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  • Ok so the three candidates for India's fixed-wing naval aviation component are:

    F/A-18 Super Hornet
    Folded Wing Span 9.32 m / 30 ft 6 in

    MiG-29K
    Folded Wing Span 7.5 m / 24 ft 6 in

    Rafale-M
    Wing Span 10.90 m / 35 ft 9 in

    I found this blurb from 4 years ago, quite interesting:

    Despite recent reports that the two Western MRCBF competitors could operate from INS Vikramaditya in addition to the Indian Navy’s future carriers, this is simply not possible. The converted Soviet-era ‘aircraft carrying cruiser’ has two aircraft elevators that are located within the flight deck, instead of on the deck-edges, and both are too small to accommodate either the Super Hornet or the Rafale. The larger forward lift, beside the carrier’s superstructure, is 18.8 x 9.9 metres, while the Super Hornet’s wings fold to just under 10 metres and the Rafale’s wings, slightly less than 11 metres wide, do not fold at all. The aft lift is narrower, with an 8.6-metre width that is barely able to fit the MiG-29K’s 7.5-metre folded span. The Naval LCA, with a wingspan of a little over eight metres, would certainly have fit the forward lift if not the aft one – the Navy prefers for aircraft carrier elevators to be sufficiently larger than the aircraft they will carry for ease of aircraft handling and movement.

    The real ‘show stopper’ for the entire MRCBF requirement, however, is the configuration of IAC-1. Unlike Vikramaditya, and like most contemporary carriers, the aircraft lifts on IAC-1 are positioned on the starboard edge of the deck allowing longer aircraft to ‘hang out’ over the water with only their landing gear on the platform. But because the carrier was designed around an air wing of MiG-29Ks and Naval LCAs, the lifts were sized for wingspans no larger than eight metres. 10 x 14 metres, to be precise. While MiG-29Ks and N-LCAs can fit on these lifts with parts of their noses or empennages hanging over the edges, the Super Hornet and Rafale once again cannot.

    Both Boeing and Dassault are apparently working on solutions to allow their aircraft to fit the lifts. Sources close to the programme said that Boeing is considering a system that would allow the Super Horner to sit canted on the lift, the tilt of the (folded) wings thereby resulting in a slightly shorter overall span measured parallel to the deck. With its fixed wings, the Rafale cannot offer such a solution, and Dassault is understood to be exploring a detachable wingtip, although this involves greater engineering and certification challenges. Link
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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    • Boeing's India Fighter Sales head thinks the hornets have a chance

      F/A-18 Block III Super Hornet can operate effectively from Indian Navy aircraft carriers: Ankur Kanaglekar, Boeing | Financial Express | Jul 26 2021

      The saga will continue until the 3rd Carrier comes online. I'm not sure if it will or not because i heard talk that we were opting for 6 subs instead.

      Last I read the IN doctrine is area domination as opposed to denial which argues for a third carrier.

      The next step in India's naval aviation project will be INS Vishaal, a 65,000-ton conventionally propelled, domestically produced CATOBAR (Catapult Assisted Take-Off But Arrested Recovery) carrier. With experience gleaned from the experience with Vikrant, the design and construction of the carrier will hopefully go more smoothly.

      It appears as if India will have unprecedented access to US technology for the construction of Vishaal, including the EMALS electromagnetic catapult system used on the Gerald R Ford class. Unlike Vikrant or Vikramaditya, Vishaal will be able to launch and recover heavy strike aircraft, as well as early warning planes such as the E-2 Hawkeye. Vishaal is supposed to enter service by 2030, although that timeline may be optimistic, said Robert Farley.
      Rationale behind India developing fleet of aircraft carriers | ET | Mar 01 2021
      Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Aug 21,, 00:07.

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      • Wouldn't Vishaal realistically rather be a replacement for Vikramaditya?

        I mean, yeah, India only commissioned her in 2013, but if actual in-service date of Vishaal is more likely around the mid-2030s the hull of Vikramaditya will be over 50 years old.

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        • Originally posted by kato View Post
          Wouldn't Vishaal realistically rather be a replacement for Vikramaditya?

          I mean, yeah, India only commissioned her in 2013, but if actual in-service date of Vishaal is more likely around the mid-2030s the hull of Vikramaditya will be over 50 years old.
          You're right

          Navy to get aircraft carrier Vikrant, missile destroyer Visakhapatnam in 2021 | HT | Apr 27 2021

          With the Indian Navy deciding to give preference to nuclear powered conventional submarines in future sea-warfare, the third aircraft carrier also called INS Vishal will now be seen as a replacement for the presently serving INS Vikramaditya.

          India’s sole aircraft carrier is currently under maintenance and will be available for operations in the coming months. The decision to project INS Vishal as a replacement for INS Vikramaditya means that the third aircraft carrier plan has not been shelved. Instead, it will go on concurrently so that there is no gap when INS Vikramaditya is decommissioned and mothballed.
          Much clearer to say replacement instead of 3rd AC. In reality India will have just two operational aircraft carriers

          Hornets and Rafale will be in play for Vishal which won't have the elevator size limitation.
          Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Aug 21,, 22:04.

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          • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
            Joe, quick question...do you know how much smaller the elevators are as compared to a Nimitz?

            Their size really necks down the aircraft it can have aboard.
            They are 10m wide. As of now only 2 aircraft fit on them well - the Mig-29K and the LCA Navy Mk1 which is not going to be bought by the Navy from what we know. Boeing did some tests and they suggested a solution where the F-18SH can be made to fit by tilting on its landing gear. Dassault offered to build a Rafale-M with detachable wingtips to make it fit. Neither solution is clean and perhaps practical. Somebody in the Navy goofed up pretty bad when they accepted the design with the lift width being what it was.

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            • Originally posted by WION

              India's first indegenous made aircraft carrier IAC Vikrant sets sail in third phase of trials
              09 January 2022

              India's first indegenous made aircraft carrier IAC Vikrant has set sail in its third phase of trials. IAC Vikrant set sail for the first time in August on a five day trial followed by a ten-day trial in October.

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              WION -The World is One News, examines global issues with in-depth analysis. We provide much more than the news of the day. Our aim to empower people to explore their world. With our Global headquarters in New Delhi, we bring you news on the hour, by the hour. We deliver information that is not biased. We are journalists who are neutral to the core and non-partisan when it comes to the politics of the world.

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