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Thread: Mass shootings at mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand

  1. #16
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    I have had the same thinking along these lines for many years now.
    Right, its the ultimate because who could we bomb back then ? No need to infiltrate as the situation will be self sustaining.

    I see much larger ramifications for an attack like this in India than in NZ or Norway. Where it can be considered a one off and won't be repeated. An aberration.

    Could the Paks take a page out of the Russian play book. Support far right groups in India with the idea that something like this can be done ?

    How feasible is it. I think it is harder than it looks. Where are the lone wolves to pull it off. I'm fairly certain no fringe group would even consider it as the consequences are obvious. I also think these groups are all compromised anyway by security people. What they are doing is well known to those in power.

    What this guy expresses i see a lot of on the internet already. But there is a difference between saying something and actually doing it.

    In these white groups it becomes very difficult to tell when something said is just a joke and when its serious.

    And if you are serious there is always the skills barrier to overcome.

    Can't get assault rifles as easily and the know how to assemble working bombs is non-existent or very hard to come by.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 17 Mar 19, at 18:08.

  2. #17
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    God bless.

    Just put a bullet in the perp and be done with it

  3. #18
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    New Zealand gunman's family 'shattered' by his deeds

    Any change in behaviour, talks, stances, etcetera comes to the notice of the family first.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  4. #19
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Various news sources I've read have pictures of a lot of people going to the site and offer flowers & condolences to the dead. Predominantly white people. As it is, my belief in good people becomes ever more clear. They outnumber the bad ones.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  5. #20
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  6. #21
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    It's not white vs non-white. I don't even know if race applies here but definitely its anti-muslim everything. So cultural ? Muslims are taking over white/native space. A white muslim (convert) would not be spared possibly hated more & considered a traitor. Almost sectarian like but this guy isn't purporting to defend Christians. Kiwi PM's got it right.

    Anders Brevik didn't even kill muslims he killed some Norwegian kids (all white) who he considered traitors for condoning multiculturalism. Supporters of policy that allow muslims into the country. That guy in his teens moved with some Pak gangs in Norway and just developed a complete hatred for muslims as a result. Rabidly anti-left who he blamed for enacting policies that allow muslims into the country.

    This guys identifies with Brevik who also wrote some 70pg manifesto. Brevik talked about Lebanon and how muslims turned on the Christians, to grab their land. Course that there was a civil war going on at the time isn't appreciated.

    There was a shooting at a gurudwara in the states some years back, i'm more inclined to see that attack as rascist.

    Btw, the Paks would dearly love to ignite a conflict like this in India. Get a hindu to do what this guy did. Not working yet regardless of the numerous attacks & bombings.
    'Racism' has never had a simple 'biological' definition. Remember that Hitler thought a fair chunk of Europe were a sufficiently different race that they needed to be enslaved or wiped out, yet they were basically the same people. Serbs and Croats ARE the same people, yet the ingrained prejudices involved there are quite reasonably described as 'racism'.

    'Racism' has long history of describing ethno-cultural/religious prejudices of all sorts. Some neatly fit into 'biological race' categories (though some might reasonably question if those categories have much meaning beyond the visual), others are about ethnic, national or cultural difference. Often these factors combine in various ways, so nice neat categories are a pedant's imposition on reality.

    In the case of this vile person he made it clear that his motivation was based on his own racial/ethnic identity and the desire to rid 'European lands' of 'foreign' cultures (that he is not on European land and IS a foreign culture likely never occurred to him). He referenced Nazi, neo-Nazi and extreme right wing symbols including flashing one in court. He referenced people who have attacked non-whites in Europe (not just Muslims). He also referenced 'replacement theory', which has links to anti-semitism. Remember the filth at Charlotte shouting 'Jews will not replace us'?

    This is undoubtedly about racism - the violent, nativist kind. He is a white supremacist steeped in the online world of white supremacists. This is 'white v non-white', but not in a strict 'biological' sense. To this guy white is a race, ethnicity and culture. Like Brevik he saw himself as defending the white race.


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  7. #22
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    BF

    Would you characterise Brevik's attack as racist ?

    The reason i'm avoiding the rascist word is its vague and does not hold if the same occurred in India yet the root cause could be identical.

    A reaction to muslim terrorism which manifests itself as Islamophobia. Now that can be expressed in many ways, this is just the most extreme way.

    This is 'white v non-white', but not in a strict 'biological' sense. To this guy white is a race, ethnicity and culture. Like Brevik he saw himself as defending the white race.
    If you can't pin it down then it does not apply.

    The motivations are political. NZ's policies and Norway's policies.

    This is almost ISIS like, in the mirror.

    Guy gets radicalised online decides to go on a killing spree for a greater cause.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Mar 19, at 16:32.

  8. #23
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    You're overthinking this. It's us vs them. He has declared to be them. Put a bullet in him and be done with.

  9. #24
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Mar 19, at 21:22.

  10. #25
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    O dear, i remember New Zealand from 2000 as such a peaceful country, so strange how the world has changed in these 20 years.
    cheers

  11. #26
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuku View Post
    O dear, i remember New Zealand from 2000 as such a peaceful country, so strange how the world has changed in these 20 years.
    New Zealand still is a peaceful country. This was one person doing one terrible thing. I would hate to think any of our nations would be defined by a single event.


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  12. #27
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuku View Post
    O dear, i remember New Zealand from 2000 as such a peaceful country, so strange how the world has changed in these 20 years.
    An Aussie who wants to preserve European heritage (presumably in Europe) decided to do an attack in NZ. So the saving grace here is a Kiwi didn't do it.

    Why did he go to NZ, does it mean Oz is in the clear. If Europe is what he's so concerned about why not in Europe

    Abdul Aziz: Saved lives by running at gunman in mosque | Radio NZ | Mar 17 2019

    Abdul Aziz originally from Kabul moved to Oz when he was young. Lived there 25 years which makes him an Aussie. Now just one alone is trouble, Aussie Afghan is deadly. Then he moved to NZ

    Threw a credit card machine at the gunman, then chased him with an empty shotgun the shooter left behind, threw the gun at the shooters car window.

    He tried the draw the gunman towards him and challenge him. Wow.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Mar 19, at 04:59.

  13. #28
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    Yes, may the place stay as peaceful as i imagine. For all the nice and kind people i met there all those 19 years ago.

    Afghans are a brave lot, have seen that personally, there are a lot of them now in Delhi.

    The world has changed though, no one can deny that.
    cheers

  14. #29
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Yeah they're brave. Getting mercilessly & ruthlessly slaughtered in Afghanistan. Still they're fighting.

  15. #30
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    New Zealand bans sale of assault, semi-automatic rifles in Christchurch aftermath, 'no point applying for permits,' says Jacinda Ardern


    "In short, every semi-automatic weapon used in the terrorist attack on Friday will be banned in this country," she said.

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