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Thread: What's wrong with Hong Kong (and how to fix it)

  1. #91
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Simple question without an answer


  2. #92
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    10 weeks and counting. How do they keep at it.



    It's ironic how these people are pioneering 21st century protest
    Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Aug 19, at 04:53.

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    I thought you would have been in favour of locking down the City, turning all communications off and calling a curfew??

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    I thought you would have been in favour of locking down the City, turning all communications off and calling a curfew??
    hah, now why would you say that. HK does not have any history of armed insurgency : )

    These people aren't advocating for independence, they are pushing back against a bill they see would get them locked up without any due process inside mainland China.

    That they have stuck to their simple, initial demand this long, in territory belonging to China, is impressive.

    What is also surprising is Beijing has allowed it to go on as long. CCP is playing for time. Hoping people will get tired and just move on. Not happening as yet.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Aug 19, at 20:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    hah, now why would you say that. HK does not have any history of armed insurgency : )

    These people aren't advocating for independence, they are pushing back against a bill they see would get them locked up without any due process inside mainland China.

    That they have stuck to their simple, initial demand this long, in territory belonging to China, is impressive.

    What is also surprising is Beijing has allowed it to go on as long. CCP is playing for time. Hoping people will get tired and just move on. Not happening as yet.
    The Youth/students of Hong Kong have realised that 20 years from now when they are in their 40's all their rights will disappear as Hong Kongers and they will become strangers in their own city. So I can't blame them for standing up for themselves either, because they are right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    The Youth/students of Hong Kong have realised that 20 years from now when they are in their 40's all their rights will disappear as Hong Kongers and they will become strangers in their own city. So I can't blame them for standing up for themselves either, because they are right!
    I have a sliver of sympathy for the protesting youths of Hong Kong, but mostly disdain. There are such things as self hate and internalised racism. Some Hong Kongese, under British rule, thought they were superior to people from poorer colonies, just like they think they're superior to Mainlanders under Chinese rule now. They also seem to hold a romanticised view of the West, hoping for a return of British rule or for Trump to save them, which is simply naive and ignorant of history. Then there are those more practical, non-political concerns such as socio-economic immobility and cost of living that are channelled incorrectly into resentment of the Mainland. They may be concerned about democracy, but their stupidity cannot be understated as a cause for their actions.

    From the demographics of the protestors, I also think the political influence of the Mainland is tolerable to people of Hong Kong as a whole. Youths don't have jobs, so the opportunity cost of them not doing whatever they're supposed to be doing is low. The problem would be more profound if the middle class were protesting en masse.

    That's my initial opinion. People with more in-depth knowledge of Hong Kong can correct me where I'm mistaken.
    Last edited by hboGYT; 15 Aug 19, at 14:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    I have a sliver of sympathy for the protesting youths of Hong Kong, but mostly disdain. There are such things as self hate and internalised racism. Some Hong Kongese, under British rule, thought they were superior to people from poorer colonies, just like they think they're superior to Mainlanders under Chinese rule now. They also seem to hold a romanticised view of the West, hoping for a return of British rule or for Trump to save them, which is simply naive and ignorant of history. Then there are those more practical, non-political concerns such as socio-economic immobility and cost of living that are channelled incorrectly into resentment of the Mainland. They may be concerned about democracy, but their stupidity cannot be understated as a cause for their actions.

    From the demographics of the protestors, I also think the political influence of the Mainland is tolerable to people of Hong Kong as a whole. Youths don't have jobs, so the opportunity cost of them not doing whatever they're supposed to be doing is low. The problem would be more profound if the middle class were protesting en masse.

    That's my initial opinion. People with more in-depth knowledge of Hong Kong can correct me where I'm mistaken.
    Its simple , they don't want to be part of an authoritarian society, they have a seperate history going back over a hundred years. I'd look down my nose to if I were a Hong konger....Recent wealth accumulated by many Chinese from the PRC hasn't improved their manners, even when abroad they are very unaware of their own rudeness and seem to think their new wealth allows them to carry on how they choose in someone else country. Hong Konger in comparison are more cultured and Western in their outlook . Far more sophisticated than the mainlanders. Yes confrontation is regrettable but when you are being ignored by the people who say they represent you, it is the alternative to being walked on. I'd be really worried if I were from Hong Kong looking at the way the Chinese authorities treat Muslims in Re-education camps in the NW Chinese province.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    The Youth/students of Hong Kong have realised that 20 years from now when they are in their 40's all their rights will disappear as Hong Kongers and they will become strangers in their own city. So I can't blame them for standing up for themselves either, because they are right!
    I have no idea how they come to terms with such a dilemma.

    Become like any other Chinese city. Not special any more.

    The special part is seen as some colonial hangover by the rest of the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I have no idea how they come to terms with such a dilemma.

    Become like any other Chinese city. Not special any more.

    The special part is seen as some colonial hangover by the rest of the country.
    Well as I have just described, Knowledge and understanding of the outside world is not something you buy, it occurs over generations. China has a jewel and needs to take care of it. So yes Hong Kong is Special, how could it not be. Is Mumbai not Special?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    Well as I have just described, Knowledge and understanding of the outside world is not something you buy, it occurs over generations. China has a jewel and needs to take care of it. So yes Hong Kong is Special, how could it not be. Is Mumbai not Special?
    Bombay is different, people will say they come from there but its not the same as HK'ers saying they come from HK.

    They are from HK first and China last. It's an identity thing.

    What occurs over generations is very hard to reverse.

    If they kick and scream this much now what will it be like when 2047 rolls by

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Simple question without an answer

    She's an Automaton!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Bombay is different, people will say they come from there but its not the same as HK'ers saying they come from HK.

    They are from HK first and China last. It's an identity thing.

    What occurs over generations is very hard to reverse.

    If they kick and scream this much now what will it be like when 2047 rolls by
    Thats not the point I was making, Mumbai has a history of Trade that has been established over many centuries, You don't get to just recreate this over a few years... Trade links are established over generations. As with London and New York. They are all jewels and China needs to remember that Hong Kong is that Window for them. So give a bit and receive alot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    The line that stands out in this clip for me is, they know 2047 is coming one day but they don't want it so soon.

    So they would resist in the same manner any step China invokes that is seen as taking away any existing rights & freedoms. From now till then. There is a pattern of doing this since 2003. The present protest has gone on longer than earlier ones.

    Ideally, what China intends for 2047 never happens but that is just it. Ideally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyr View Post
    Its simple , they don't want to be part of an authoritarian society, they have a seperate history going back over a hundred years. I'd look down my nose to if I were a Hong konger....Recent wealth accumulated by many Chinese from the PRC hasn't improved their manners, even when abroad they are very unaware of their own rudeness and seem to think their new wealth allows them to carry on how they choose in someone else country. Hong Konger in comparison are more cultured and Western in their outlook . Far more sophisticated than the mainlanders. Yes confrontation is regrettable but when you are being ignored by the people who say they represent you, it is the alternative to being walked on. I'd be really worried if I were from Hong Kong looking at the way the Chinese authorities treat Muslims in Re-education camps in the NW Chinese province.
    No one wants to be an authoritarian society in theory, but they wouldn't do anything about it if life is generally good. Their bigotry and economic outlook must play a role.

    New money hasn't improved Mainlanders' manners, but old money sure hasn't improved Hong Kongese youths' class.

    You sound exactly like a Hong Kongese youth with your rhetoric about manners. You use third-person pronoun when referring to them, but you' may well be astroturfing.

    There are some widely accepted manners, but no objectively correct manners. Belittling mainlanders for manners is akin to belittling Asians for eating dogs. It's damn shallow and insufficient for cause for violent protests. In fact, manners and dog eating are what a lot of Hong Kongese and Taiwanese youths cite when they try to dissociate themselves from the notion China. The fact that they even try to disassociate themselves from not just the Mainland government but overall Chinese-ness is troubling.
    Last edited by hboGYT; 16 Aug 19, at 01:00.

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