And in this country, we don’t do that … It’s not who we are.”

                                Trump asked, “So, you don’t like the idea?”

                                “No,” Selva reportedly responded. “It’s what dictators do.”

                                Nevertheless, the next year Trump claimed military leaders were “thrilled” to be involved in the “Salute to America” celebration, which included static displays of Bradley Fighting Vehicles, M1 Abrams tanks, and Navy and Air Force flyovers. All in all, the parade was estimated to cost $5.4 million.

                                The break between Trump and defense officials was a frequent feature of his time in office, leading to Mattis’ resignation at the end of 2018, the firing of Defense Secretary Mark Esper, and criticisms of Army Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. That friction is further outlined in the New Yorker article, which detailed months of distrust and disagreements between the president and his senior military advisers. In one moment, Trump complained to Kelly about you “fucking generals,” and asked, “Why can’t you be like the German generals?”

                                “Which generals?” Kelly asked, according to the New Yorker.

                                “The German generals in World War II,” Trump said.

                                “You do know that they tried to kill Hitler three times and almost pulled it off?” Kelly responded.



                                “No, no, no, they were totally loyal to him,” Trump reportedly said. There were dozens of assassination attempts against Hitler reported by historians, including one in July 1944 when a German colonel put a bomb in a briefcase and sat it near Hitler. The bomb detonated, but Hitler ultimately survived.

                                In their article, Glasser and Baker report that the real issue between Trump and the generals was “a matter of values, of how they viewed the United States itself,” which was made clear in Trump’s admonishment of wounded veterans. That gap between them only seemed to grow over his time in office, which was further confirmed by Trump in a statement to the New Yorker.

                                “These were very untalented people,” Trump said, “and once I realized it, I did not rely on them, I relied on the real generals and admirals within the system.”

                                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                                Mark Twain

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