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Thread: What's wrong with Hong Kong (and how to fix it)

  1. #106
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    I have a sliver of sympathy for the protesting youths of Hong Kong, but mostly disdain.
    I'd be interested to know what you might have thought about youth in East Berlin, say late October 1989?
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  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    Thats not the point I was making, Mumbai has a history of Trade that has been established over many centuries, You don't get to just recreate this over a few years... Trade links are established over generations. As with London and New York. They are all jewels and China needs to remember that Hong Kong is that Window for them. So give a bit and receive alot.
    The idea that Hong Kong is a critical "window" for China is pretty well discredited these days. That was very much the case when China was closed, and in the first 25-30 years of the Deng Era, but no longer, for at least a decade or more.

    What Hong Kong has to offer is the boring backoffice stuff: management, ownership, legal department, IPR, capital markets, insurance, banking, accounting, actuaries, auditors, and a very nice place for families (schools, education, culture, entertainment, nature).
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  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    The idea that Hong Kong is a critical "window" for China is pretty well discredited these days. That was very much the case when China was closed, and in the first 25-30 years of the Deng Era, but no longer, for at least a decade or more.

    What Hong Kong has to offer is the boring backoffice stuff: management, ownership, legal department, IPR, capital markets, insurance, banking, accounting, actuaries, auditors, and a very nice place for families (schools, education, culture, entertainment, nature).
    My reading was it was still a comfortable landing spot for corporations looking at investment opportunities within China, somewhere to base themselves without the full on Chinese bureaucracy. From my experience China is still very much corrupt. For example try leaving when your Visa has run out. You can't unless you pay the official.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    No one wants to be an authoritarian society in theory, but they wouldn't do anything about it if life is generally good. Their bigotry and economic outlook must play a role.
    Really? so why did the UK vote to leave the EU ????? pray do tell!

    New money hasn't improved Mainlanders' manners,
    Nothing has

    but old money sure hasn't improved Hong Kongese youths' class.
    Hong Kong was largely peaceful up until recently. That Lam Automaton working for Beijing saw to that though.

    You sound exactly like a Hong Kongese youth with your rhetoric about manners. You use third-person pronoun when referring to them, but you' may well be astroturfing.
    Well I own lawn mower and I can't speak the tongue so highly doubt it
    There are some widely accepted manners, but no objectively correct manners.
    Depending whose country you are visiting. Its pig ignorant to jump the que. To not say thank you etc

    Belittling mainlanders for manners is akin to belittling Asians for eating dogs.
    or cats or a Tigers testicals?

    It's damn shallow and insufficient for cause for violent protests.
    The protests are not about manners, they're about identity and respecting Hong Kong rights. Which are definitely more civilised than mainland chinese ones. China should send some officials to Hong kong where they can learn first hand how not to be corrupt, say thank you etc


    In fact, manners and dog eating are what a lot of Hong Kongese and Taiwanese youths cite when they try to dissociate themselves from the notion China.
    Really, Ripping the skin off live snakes doesn't float my boat either

    The fact that they even try to disassociate themselves from not just the Mainland government but overall Chinese-ness is troubling.
    Its not troubling at all ...They're just better educated
    Last edited by Freyr; 16 Aug 19, at 15:19.

  5. #110
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    China warns UK to stay out of its affairs after arrest of British Consul worker

    China warned the UK not to meddle in its affairs over Hong Kong on Wednesday after the arrest of a British Consulate official worsened already strained ties between Beijing and London.

    Simon Cheng, 28, a trade and investment officer at the Hong Kong consulate’s Scottish Development International section, went missing on August 8 on the way back from a business event in the Chinese city of Shenzhen. Britain has said it is “extremely” concerned.

    News of his disappearance became public on Tuesday, prompting China on Wednesday to confirm that it was holding him on allegations of violating local law, without revealing any further details.

    Geng Shuang, the Chinese foreign ministry spokesman, said the case was linked to China’s Public Security Administration Punishment Law, a statute pertaining to minor violations. Individuals can be held under administrative detention for as long as 15 days, which would be roughly until Friday.

    Mr Geng warned the UK to back away from the affairs of its former colony. “The British side has made a lot of erroneous remarks on Hong Kong,” Mr Geng said, urging London “to stop pointing fingers and making accusations.”

    "He is not a British citizen. He is a Chinese person, so this is entirely a matter of China’s internal affairs," Mr Geng said of Mr Cheng.

    "As for Britain's comments, we've made stern representations to Britain for the series of comments and actions they've made on Hong Kong," he said.

    He also called on Britain to stop interfering in China's internal business.

    "Britain has made a series of wrong statements on Hong Kong. We again urge them to stop gesticulating and to stop fanning the flames," Mr Geng said.

    In a statement issued on Facebook, Mr Cheng’s family said: “We feel very helpless, and are worried sick about Simon. We hope that Simon can return to Hong Kong as soon as possible.”

    Friends of Mr Cheng, staged a rally outside the British Consulate in central Hong Kong on Wednesday urging Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister and Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s First Minister “save” the young man from a Chinese jail.

    “Save Simon Now! Delay No More!” they chanted.

    Max Chung, the rally organiser, who knew Mr Cheng from his student days at the London School of Economics, accused the UK of “failing to show due diligence” towards him. “Mr Boris Johnson, the prime minister, it’s now or never!” he said.

    “We appeal to Boris Johnson and Nicola Sturgeon, we urge you to save Simon. Make this your number one priority now.”

    Michael Mo, a fellow protester, added: “England expects every man to do his duty and we expect every British politician to honour their word.”

    The group was briefly admitted indoors to present a petition calling for the UK to express “specific measures” to protect British Nationals in Hong Kong and to issue a travel warning that British and foreign nationals in Hong Kong could be subjected to “enforced disappearance.”

    Emerging from the building, Mr Chung said senior officials had assured him that they were working “full throttle” to secure Mr Cheng’s freedom.

    However, protesters said that Mr Cheng’s predicament confirmed their worst fears about arbitrary detention by China.

    The Hong Kong protest movement, now in its eleventh week, began over opposition to a planned extradition law that would allow suspects to be sent to trial for the first time in China’s opaque justice system.

    “Simon’s case is “white terror” to everyone in Hong Kong. Because even if you haven’t voiced out your political views, you may still be considered a target, and can be arrested for no reason,” said Duff Li, a protester in his twenties.

    Mr Cheng’s disappearance has also revived fears about the safety of diplomatic personnel in China.

    The diplomatic and expat community has already been put on edge by the December detention of Michael Kovrig, a Hong Kong-based security analyst on leave from Canada’s foreign service, and by the arrest of Michael Spavor, an entrepreneur, who worked

    between China and North Korea.

    Meanwhile, Hong Kong maintained its week long uneasy calm spell on Wednesday night when thousands of protesters gathered at the Yuen Long metro station in the New Territories district on the outskirts of the city to mark one month since a vicious assault on

    dozens of commuters by triad gangs.

    Public anger remains high over the incident, in which at least 45 people were attacked by hundreds of alleged gang members wearing white shirts and wielding sticks. The police were accused of responding too late and of being slow to arrest the perpetrators.

    Protesters crowding the station initially stood in silence, holding one hand over their right eye to symbolise a young female medic who was hit in the face by a police bean bag shot during a demonstration and badly injured

    But there were tense scenes outside the station as locals hurled angry insults at riot police. “Triad cops! Why didn’t you save us last month? Why are you coming now when nothing is happening?” shouted bystanders.

    Violence was close to flaring up when protesters pushed police back from the station entrance with fire extinguishers and closed the gates, briefly locking themselves inside.

    But while the elite Raptors squad lurked on standby, armed with bean bag guns and tear gas, not a shot was fired, and both sides retreated to brace for another weekend of protests as the pro-democracy movement heads into its 12th week.

  6. #111
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    I think we owe it to ourselves to stop buying from this distasteful regime.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    I think we owe it to ourselves to stop buying from this distasteful regime.
    A sentiment i hear often in India.

    Didn't realise Kovrig the Canadian was picked up in HK.

    Left unchecked, this enforced disappearances of foreign nationals can have a chilling effect on international business.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tage-protests/

    Always include link to your source
    Last edited by Double Edge; 24 Aug 19, at 23:00.

  8. #113
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    The people won. China caved. lol.



    Any one saying Hong Kong kids are spoiled is eating their words right now.

    The kids did it.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 04 Sep 19, at 22:57.

  9. #114
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    and so it begins ...

    Protester shot in chest with live police round during Hong Kong National Day protests
    SCMP reporters, Oct 1, 2019

    Three teachers and at least six teenage classmates of the protester shot in the chest earlier have anxiously waited for about 90 minutes at Princess Margaret Hospital for word of his condition. Alumni of Tsuen Wan Public Ho Chuen Yiu Memorial College confirm that the young man is a student there.

    A video circulating online shows events leading to the firing of a live round at the junction of Waterloo Road and Nathan Road. A group of protesters attack a police van with sticks and other projectiles. A few officers get out of the van to try chase them away, but one falls to the ground and is assaulted by protesters. Some officers draw guns and two live rounds are fired. Two of the officers suffer head injuries during a fight with the protesters.

    = = =

    Protester shot as Hong Kong clashes escalate
    By Nicolle Liu and Alice Woodhouse, Financial Times, Oct 1, 2019

    Hong Kong protester was shot with live ammunition for the first time since pro-democracy protests engulfed the city four months ago, as violent clashes between demonstrators and police in the Asian financial hub escalated sharply on the 70th anniversary of Communist party rule in China.
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  10. #115
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    No! this is not how it begins, this was an accident or a lapse of judgment.

    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    A video circulating online shows events leading to the firing of a live round at the junction of Waterloo Road and Nathan Road. A group of protesters attack a police van with sticks and other projectiles. A few officers get out of the van to try chase them away, but one falls to the ground and is assaulted by protesters. Some officers draw guns and two live rounds are fired. Two of the officers suffer head injuries during a fight with the protesters.
    This was self defense. The mistake was getting out of the van.

    From what i've seen the HK police have been quite careful to keep injury to a minimum.

    Then again these HK protesters seem well behaved, strange as that sounds.


    Protester shot as Hong Kong clashes escalate
    By Nicolle Liu and Alice Woodhouse, Financial Times, Oct 1, 2019

    Hong Kong protester was shot with live ammunition for the first time since pro-democracy protests engulfed the city four months ago, as violent clashes between demonstrators and police in the Asian financial hub escalated sharply on the 70th anniversary of Communist party rule in China.
    But see how the media reports it.

    Still, this is the first casualty in over 15 weeks of protesting. Just one.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 01 Oct 19, at 14:20.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    No! this is not how it begins, this was an accident or a lapse of judgment.


    This was self defense. The mistake was getting out of the van.

    From what i've seen the HK police have been quite careful to keep injury to a minimum.

    Then again these HK protesters seem well behaved, strange as that sounds.



    But see how the media reports it.

    Still, this is the first casualty in over 15 weeks of protesting. Just one.
    It is also the first causality in 52 years of protesting.
    Keeping it in perspective is vitally important, as Hong Kong cannot be compared (in this one regard) to just any other city.
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  12. #117
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    It is also the first causality in 52 years of protesting.
    Keeping it in perspective is vitally important, as Hong Kong cannot be compared (in this one regard) to just any other city.
    What i am apprehending is China of 2019 is not the same as China of 1989

    One dead after 15 weeks protesting IN CHINA..

  13. #118
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    DE, I assume you know the difference between Hong Kong and other parts of China, so I am at a loss as to what you are getting at.

    The economic toll is rising...

    In the second quarter of 2003, when Hong Kong was in the grip of deep deflation and tourist arrivals all but vanished due to the threat of SARS, retail sales fell 10.8% from a year earlier. In July and August this year, endless weeks of increasingly violent demonstrations have depressed sales by 17.1%.
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  14. #119
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    I mean when these protests began nobody would say that the protesters would succeed in getting the extradition bill withdrawn. It would be like the last protest in 2014 was not successful and Beijing would appoint CEO of HK.

    Second, people were expecting China to crack down and hard. Not happened. In fact the restraint does not pass unnoticed.

    Maybe i should say these were my perceptions at the outset.

  15. #120
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    This is cool. Swipe around and see full 360


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