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Jaish terrorists attack CRPF convoy in Kashmir, 40 killed

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  • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    I interpret it as non-military, pre-emptive. Not directed at the Pak state, its military, its people or its economy. Nothing new here.

    She said it when addressing the women's BJP wing, comparing security now with 26/11
    That is what the Government's interpretation is. There is no need to talk about the same issues again and again. The more Indians talk, the more spin the DGISPR gives it. Doesn't fulfil any purpose. India should have instead said 'we killed 250 abduls, alongwith their handlers/trainers of which 10 were PA regulars and another 10 ISI spooks', and let the common abduls fight it out with their military abduls.

    Top 10 LoC traders under finance ministry probe

    It's peanuts. Close down the damn trade with Pakistan.
    Last edited by Oracle; 20 Apr 19,, 13:03.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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    • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
      That is what the Government's interpretation is. There is no need to talk about the same issues again and again. The more Indians talk, the more spin the DGISPR gives it. Doesn't fulfil any purpose.
      The govt isn't talking about it at least not in a formal manner. She mentioned it in an interaction and got quoted.

      I don't have a problem with the govt saying it, they get the bragging rights after taking the risk. It gets problematic when the opposition wades into the conversation.

      India should have instead said 'we killed 250 abduls, alongwith their handlers/trainers of which 10 were PA regulars and another 10 ISI spooks', and let the common abduls fight it out with their military abduls.
      We did say something like that, let's say some people associated with the govt said it.

      And then what happened ? the opposition was all over it demanding proof and whatnot. As vociferously as the Paks would have.
      Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Apr 19,, 15:04.

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      • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        Moeed is an ISI hack. What does he mean by mature arsenals? 5kn tactical nukes are mature arsenals?
        That and the ones on their missiles that can range most of India.

        After an aerial strike, one doesn't sleep peacefully. One becomes more alert. And yes, your impression is correct, but PAF doing more? LMAO!


        IAF hit the terrorist camp at Balakote. If IAF was unsuccessful, why did they try to attack Army installations the next day? What IAF did was rape the Pakistani air-space overtly, dropped payloads, killed 300 or so illiterate jihadi abduls of Pakistan, and came back unscathed. This was no demonstration. What the PAF wanted to do the next day, was to destroy a couple of targets inside India. They could not. The border areas with Pakistan was on full alert. We lost a Mig-21B. And we shot down a PAF F-16.
        Underlined bit is what i mean by PAF wanting to do more.

        Now here's the tricky bit. Let's say they wanted to hit Nagrota HQ and did. Would we ignore it. No, we would strike back. The score would then be 2 -1 and the onus would be on the Paks to respond.

        Instead of the 1 -1 it ended with. Or you could think of it as 1 - 0 since they didn't hit anything whereas we did at Balakote.

        This brings back the question whether they intended to hit anything and i can't answer it in the definitive. My hunch is they wanted to hit something.

        Paks are ahead in the terrorist propaganda perception game. Nothing else. Nobody, other than terrorists and their sympathisers believe what comes out from Pakistan. I agree with Brahma. We should have send strikes packages inside Pak and destroyed some of their army installations, as well as send a message that the IAF pilot in custody needs to be returned ASAP. Any mischief from the Pak side again, we should have used our Navy to lighten up Karachi (Navy was already deployed). India should stop dealing Pakistani terrorism with kid gloves.
        Brahma's argument is that Balakote and subsequent actions should have been deterrence in aim. Were they ? No, to me it was about raising costs and targeted the terrorists only. As for the bolded bit, had they hit our military installations then we could reply in that manner. But to do so ab initio means its easier for the Paks to respond. By not hitting their military it complicated their counter attack targeting (what do they hit?) and puts them on the spot because it simplifies our response.

        The same argument was made about the first surgical strike. That it did not deter. It was not meant to deter. It was one step up the ladder (crossed the LoC) that led to Balakote (crossed the intl border). There would be no Balakote without the first strike. And Balakote will lead to future actions that will be further escalatory.

        We're testing the waters with these strikes, 1 & 2 and gauging reactions.

        To deter takes much more than a surgical strike. It would take a limited war. Like China did in '62 or we did in '71 and i don't think we want to do that.

        To do what Brahma wants also means going further up the escalatory ladder unless we're able to achieve a spectacular win somehow.

        Let's say when they did their counter strike, instead of just one F16, we got eight of their jets. That would deter them in the future.

        Another way to build deterrence to counter attacks is to beef up the military. They watch our acquisitions and at some point the risk of response becomes too high.
        Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Apr 19,, 14:17.

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        • ‘If Pakistan hadn’t returned Abhinandan…’: PM Modi on tensions after Balakot | HT | Apr 21 2019

          “A senior American official said on the second day that Modi has kept ready 12 missiles and might attack and the situation will deteriorate. Pakistan announced to return the pilot on the second day, else it was going to be a “qatal ki raat’,” Modi said.

          “This was said by America, I have nothing to say about this now, I will speak about it when the time will come,” he added.
          Who is this american official i wonder. I remember hearing about it but not who it was attributed to.

          If true i wonder what the targets were going to be

          “Sharad Pawar says I don’t know what will Modi do. If he is unaware of what Modi will do tomorrow, how will Imran Khan know? Modi said.
          That is the idea : )

          ‘Have we kept our arsenal for Diwali’: PM Modi on Pakistan’s nuclear threats | PTI | Apr 21 2019

          Prime minister Narendra Modi on Sunday said India missed an “golden opportunity” to resolve Kashmir dispute during 1971 war when “under global pressure” it released hundreds of Pakistani troops who were in the custody of Indian army. Speaking at an election rally here, Modi said then Congress government signed Shimla agreement (in 1972) “under global pressure” and released over 90,000 prisoners of war (PoW) instead of resolving the Kashmir dispute “in lieu of the PoW.” “Pak troops were in our custody. A big area of Pakistan was also captured by Indian forces during 1971 war but the Congress government lost it on table in Shimla agreement and they were released,” he said.

          “The government crumbled under global pressure and signed the Shimla agreement and the matter was closed. PoW and the capture land were released. That was a golden opportunity to resolve the Kashmir dispute in lieu of the PoW,” he said.

          The prime minister said that it was a trump card in the hands of the government but the chance was missed and the entire country is facing its result today.

          Modi said it was the reason why Congress leaders do not want nationalism to be an issue. The statement from Modi came after Rajasthan chief minister Ashok Gehlot in his recent election rallies highlighted that a new nation (Bangladesh) was created by dividing Pakistan by Indian armed forces during the rule of former prime minister Indira Gandhi in 1971.

          The prime minister also said India no more afraid of nuclear threats from Pakistan .

          “Otherwise, Pakistan used to give nuclear threats. What do we have? Have we kept it for ‘Diwali’ (Warna aay din nuclear button hai, ye kehte the. Hamare paas kya hai. Ye diwali ke liye rakha hai kya)”, Modi commented. He said Indian forces killed terrorists across the border without engaging in a war.

          “This is called a strong government. We have created fear among terrorist,” the PM said.
          Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Apr 19,, 21:05.

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          • Dawood's 14 more assets may go under the hammer

            His entire international network must be seized & closed. After that, we'll see how long he remains a guest of Pak's notorious ISI.
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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            • Modi shouldn’t trivialise nuclear weapons. His Diwali taunt at Pakistan is loose talk | The Print | Apr 23 2019

              This article chronicles Pak's use of the nuclear bluff. What i found interesting is it started as early as 1987. The author suggest because Paks had achieved weaponisation before India.

              since 1987, it has made a habit of using its nukes as a pre-emptive threat. It is true, regrettably, that Pakistan achieved weaponisation of its nukes earlier than India. In spite of conducting Pokhran-1 far back in 1974, India had let its nuclear weapons programme languish. These days, it would be fashionable to blame only the Gandhi dynasty for it. And Indira Gandhi did indeed waste much time and focus because of her Emergency.

              Indira Gandhi’s second coming was consumed in internal strife, especially Assam and Punjab. Rajiv woke up to the threat and asymmetry during Operation Brasstacks. He launched the programme for full weaponisation. I have written in detail the story of how this came to fruition as the baton was passed between eight prime ministers. The first Pakistani nuclear threat, or just the suggestion of it in 1987, made India give up its strategic hesitations.

              The next blackmail from Pakistan came while the gap was still in its favour, in the summer of 1990, and it is a well-documented story. Kashmir was going through its worst insurgency, Benazir Bhutto was threatening to chop Governor Jagmohan into pieces (usko hum jag-jag, mo-mo, han-han kar denge), forces were up with live ammunition, we were writing cover stories on war scenarios, and Pakistani foreign minister Sahabzada Yaqub Khan came visiting.

              Don’t start a war now, he told his counterpart I.K. Gujral, or there will be a fire that consumes our rivers, forests, mountains, everything. Gujral’s response was again as classy and classic as you’d expect from an old-fashioned diplomat: “I don’t know what you are talking about, Yaqub sahib, lekin jin daryaon ka paani aapne piya hai, unka hee humne bhi piya hai. (I don’t know what you are talking about. But remember, we’ve been nurtured on the waters of the same rivers as you.)”

              This was again the language of deterrence. Softly spoken, yet effective. These events have also been documented in detail by American investigative journalist Seymour Hersh, then deputy NSA Robert Gates, and in a remarkable book, Critical Mass: The Dangerous Race for Superweapons by NBC’s Bob Windrem and Ed Burrows, and even my journalistic writings in that period.

              Vajpayee ignored all nuclear talk during Kargil. But, compulsive bullies that they are, the Pakistani military again tried this on the day of the Balakot attacks. Its bigmouth spokesperson Maj. Gen. Asif Ghafoor said a meeting of the National Command Authority was called. And, he added with a smirk, “you know what that means”. I presume somebody knocked him on the head soon after and he, or anybody else, didn’t mention this again.

              Comment


              • Bytedance says TikTok ban in India causing $500,000 daily loss, job risks: Report

                I am for banning all apps from Chinese companies. Buggers can't be choosers.
                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                • Youth held in Punjab for failed J&K attack

                  So the second attack was also a terrorists attack.
                  Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                    Youth held in Punjab for failed J&K attack

                    So the second attack was also a terrorists attack.
                    The attack failed as the terrorists abandoned the vehicle full of explosives just before the blast.
                    I wonder why he abandoned the vehicle. The explosives did go off.

                    Hilal's role in the Banihal attack could, however, not be confirmed. Punjab Police sources indicated that he had been involved in preparing the IEDs.
                    No confirmation. Maybe he knows more and they are using news of his capture to smoke out the real perps
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 24 Apr 19,, 04:13.

                    Comment


                    • All Jaish-e-Mohammad terrorists involved in Pulwama attack killed: Sources

                      Imran Khan comes under Opposition’s attack for acknowledging terrorists used Pakistan soil against Iran

                      Speak the truth inside Pak, come under attack from Pakistanis. Lie inside Pakistan, come under attack from the rest of the world. LMAO!
                      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                        Imran Khan comes under Opposition’s attack for acknowledging terrorists used Pakistan soil against Iran

                        Speak the truth inside Pak, come under attack from Pakistanis. Lie inside Pakistan, come under attack from the rest of the world. LMAO!
                        Hina Rabbani Khar also referred to Khan’s another statement in which he had said Japan and Germany share borders.

                        “You cannot make these stupid statements and expect us to stand behind you,” Khar said.


                        This is the one i heard about : D

                        Comment


                        • US to India: Helping you on Masood Azhar, so end Iran oil imports

                          What? But? There are no terrorists in Pakistan. The PA and IK said so.
                          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                          • Decision time China. What's it to be

                            Pressure rising on China to change stance on Masood Azhar | ET | Apr 24 2019

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                            • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              US to India: Helping you on Masood Azhar, so end Iran oil imports

                              What? But? There are no terrorists in Pakistan. The PA and IK said so.
                              So that's why they've been so helpful. They help us with our terror problem in exchange for cooperation with theirs.

                              American interlocutors have told Delhi that the non-renewal of the waiver will impact not just India, but close allies like Japan and South Korea and NATO ally – Turkey as well. They have also conveyed that the deadline for sanctions to kick-in starts May 2, and it is a “pre-ordained process” under US law.
                              It's not just us, others as well.

                              What do you think ?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                                So that's why they've been so helpful. They help us with our terror problem in exchange for cooperation with theirs.

                                It's not just us, others as well.

                                What do you think ?
                                As far as FP of India is concerned, we should go ahead and stop buying oil from Iran (Dharmendra Pradhan did say we have other sources for oil) and notify Tehran of the same. All of these countries have proxies and are terorrist churners. We need to realise that we cannot do squat by ourselves, and when America has upped the ante, we should side with the Americans to clear these proxies one muslim country at a time. KSA, Pakistan - their time will come too. India just has to remain patient. Oh, and fly an experienced diplomat to Tehran to negotiate about how India still wants the Chabahar project to continue, while trying to score some more points with the US (defence tech, Pak terrorism). The more, the merrier.

                                I still see Paks moaning about Bolton's 'India has the right to self-defence'. But I don't see Paks changing tracks.
                                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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