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Thread: Jaish terrorists attack CRPF convoy in Kashmir, 40 killed

  1. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Prove it they can do it real time and on all 11 carriers. You've made the assertion. Now prove it.

    I know they can't simply by the number of birds they launch each year. They can't even maintain a proper constellation. And I have not touch on the raw computing power needed to do proper analysis for over 100 gigabytes of data per second.
    I didn't suggest the Russians and/or the Chinese would get all eleven. Where did you get that idea? Check back ans see if you've just imagined it. I posted a link that is suggesting that the US will have to keep their ACs off 800 or 900 miles. And if that is correct then the sitting ducks are neutralized in the sort of war we are all imagining between the US aggressor and Russia/China. These huge sitting ducks are useful, and have been useful for many of the US wars against smaller relatively defenseless countries. The beauty of those ducks is though, for people like Oracle who has labelled the US as evil, is that each one that gets deepsixed takes down 5000 of Oracle's evil Americans.

    If I have suggested something that is incorrect then prove it. And I expect more proof than you've furnished so far since I've been on this forum. That's been nothing but frothing at the mouth and blowing smoke and spittle at your monitor.

    I already stated it. It just went right over your head

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  2. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    ^ Sir, I posted that link for our new friend who is on record saying the Russian/Chinese have few (didn't give a number) carriers and the reason is obvious (only she knows what obvious means) and so why does India need carriers. As far as the DF-21D goes, I don't even believe it exists. Like the toy pistol my dad bought me when I was a kid, some people look at it and think it's real. It scares them.
    You and WABS have provided the answer I was searching for on the military mindset, and that's coaxed all the others to ensure you two are truly representative of that ilk. That is:

    The military mind is incapable of considering it's chosen or designated enemy of any capability in the least. And then flying off in a fit of rage at any suggestion that says otherwise. This is your vulnerability.

    I only regret that the board doesn't have any real representation of the rational and semi-important powers that be that are considered important enough to make critical decisions. But in any case, I'm confident in my findings and can suspect with reasonable accuracy that what I've found here from you corporals and senile old hasbeens, is of value in judging the mindset overall.

  3. #588
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    You and WABS have provided the answer I was searching for on the military mindset, and that's coaxed all the others to ensure you two are truly representative of that ilk.
    We call him OOE : )

  4. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Learning does not come cheap. It's their money to do as they wish. I don't want to see us crapping our pants each time China announces its is going to do this or that as is the norm in the media.

    It's quite telling when the American admiral mentioned few posts earlier, now CNO, mentions that during his submariner days they trained intensively for two years just to have the confidence that their torpedoes would hit the designated targets. There is an incredibly steep learning curve involved with becoming a capable blue water navy. This point has been stressed repeatedly over the years by sailors on this board.


    Iran & NK then. Paks too.

    The point is the INF only applies to the soviets & US and is now an anachronism.
    If there's been any sane and rational exchange of ideas on this forum, it's had to have included you. I'll miss the tidbits of information I've gained in talking to you at least. Unfortunately the white noise from the rest of this circle jerk has distracted from what could have been.

  5. #590
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    I didn't suggest the Russians and/or the Chinese would get all eleven. Where did you get that idea? Check back ans see if you've just imagined it. I posted a link that is suggesting that the US will have to keep their ACs off 800 or 900 miles. And if that is correct then the sitting ducks are neutralized in the sort of war we are all imagining between the US aggressor and Russia/China. These huge sitting ducks are useful, and have been useful for many of the US wars against smaller relatively defenseless countries. The beauty of those ducks is though, for people like Oracle who has labelled the US as evil, is that each one that gets deepsixed takes down 5000 of Oracle's evil Americans.

    If I have suggested something that is incorrect then prove it. And I expect more proof than you've furnished so far since I've been on this forum. That's been nothing but frothing at the mouth and blowing smoke and spittle at your monitor.

    Like that!
    Death to infidels! Death to America!
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  6. #591
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Just the title of this NYT article has imran admitting Pakistan uses terrorists : D

    Pakistan Premier: ‘No Use’ for Armed Militias Anymore | NYT | Apr 09 2019

    While he seemed subdued, with puffy circles under his eyes, Mr. Khan also sought to project resolve — particularly about ridding Pakistan of the militants it once tolerated.

    “We have decided, for the future of our country — forget the outside pressure — we will not allow armed militias to operate anymore,’’ he said.

    “The Pakistan Army created them,’’ he said, referring to the 1980s when Pakistan and the United States backed Muslim insurgents in Afghanistan against Soviet forces.

    But, he added, “there is no use for these groups anymore.’’
    Once ? heh. No they are running free right now as we speak


    Mr. Khan promised that this new crackdown would go far deeper than previous ones criticized as cosmetic. The government, for instance, plans to send 200,000 teachers to religious schools across the country to teach secular subjects like English and math. The intention, Mr. Khan’s aides said, was to deradicalize students.

    We can’t afford to be blacklisted,’’ he said on Tuesday.

    With barely enough foreign reserves to cover the country’s monthly import bills, Mr. Khan’s government knows it needs a large bailout from the International Monetary Fund, but those often come with painful austerity conditions. His finance team has been reluctant to turn to the I.M.F. but now promises that a deal will be announced in the coming weeks.

    On the streets, discontent is rising. People grumble about rising prices. Mr. Khan’s government is trying to slow down demand to keep the trade deficit from growing even bigger.

    But his government’s decisions to raise levies on fuel and collect more taxes from ordinary Pakistanis, even if necessary for the economy’s long-term health, have made people even angrier. Economic growth is forecast to slow further, leading to even more joblessness.
    That remains to be seen.

  7. #592
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    You think US considers Pak a threat? Why?

    Iran & NK? If US goes to war, you think these countries have any chance? I don't think so. Maybe I'm not following you here.
    Those missiles are a threat to US friends & allies.

    The Israelis were absolutely livid that Iran's missile program was not included in Obama's deal

    INF applies to the Russians, yes, but scrapping it has reasons for the Chinese to worry more. Putin is not a fool, nor is Xi, but Russia is not building a blue water navy, Putin would absolutely love to sit back and see the Chinese go down.
    So too for those other countries i mentioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    I didn't suggest the Russians and/or the Chinese would get all eleven. Where did you get that idea? Check back ans see if you've just imagined it.
    Because of your idiotic suggestion that Russian satellites can track aircraft carriers. Let me paint you a picture. Which carrier is going to hit you? The one you ain't watching. How do the Americans know which carrier ain't being watched. They know all the orbital paths of all Russian satellites as do the Russians know the American ones. Only thing is the Americans have a complete constellation. The Russians do not. Yes, the military mindset. The military mindset is telling you that you don't know shit and stop pretending that you do.

    There are two main axioms of war. Find the enemy. Kill the enemy. Your article points to killing the enemy without answering how to find the enemy. I flat out point to you that this point has not been addressed and you pull this shit of Russian satellites out of your ass. Let me also paint you another picture. An aircraft carrier is 300-400 meters long. There is 162 million square kms of ocean. When the carrier leaves port when there are no Russian satellites overhead, where are you going to start looking?

    As far as Russian radars and weapons lock is concerned. Again, way over your head. I said radar burn through. You can be certain the Americans would be throwing up a lot of jamming. To get a proper return from the jamming clutter, you need electrical power. Lots of it. BACKFIRE bombers have the size and fuel to generate such power. Tiny missile warheads payloads do not.

    Again, all of this points to your article DID NOT address the first axiom of war, Finding The Enemy.

    Yes, the military mindset. The military mindset is saying you're pulling bollocks out of your ass and telling us it's roses when we can tell it stinks to high heavens.

  9. #594
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    No evidence of Pakistan dismantling terror infrastructure, says ex-envoy Haqqani

    Two militants JeM killed in Shopian gunfight

    Will not allow revival of terrorism in Jammu region: Army

    Btw, Pak FM Asad Umar wants India out of the Asia-Pacific body of FATF. He says India is rigging the results. Yeah, Pakistan sponsors terrorism, and India is rigging results. What a joke.
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  10. #595
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    Qureshi calls rumours about Israeli pilot in Pakistan's custody baseless

    Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi has said on Thursday that Pakistan had captured only one Indian pilot, and speculations in the media about the capture of an Israeli pilot are totally baseless.
    First they said they had 3 IAF pilots, then changed the figures to 2 IAF pilots. Now as reality have set in, they have changed the figure to 1. Funny, these jokers.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  11. #596
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    "Islamabad's close ties with Beijing were invoked to ensure that Azhar's designation as a terrorist by the United Nations was blocked by China at Pakistan's behest," he said, adding that such moves are consistent with Islamabad's policies of the last 30 years.
    FATF should take note of this charade at the UN. Impression is unless the UN designates him a terrorist then Pakistan can get away with nothing.

    The former ambassador said that the desire to reassure the world once again that Pakistan wants to act against terrorist groups is motivated by economic considerations.
    Pretty much nailed it

    Btw, Pak FM Asad Umar wants India out of the Asia-Pacific body of FATF. He says India is rigging the results. Yeah, Pakistan sponsors terrorism, and India is rigging results. What a joke.
    It is, since Pakistan is in the spotlight now as a result of its own actions. Has it clamped down or not. Is it following what was agreed to. What he does not like is more powers around the world are agreeing with India on this position. This is for domestic consumption. Let's stick the blame for all internal problems on India.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Apr 19, at 14:35.

  12. #597
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Ah! This is from Pak nuclear physicist Pervez Hoodbhoy. A lot of Pakistanis, and an even greater number of Indians are fans of his writing, his views. His fan base thinks Hoodbhoy is moderate in his views, knows much about Indo-Pak hostility etc etc etc. I present the Pakistani thinking below. Please read each word and line carefully. I am not going to debate point by point where Hoodbhoy is wrong, it's obvious and as we progress on the article we know whose tune he's singing. I just want to highlight the misconception of Hoodbhoy being an intellectual, educated and moderate Pakistani.

    F-16 or JF-17 – which was it?

    TO this touchy question — touchy for political and legal reasons — the answer is that it scarcely matters. Either aircraft, the US supplied F-16 or the Chinese origin JF-17, was equally capable of downing the Soviet era Mig-21 Bison piloted by Wing Commander Abhinandan Varathaman. The French supplied Mirage-V, of which Pakistan has plenty, could have done this too. These days the air platform matters relatively little; in the Bison case one set of avionics and air-to-air missiles had clearly worked as intended. Hence Pakistan ended with a 1-0 kill in its favour, albeit one that India denies.

    Was pilot skill important? In this electronic age this is secondary but might still have mattered. Having flown more sorties than Indians, Pakistani pilots are better trained. Indeed, there was massive use of fighter aircraft for ground support during the Zarb-i-Azb operation, and earlier against Baloch separatists. These were ideal for pilot training since there was little danger of being shot down.

    Yet it is easily possible to make too much of the Bison’s downing. Knowing some key facts about modern air combat can help one arrive at a more balanced view. This makes possible a more clinical management of Indian and Pakistani testosterone levels which, after India’s botched Balakot attack, had shot sky high on both sides. Even reasonable Pakistani columnists — who generally tend to keep an even keel — had briefly tipped over. One likened the post-Balakot aerial skirmish to the Battle of Britain.

    Reflecting upon modern air combat here has a second purpose: to raise a warning flag. People everywhere tend to live in the past and most appear unaware that modern weaponry has changed the nature of war itself. They still search for heroes when, in fact, the role of valour is well on its way out. Wars of the future, particularly aerial wars, will be entirely hero-less and fundamentally technology driven.

    Nobody could have anticipated this at the beginning of aerial warfare in around 1914. During the early months of the First World War, German and British pilots would simply wave to each other while carrying out reconnaissance missions across enemy lines. Then some started carrying bricks to throw at the plane flying just below. Grenades followed, graduating to pistols and revolvers. By the war’s end fighter planes like the Sopwith Camel and Fokker D-VII were equipped with machine guns and could zip along at nearly 180 kilometres per hour — then a huge speed!

    Over the following decades — and particularly during the Second World War — aircraft manoeuvred to shoot each other out of the sky. Their dogfights created grand spectacles for those on the ground. Fighter aces, defined as those with 5+ kills, became known for their derring-do and were worshipped by publics everywhere.

    As an exuberant 14-year old, I too had plastered my room with pictures of the Red Baron (Manfred von Richtofen), Douglas Bader (of Battle of Britain fame) and, of course, my ace hero M.M. Alam who brought down five Indian Hawker Hunters in just one sortie during the 1965 war. Almost as awesome was ‘8-Pass Charlie’, a Pakistani B-58 pilot so nicknamed by an Indian fighter pilot who described him as “a cool dude and a professional of the highest order”. 8-Pass Charlie routinely made eight passes over Adampur air base in Indian Punjab, each time dropping his bombs after carefully choosing his target.

    That age of grudging admiration for the enemy’s valour ultimately closed as warfare became increasingly depersonalised. Eye-to-eye air combat is unimaginable today! In today’s jargon, fighter aircraft are designed to primarily engage in BVR (Beyond Visual Range) mode. In fact, all reasonably advanced fighters — US, Russian, Chinese, or French — can detect an enemy using BVR Doppler radar and then deploy air-to-air missiles from as far as 50-100 km. This means having the supporting infrastructure of radars, data-links, self-defence jammers, and helmet-mounted sights.

    Once a missile’s radar locks onto its target, the options for that unfortunate pilot are only a few. He could try a fast climb and hope to exhaust the missile’s kinetic energy, or turn tightly and risk high G’s with subsequent blackout. But the more capable a missile, the smaller his chances of survival.

    Fifth generation aircraft — such as the F-35 stealth fighter — have tilted an already tilted playing field much further. In Atlantic war exercises these fighters have been repeatedly tested against the kind of third- and fourth-generation fighters like those currently in the Pakistani and Indian air fleets. While kill ratios are secret, they are sometimes leaked. Assuming the leaks are correct, in some hypothetical war just two squadrons of American F-35s could knock down the combined might of the PAF and IAF fleets fighting together for the loss of just one F-35 — or perhaps none.

    That’s here and now, not some hypothetical future! But what lies in decades hence? Most probably things will be unrecognisably different from the present. One can guess that lasers or heavy ion beams will become powerful enough to instantly zap planes out of the sky. Fighter aircraft — if they then still exist — will be flown by robots situationally informed by deep neural nets. The human pilot, who can sustain only so many G’s and whose responses are slow and bumbling, will become redundant.

    Back in the days of face-to-face fighting, it made sense to talk of courage and gallantry. But technology is rapidly dispensing with the need to walk through the trenches or to smell the blood. Future battles will be fought by button pushers using their silicon chips against the adversary’s silicon chips. There can be no heroes and martyrs — just victims.

    Nevertheless even young people remain locked into old modes of thinking. India’s Balakot adventure, followed by an episode of aerial dogfighting, has led to today’s astonishing situation where, on either side of the border, most people are soundly convinced that their side won and the other was ‘taught a lesson’. Heroic actions on one’s own side are still being sought and extolled. Gullible masses are readily falling for their respective national narrative; surely something has gone dreadfully wrong. Particularly between nuclear rivals, nationalism and war are now lethal anachronisms.
    Botched Balakote strike? Really?
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  13. #598
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    ^
    Gullible masses are readily falling for their respective national narrative; surely something has gone dreadfully wrong.
    Isn't he also doing the same : )

  14. #599
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

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    Amarinder protests Canada dropping references to Sikh extremism from terrorism report

    Countries that doesn't share India's concern w.r.t terrorism, ties should be rescinded as far as FP goes.
    Last edited by Oracle; 15 Apr 19, at 02:13.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

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