Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910
Results 136 to 139 of 139

Thread: What's wrong with Hong Kong (and how to fix it)

  1. #136
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    08 Mar 11
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,058
    tbm3fan,

    So where do you land on the scale of freedoms vs. totalitarian semi-capitalistic regime.
    Now you've moved outside the scope of this discussion.
    It doesn't matter what I think; that's not something for this thread.
    Stick to the subject, please.

    I think Xi is stuck back in ancient times when China was ruled by numerous warlords fracturing China for their personal fiefdoms.
    I don't recall China moving away from warlords (of one kind or another), factions or personal fiefdoms for more than a dozen years or so.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  2. #137
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    01 Nov 09
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    3,736
    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    tbm3fan,
    Now you've moved outside the scope of this discussion.
    It doesn't matter what I think; that's not something for this thread.
    Stick to the subject, please.
    My mistake and here I thought the subject revolved a lot around the protests which have called everything into question re: integration, economy, and the political. I gather freedoms, which much of the protests are about don't figure into the mix. Seems to me if they are not considered then nothing can be solved in any manner except by force. Force, of course, renders the whole discussion moot as there will simply be a decree. I see freedom, as in my question, to be the most integral part since many protests and revolutions involved freedoms. Redistribute is a pipe dream here.

    Twenty years after the Handover, the experimental “one country, two system” political arrangement is facing its greatest challenges. Street protests, legislative log jams, political disappearances, and open interference in Hong Kong’s internal affairs by Mainland officials are threatening to make the SAR ungovernable. Before a full-blown crisis dictates unpalatable responses, steps must be taken to redistribute power, revitalize the roles of the Chief Executive and Legislative Council, and rein in Beijing’s role in Hong Kong’s strictly domestic affairs.
    As far as your opinion I am funny about that. I tend not to get into discussions where someone is detached from consequences. Not my style as every discussion has humans ultimately affected in the end. I want to know where the person stands emotionally inside before getting deep into things.

    A good current example. US withdrawing troops from Northern Syria based on not getting involved in some typical mideast squabble. Sounds reasonable on the face of it and we can discuss it all day from a geopolitical viewpoint. However, in the end, human lives are involved and many could die due to our detachment. I'm not detached I want to know the human costs involved before I get into the discussion. Hong Kong is similar.

  3. #138
    New Member
    Join Date
    10 Oct 19
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    1
    There are much newer precedents of unpopular bills being withdrawn. 2012 education bill protest is an example. That protest made Joshua Wong popular.

  4. #139
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    08 Mar 11
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,058
    tbm3fan,

    The core issue is that the Basic Law offers rights and freedoms that the HK SAR Government cannot guarantee. Until (and unless) the CCP decides to back off and let the SAR Government enforce its own laws without any interference from outside, that will remain the problem.

    Hong Kong got rich off of China; without China, there was never any need for Hong Kong to exist. During the 30 years when China was closed to the outside world (1950-79), Hong Kong had to come up with new ways to make a living (low-end manufacturing), but it quickly abandon those when China opened up. Too much competition. As the only place on the continent to offer a western style rule of law, bureaucracy, education system, medical care, and a host of other things westerners like, Hong Kong attracted the business and finance that sought to do business in China.

    As with New York or London, that drives up the cost of living beyond reach for those who are not competing at the world class end of the spectrum. Unlike New York and London, Hong Kong people generally don’t move just outside the commuter belt and carry on doing what they did before the city became too expensive. The simple reason is that the nature of their society – laws, courts, schools, hospitals, etc. – stops less than five miles from the last subway station. In essence, the people of Hong Kong are trapped in an expensive city.

    You suggest that only force can solve the problem because there is no consideration of freedom. I would put it differently: force will be used to temporarily suppress dissent because China is ruled by the CCP, which knows of no other way to deal with dissent. By its very nature, the CCP cannot compromise.

    You also suggest that once force is used, the city will be ruled by decree, and here I think we part company. I can envisage an outcome where Hong Kong continues to largely be governed by the same norms as before, but with no tolerance for massive street protests. (If you chose to define ‘freedom’ as the ability to shut down the city with large-scale protests, then we have to better define our terms.)

    I am a political and economic analyst. If I inject my personal opinion into discussions where there is far more useful information to be found in a narrative of the facts, I do my clients a disservice. When I give my opinion, I try to define it as such. Sorry if I wasn’t clear about that.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 4 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 4 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Hong Kong is going Commie.
    By xinhui in forum East Asia and the Pacific
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 18 Jul 10,, 08:54
  2. Hong Kong Independence
    By Skywatcher in forum East Asia and the Pacific
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07 Aug 09,, 03:38
  3. Hong Kong's Economy
    By Shuimo in forum East Asia and the Pacific
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 20 Jan 09,, 10:30

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •