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Thread: What's wrong with Hong Kong (and how to fix it)

  1. #61
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Q. What's wrong with Hong Kong?
    A. PRC.

    Q. How to fix it?
    A. An independent country, plus democracy.
    I think what has got people out is business interests. If HK becomes just another Chinese city then it isn't difficult for companies to shift to Singapore to have a more equitable legal system.

    This then means HK's economy contracts and people are trying to defend against that. Defend against CCP's ad hoc interference whenever. Even go to the extent to put up the British flag, this bit is quite surprising.

    I cannot see any other way to get as many people out on the street in the heat unless their employer supported it.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Jul 19, at 10:40.

  2. #62
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I think what has got people out is business interests. If HK becomes just another Chinese city then it isn't difficult for companies to shift to Singapore to have a more equitable legal system.

    This then means HK's economy contracts and people are trying to defend against that. Defend against CCP's ad hoc interference whenever. Even go to the extent to put up the British flag, this bit is quite surprising.

    I cannot see any other way to get as many people out on the street in the heat unless their employer supported it.
    This is what the foreign press has already talked about.

    I don't know if people are trying to defend their employer or their business interests, but it seems unlikely that HKers would want to live under the Chinese hammer.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  3. #63
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    This is what the foreign press has already talked about.

    I don't know if people are trying to defend their employer or their business interests, but it seems unlikely that HKers would want to live under the Chinese hammer.
    They see their livelihood ie standard of living under threat.

    There is also the identity thing. I saw a stat somewhere that said only 15% identify with China, asked where they are from the rest always say HK.

    HK is a city state, like Singapore.

  4. #64
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    They see their livelihood ie standard of living under threat.

    There is also the identity thing. I saw a stat somewhere that said only 15% identify with China, asked where they are from the rest always say HK.

    HK is a city state, like Singapore.
    That I agree with.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  5. #65
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I think what has got people out is business interests. If HK becomes just another Chinese city then it isn't difficult for companies to shift to Singapore to have a more equitable legal system.

    This then means HK's economy contracts and people are trying to defend against that. Defend against CCP's ad hoc interference whenever. Even go to the extent to put up the British flag, this bit is quite surprising.

    I cannot see any other way to get as many people out on the street in the heat unless their employer supported it.
    Sorry, the economic argument is quite a ways off base, and the employers of two million people didn't really factor in. Local Hong Kong companies do business where ever it makes sense, Shenzhen, Hanoi, Chittagong, where ever there's a buck to be made. Moving factories or supply chains from one place to another is normal, not something to spark mass demonstrations.

    This isn't being led by business interests; they are only very reluctantly offering support for very broad concerns about the extradition bill, but not for the other demands.

    This movement isn't being led at all, to be frank. It is coordinated in a minimal sense on social media and aside from a few hundred hot-heads wrecking havoc, the hundreds of thousands of marchers really would rather have a peaceful protest. This time, it is more about the frustration young people feel at being unable to afford to move out of their parents' public housing flats; at being unable to see a career path that will allow them to live in comfort; at being told time and again to be patient; and at seeing a steady encroachment on their freedoms.

    As such, there is no real end game.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  6. #66
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    This movement isn't being led at all, to be frank. It is coordinated in a minimal sense on social media and aside from a few hundred hot-heads wrecking havoc, the hundreds of thousands of marchers really would rather have a peaceful protest. This time, it is more about the frustration young people feel at being unable to afford to move out of their parents' public housing flats; at being unable to see a career path that will allow them to live in comfort; at being told time and again to be patient; and at seeing a steady encroachment on their freedoms.

    As such, there is no real end game.
    Yes i heard it was organised via social media.

    I was trying to figure how you get people out, grow their numbers, keep them there, for several days all in the heat & humidity.

    Building & repeated frustrations.

  7. #67
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    If HK becomes just another Chinese city then it isn't difficult for companies to shift to Singapore to have a more equitable legal system.
    Singapore is too far away. the Philippines is the best bet for ethnic Chinese investors in the region. I would like to see more Chinatowns in the country.

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    Of course foreign forces are at work in Hong Kong

    Are there foreign forces interfering in Hong Kong affairs and fomenting unrest? Of course, there are. Just because local opposition figures laugh it off and ridicule such claims doesn’t make them untrue. And I am not even talking about long-ago, on-record funding of local anti-China groups by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), which is financed by the United States Congress.

    Just consider two incidents from last month, a lively period of anti-government protests.

    Riding on her high horse, but acting in the most irresponsible way possible, the British Labour Party’s shadow Asia minister, Helen Goodman, released the names of the most senior expatriate officers responsible for conducting anti-riot operations last month. The officers and their families have been subjected to vitriolic cyber attacks and physical threats.

    How did Goodman identify the expat officer responsible for authorising the use of tear gas? Hong Kong police carefully guarded such operational details from the public, but it would not be difficult for British government agents, including those working at the consulate in Admiralty, to obtain them. After all, the local force was called, not long ago, the Royal Hong Kong Police. The British government just handed over, without a fight, the information to a member of the opposition on request. What did they think Goodman would do with it?

    Another serious incident is a leaked Skype conversation between Chinese fugitive billionaire Guo Wengui, now in the US, and disqualified localist legislator Leung Chung-hang during a protest last month. Neither man has issued a denial.

    During the 15-plus minute conversation, Guo offered Leung “complete financial support” and that he had established full protection for him with the US government, including the Congress, State Department and the American consulate in Hong Kong.

    Guo may be exaggerating his influence with the United States government, but we shouldn’t underestimate it either. According to The New York Times, he has formed a US$100 million fund – called the Rule of Law Fund – with former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon, with the express goal of undermining the Chinese Communist Party.

    Both men are friends of Kyle Bass, the hedge fund manager who has been short-selling the yuan and presumably the Hong Kong dollar and its denominated assets as well; he claimed in April that “Hong Kong currently sits atop one of the largest financial time bombs in history”.

    I ask: who benefits from Hong Kong’s unrest and instabilities?

    https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion...work-hong-kong
    the US and UK needs to Fvck off from Hong Kong and the rest of Asia and pay their liabilities to the Philippines thank you.

  9. #69
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    better be careful with what you're smokin', Uncle Duterte might come get you.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pnoy View Post
    the US and UK needs to Fvck off from Hong Kong and the rest of Asia and pay their liabilities to the Philippines thank you.
    Isn't the future of Hong Kong a matter for those who live there? What 'liabilities' do you claim the US and UK owe you? Liberty from a Japanese slave camp perhaps?

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    Uncle Duterte might come get you.
    on the contrary, he is out to get the United Snakes so better watch out.

    Isn't the future of Hong Kong a matter for those who live there?
    the future of China is a matter for those who live there, and Hong Kong is a part of China, therefore the opinion of the whole of China is what should be heard. Hong Kong is China. Ukraine, Baltics and Alaska is Russia. Deal with it.

    What 'liabilities' do you claim the US and UK owe you?
    Payment for the lease of the Subic and Clark facilities as well as damages from the toxic waste residues that the Americans didn't bothered to clean up when they decided to leave the bases when asked by the PH government to pay the proper rent.

    Liberty from a Japanese slave camp perhaps?
    The US has no choice but to clear the Philippines of Japanese forces anyways. In other words, we didn't asked you for any help. so America's actions in the PH during WWll is irrelevant. So better pay up and stop backstabbing us Filipinos.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pnoy View Post
    on the contrary, he is out to get the United Snakes so better watch out.
    Did someone hear a cricket?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pnoy View Post
    the future of China is a matter for those who live there, and Hong Kong is a part of China, therefore the opinion of the whole of China is what should be heard. Hong Kong is China. Ukraine, Baltics and Alaska is Russia. Deal with i
    Hiow about you deal with it. Russia sold Alaska to the US and it's American territory whether you like it or not. Russia says so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pnoy View Post
    Payment for the lease of the Subic and Clark facilities as well as damages from the toxic waste residues that the Americans didn't bothered to clean up when they decided to leave the bases when asked by the PH government to pay the proper rent.
    Your BS is stinking. The leases are done and paid for. Nothing is owing. When the PH told the US to leave, they assume ALL RESPONSIBILITY to those bases. Take it up with Manila not doing their lawyering instead of bellyaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pnoy View Post
    The US has no choice but to clear the Philippines of Japanese forces anyways. In other words, we didn't asked you for any help. so America's actions in the PH during WWll is irrelevant. So better pay up and stop backstabbing us Filipinos.
    Learn some goddamned history. The Battle of the Phillipines is due to one man and one man alone, Douglas MacArthur. Everyone else wanted to go for Formasa. Had Nimitz got his way, your Phillipines would have belonged to Indonesia. Plus a few more years of Japanese torture, rape, pillaging, and brutality.

    So shut up and be thankful you're not Indonesian because the US rescued you from the Japanese.

    Dumbass pretend know it all. No one owes you nothing. The world is cruel. Shut up and stop whining. God, I didn't believe people can be so entitled. You're going to get jack all from this Canadian.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 09 Jul 19, at 06:52.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pnoy View Post
    on the contrary, he is out to get the United Snakes so better watch out.
    For what? Are you going to revert to terrorism against the West?



    Quote Originally Posted by Pnoy View Post
    Ukraine, Baltics and Alaska is Russia.
    About 3,500 dead Muscovites were told that and buried in private or in unmarked graveyards in Donbass. Over 650 are filling Ukrainian prisons which we do not have capacity for so some have been detailed to build their own PoW camps.

    You know nothing of Central Europe evidently so my best advice to you is not speak of that which you know nothing. It only makes you look a fool.


    Where did the UK come into this? I thought you blamed them too?

  14. #74
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    About 3,500 dead Muscovites were told that and buried in private or in unmarked graveyards in Donbass. Over 650 are filling Ukrainian prisons which we do not have capacity for so some have been detailed to build their own PoW camps.
    Western propagandists are well known for throwing out random lies and later claiming them as facts. Believing these lies is what makes one person a fool. What you believe or opinions you may have wont change anything. Russia will take back its rightful territories. But I do not hate you. You are probably just brainwashed by the west like a big number of the Ukrainian population. But what you fail to realize is that you are all Russians and are part of the Russian world and so eventually you will fall back to the warm embrace of the Greater Russian nation. The UK has been a rival of Russia since medieval times so it is not a surprise to hear whining and bltching from them everytime Russia scores another point in world politics

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    Name:  1454597287.jpg
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    http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1454596666

    Since Muscovy recognised Ukrainian borders (including Crimea) in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum and other treaties it cannot now claim (and actually doesn't) claim as you do that parts of or all Ukrainian territory belongs to Moscow.

    I the UK has good reason to be annoyed. Muscovy took radioactive materiel to London to murder a UK citizen. Then it used novichuck to try to poison a spy they released and his innocent daughter (a Muscovite citizen at the time) in Salisbury. Then then just discarded the container of this highly toxic agent which resulted in the death of an innocent British civilian. You think that's decent behaviour of a responsible state? Friendly? It is an attack on British citizens.

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