Jaish terrorists attack CRPF convoy in Kashmir, 40 killed

[Oracle]

J&K administration withdraws security of separatist leaders

Should have done this in the 90s.

[Double Edge]

Told you earlier the Pakistan Army doesn't care. Then you didn't care. :D


They don't even need bailouts. They select a puppet and throw him around begging for alms, but, that money goes in servicing circular debts and running the facade of a civilian government. The PA generate enough cash inside Pakistan to run the country according to their jihadi whims. Then there is narcotics they peddle. Fake currencies they smuggle. Kidnappings and ransom. Terrorism itself is a big money churner for the PA. Selling of jihadi support to conflict zones around the world. Loaning of the shalwar kameez army to be the bodyguards of KSA princelings.

I remember the Colonel posting an article in which a PA major/brigadier/something was in charge of Benazir's return to Pak, and bleh and bleh, and how he talks if things could start all over again, meaning nukes be used against India courtesy seeing the poverty in Pakistan. He then also says that there are people with this thinking in the PA. What do one call this kind of people? This is not being irrational. This is Allah's way. The term is suicidal. If the Americans weren't watching over their asses, they would have kept their nukes mated, and used it on us for flimsy reasons, like say - India not allowing abduls to work in Bollywood, or not granting visas for terminally ill children born of first cousin marriages.

Am talking about whether they are confident of not entering the black list regardless of actions in Afghanistan & Kashmir.

That will crimp their economy big time. Unless they think China can save them.

Getting into the grey list isn't a big deal. China allowed it in exchange for a top position in the group.

This means this year or next that China can then block any actions taken against Pakistan like happens at the UNSC ?

If that is the case then the PA does not need to care.

[Oracle]

Am talking about whether they are confident of not entering the black list regardless of actions in Afghanistan & Kashmir.

That will crimp their economy big time. Unless they think China can save them.

Getting into the grey list isn't a big deal. China allowed it in exchange for a top position in the group.

This means this year or next that China can then block any actions taken against Pakistan like happens at the UNSC ?

If that is the case then the PA does not need to care.

I said why Pak doesn't care, and I gave the reason financially. That PakArmy doesn't have to depend on any country for their survival. China saving their ass is a done deal, it's not a probability anymore. But, the sooner we understand that Pakistan doesn't need any money, we'll be making a start, thinking like them. Oh, and Pak doesn't care either way. The common citizens will suffer. Who cares? The PA is killing its own citizens. Till the time whisky flows from the barrels in Rawalpindi and some goats are butchered everyday making kebabs on which the Jihadi Generals gorge, everything remains intact, hunky-dory in Pakistan.

I feel sorry for the good people of Pak, I believe atleast, what?, 50% to be good, who want no animosity with India, want cross border trade, want to travel to India for tourism and medical facilities. Huh!

From time to time, one would see articles appearing in Pak media about how if tensions reduce, South Asia can replicate the EU, but India doesn't want peace. That Imran Khan and the Pak military are on the same page, and if India takes 1 step, Pak will take 2 steps. Well, I don't know about 2 steps, but the Pak Army makes sure Pakistani terrorists take millions of steps infiltrating into Kashmir, then spread violence and mayhem.

Some on our side want the Indus water treaty to be revoked. Say what? Pak doesn't utilize their share of downstream water, and it flows to the sea. What effect will it have on Pak? Nothing. MFN status revoked? Big deal. As I said umpteenth times before, the PA doesn't care.

[Oracle]

The Chinese are practical people. They ain't nobody's friend. In real-politik they have never come to Pak's aid. What concessions are they looking for, to give up support for Masood Azhar?

#1. No impediment, or blocking of Huawei to compete for 5G roll out in India?
#2. India tones down its criticism of the CPEC, and therefore the OBOR?
#3. Border land swap, giving up on Bhutan as a protectorate?

While #3 is impossible. #1 & #2 seems viable. Any other points?

[Double Edge]

The Chinese are practical people. They ain't nobody's friend. In real-politik they have never come to Pak's aid. What concessions are they looking for, to give up support for Masood Azhar?

#1. No impediment, or blocking of Huawei to compete for 5G roll out in India?
#2. India tones down its criticism of the CPEC, and therefore the OBOR?
#3. Border land swap, giving up on Bhutan as a protectorate?

While #3 is impossible. #1 & #2 seems viable. Any other points?

Am trying to figure out what value we got after Hafiz Saeed got designated as a terrorist ? Chinese cooperated then without a kings ransom

As a result LeT hasn't been unable to mount any operations in India since 26-11 ?

Therefore there is huge value in getting Masod Azhar designated likewise as it effectively prevents JeM operating in India.

if the Chinese want a deal we just have to run a larger deficit with them for a few years.

They have around $7bn investments in India vs close to $20bn in Pakistan. That's what we are competing with.

[Oracle]

Pulwama attack not handiwork of single man, says former RAW chief

Interesting. I like Sood.

Pulwama attack: Suicide bomber arrived from bylane near Latoo mode of Awantipora

We know it, even before anybody said it. It's common sense.

Iran summons Pakistan envoy over suicide bombing

Not going to stop terrorism in Iranian soil. Stop the nuke program, have a truce with US, and then think of tackling Pakistan.

Traders body calls for nationwide market bandh on Monday

Pressure is on China now. Boycott of Chinese goods should have been for a year atleast. This would have broken Chinese will to support its rouge ally, Pakistan.

Pulwama terror attack: CRPF issues advisory against fake photos of martyrs

Nutcase right-wing crowd at work. These idiots should be in jail. But, we have a right-wing government, so they remain free.

Pakistan claims to fulfilling sanctions obligations against JeM

Yeah right!

View: India should counter Pakistan through a full spectrum of relentless actions

Hmmm...

View: US' Afghanistan pull out could be driving up terror in Kashmir

From a patriot and a decorated Lt. General.

[Double Edge]

I said why Pak doesn't care, and I gave the reason financially. That PakArmy doesn't have to depend on any country for their survival. China saving their ass is a done deal, it's not a probability anymore. But, the sooner we understand that Pakistan doesn't need any money, we'll be making a start, thinking like them. Oh, and Pak doesn't care either way. The common citizens will suffer. Who cares? The PA is killing its own citizens. Till the time whisky flows from the barrels in Rawalpindi and some goats are butchered everyday making kebabs on which the Jihadi Generals gorge, everything remains intact, hunky-dory in Pakistan.

I feel sorry for the good people of Pak, I believe atleast, what?, 50% to be good, who want no animosity with India, want cross border trade, want to travel to India for tourism and medical facilities. Huh!

From time to time, one would see articles appearing in Pak media about how if tensions reduce, South Asia can replicate the EU, but India doesn't want peace. That Imran Khan and the Pak military are on the same page, and if India takes 1 step, Pak will take 2 steps. Well, I don't know about 2 steps, but the Pak Army makes sure Pakistani terrorists take millions of steps infiltrating into Kashmir, then spread violence and mayhem.

Some on our side want the Indus water treaty to be revoked. Say what? Pak doesn't utilize their share of downstream water, and it flows to the sea. What effect will it have on Pak? Nothing. MFN status revoked? Big deal. As I said umpteenth times before, the PA doesn't care.

See, i'm not so sure China can save their ass because there are 15 votes and there is no veto at the FATF as i understand it.

The only time China matters is when votes are close.

The Saudis are vulnerable right now to American pressure so they're not a factor.

Turkey can be the sole supporter like last time, didn't make a difference.

Getting into the blacklist will cause serious financial problems in Pakistan.

How long do you think the PA can continue to fund operations against us in such a case. We could always outbid them from a position of strength.

The question is how likely are we to get them into the blacklist and how long can we keep them there.

Navjot's argument is going to come up, why should a whole country pay the price for the actions of a few.

We need arguments to persuade the world why they should

As for who is good i heard this recently, 5% of people are bad. Half of them are either dead or in jail. 20% are good. The rest are all fence sitters.

We don't have to revoke the Indus water treaty just make use of what is accorded to us in that treaty. To date we've not done so as the Paks kept putting up objections for the slightest of construction work saying we were holding water back. This is false.

[Oracle]

Am trying to figure out what value we got after Hafiz Saeed got designated as a terrorist ? Chinese cooperated then without a kings ransom

As a result LeT hasn't been unable to mount any operations in India since 26-11.

Therefore there is huge value in getting Masod Azhar designated likewise as it effectively prevents them operating in India.

if the Chinese want a deal we just have to run a larger deficit with them for a few years.

They have around $7bn investments in India vs close to $20bn in Pakistan. That's what we are competing with.

We got nothing. And it's not why you think it is.

The Pakistan Army is trying to mainstream LeT as a political party after the bans to shield them, but still uses them in conflicts. It gives the PA divergence to claim, 'Oh! but LeT is a political party, and any action against a political party has to be within the constitution of Pak'. This skirts bans from global bodies, which Pak anyway doesn't care much about. Then, the ISI put the onus of destabilising Kashmir on Jaish. This work comprises of Chinese brains and Pak actions. When Masood is proscribed, they'd use HM. After HM, they'd create some other terrorist organisation.

[Double Edge]

We got nothing. And it's not why you think it is.

The Pakistan Army is trying to mainstream LeT as a political party after the bans to shield them, but still uses them in conflicts. It gives the PA divergence to claim, 'Oh! but LeT is a political party, and any action against a political party has to be within the constitution of Pak'. This skirts bans from global bodies, which Pak anyway doesn't care much about. Then, the ISI put the onus of destabilising Kashmir on Jaish. This work comprises of Chinese brains and Pak actions. When Masood is proscribed, they'd use HM. After HM, they'd create some other terrorist organisation.

If it is so futile as you say then why is it important to put Azhar on the terrorist list in the first place ?

Why do you want China to surrender support for him

[Oracle]

If it is so futile as you say then why is it important to put Azhar on the terrorist list in the first place ?

Why do you want China to surrender support for him

If China drops support, then it is nothing more but a moral victory for India. It changes nothing, it doesn't bring about any change in Paks behavior. And an indirect reference goes to Pak that the Chinese can change their Pro-Pak stance to Pro-India anytime it suits them. That the Chinese cannot be trusted. Trust this to be effective more so in Rawalpindi. I have seen some Pak TV shows where retired Generals have talked about China not coming to Paks rescue in previous wars. The Paks have this grudge.

If China doesn't, then it's a another moral victory for India, the US and UK. It's goes like this - 'look, here we have the Chinese, a member of P5, that puts 2.5 million of its innocent muslim Uighur people in concentration camps, but doesn't drop support for the leader of a proscribed terrorist entity'.

We use Masood Azhar to slamdunk the Chinese, and terrorism to isolate the Pakistanis. That's all. The other feeling I have is through the use of terrorism, Pak is playing into the Indian trap, where one day the whole world community will shudder with the thought of Paks nukes (even now a lot of countries fear pak nukes falling in the hands of terrorists) and impose costs so severe on the Paks, that they will have no other option but to give those up.

[Oracle]

See, i'm not so sure China can save their ass because there are 15 votes and there is no veto at the FATF as i understand it.

The only time China matters is when votes are close.

The Saudis are vulnerable right now to American pressure so they're not a factor.

Turkey can be the sole supporter like last time, didn't make a difference.

Getting into the blacklist will cause serious financial problems in Pakistan.

How long do you think the PA can continue to fund operations against us in such a case. We could always outbid them from a position of strength.

The question is how likely are we to get them into the blacklist and how long can we keep them there.

Navjot's argument is going to come up, why should a whole country pay the price for the actions of a few.

We need arguments to persuade the world why they should

As for who is good i heard this recently, 5% of people are bad. Half of them are either dead or in jail. 20% are good. The rest are all fence sitters.

We don't have to revoke the Indus water treaty just make use of what is accorded to us in that treaty. To date we've not done so as the Paks kept putting up objections for the slightest of construction work saying we were holding water back. This is false.

FATF or no FATF doesn't matter. The Pak Army generate enough money to keep their forces going. Pak funded terrorists don't use jets to bomb India; they come with guns, ammunitions, grenades and IEDs. All those are made in Pak ordnance factories. It's cheap and the population is expendable.

Sanctions will only work if the US is serious, and sanctions are put in place for a period of say 8-10 years by the world community. Then we can collaborate on what the world community can give Pak, to give up its nukes. I'm not so sure 8-10 years is a good time-period either, I was assuming children are dying in Pak from lack of healthcare facilities as well as food, but knowing the monster that Pak Army is, this time-period might get extended. But before that, we'd have another Bangladesh in the making in Balochistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Gilgit Baltistan, assuming the world can save the last of the remaining Balochis and Pushtuns, to be put up in a Museum somewhere.

[Oracle]

Fresh this morning: India needs a long-term policy that makes export of terror by Pakistan costly

[Double Edge]

If China drops support, then it is nothing more but a moral victory for India. It changes nothing, it doesn't bring about any change in Paks behavior. And an indirect reference goes to Pak that the Chinese can change their Pro-Pak stance to Pro-India anytime it suits them. That the Chinese cannot be trusted. Trust this to be effective more so in Rawalpindi. I have seen some Pak TV shows where retired Generals have talked about China not coming to Paks rescue in previous wars. The Paks have this grudge.

If China doesn't, then it's a another moral victory for India, the US and UK. It's goes like this - 'look, here we have the Chinese, a member of P5, that puts 2.5 million of its innocent muslim Uighur people in concentration camps, but doesn't drop support for the leader of a proscribed terrorist entity'.

We use Masood Azhar to slamdunk the Chinese, and terrorism to isolate the Pakistanis. That's all. The other feeling I have is through the use of terrorism, Pak is playing into the Indian trap, where one day the whole world community will shudder with the thought of Paks nukes (even now a lot of countries fear pak nukes falling in the hands of terrorists) and impose costs so severe on the Paks, that they will have no other option but to give those up.

Who cares for moral victories ? i was operating under the assumption that if this org gets designated then the Paks have to rein them in. I was looking for evidence that LeT stops attacking us after they got designated. No such luck

https://www.counterextremism.com/thr...iolent_history

May 2005: The U.N. Security Council listed “Lashkar-e-Taiba” as a “Banned Foreign Terrorist Organization” under U.N. Security Council Resolution 1267

December 10, 2008: The U.N. Security Council added “Hafiz Muhammad Saeed” to its al-Qaeda sanctions list under U.N. Security Council Resolution 1267

You'd think no more attacks from LeT post 2008? NO!

February 13, 2010: LeT kills nine in the bombing of a German bakery in Pune, India.

May 27, 2011: LeT attacks a home in Kupwara, India, killing two.

April 18, 2013: Two LeT militants attack a village in Jammu and Kashmir. Indian forces kill one of the militants, Shabir Ahmad Sheikh, also known as “Sufiyan.”

May 23, 2014: Two gunmen open fire on the Indian Consulate in Herat, Afghanistan. The attack is linked to LeT.

August 5, 2015: Two LeT militants attack an Indian military convoy in Udhampur, Jammu and Kashmir, killing two Indian soldiers. One of the LeT militants, Mohammad Naved, is captured by nearby villagers and subsequently interrogated by Indian officials. Naved confirms that he is from Pakistan and was trained by LeT there. The incident leads to a search for Abu Qasim, the alleged “mastermind” behind the attack

I really don't think chasing the Chinese for Azhar is worth the hassle.

The Chinese are practical people. They ain't nobody's friend. In real-politik they have never come to Pak's aid. What concessions are they looking for, to give up support for Masood Azhar?

#1. No impediment, or blocking of Huawei to compete for 5G roll out in India?
#2. India tones down its criticism of the CPEC, and therefore the OBOR?
#3. Border land swap, giving up on Bhutan as a protectorate?

While #3 is impossible. #1 & #2 seems viable. Any other points?

Forget about it.

Why the heck does the media make such a big deal over this !!!

[Oracle]

Who cares for moral victories ? i was operating under the assumption that if this org gets designated then the Paks have to rein them in. I was looking for evidence that LeT stops attacking us after they got designated. No such luck

https://www.counterextremism.com/thr...iolent_history



You'd think no more attacks from LeT post 2008? NO!



I really don't think chasing the Chinese for Azhar is worth the hassle.



Forget about it.

Why the heck does the media make such a big deal over this !!!

Hehehehehehehehe!!!!!

[667medic]

People are hopping mad for now and then it will be business as usual just like 2008, 1998, 2001 and other incidents. Really pity the men joining defense forces, either they are really desperate to earn a living or is it their sense of patriotism. Doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different outcome is stupidity. But then considering the lack of unanimity in opinion as far as what's to be done in Kashmir means that the government will continue to do what it's always been doing. The only solution for Kashmir is to do what Chinese did in Xinjiang and Tibet. That or get rid of them by giving them what they want....