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Thread: Jaish terrorists attack CRPF convoy in Kashmir, 40 killed

  1. #571
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    HMS Pinafore:

    Now landsmen all, whoever you may be,
    If you want to rise to the top of the tree,
    If your soul isn't fettered to an office stool,
    Be careful to be guided by this golden rule.
    Chorus.
    Be careful to be guided by this golden rule.

    Stick close to your desks and never go to sea,
    And you all may be rulers of the Queen's Navee!

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    ^ Also a technological constraint (Chinese) & financial+technological one (Russians). There is no doctrine of the sane mind which says, okay I have the money for 100 carriers, but I'll build just 1. Doctrines change with capability.
    Where was the resource crunch during the soviet era ? i think its more doctrinal. The Chinese have inherited some of these ideas but may modify them later.

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    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...aircraft-25846

    At the same time, the Second Artillery Corps leveraged its expertise in long-range rockets to create the DF-21D antiship ballistic missile. The DF-21 has obvious applications against large capital ships, such as aircraft carriers, and in a future crisis could force the U.S. Navy to operate eight to nine hundred miles off Taiwan and the rest of the so-called “First Island Chain.”
    In reference to the point being made here, does that negate the usefulness of American AC's to a large extent? Suggesting that if they get to within a couple of hundred, three hundred miles, they become sitting ducks?
    Last edited by montgomery; 11 Apr 19, at 20:43.

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...aircraft-25846



    In reference to the point being made here, does that negate the usefulness of American AC's to a large extent? Suggesting that if they get to within a couple of hundred, three hundred miles, they become sitting ducks?
    I remembered now, it was from an article over at WOTR, loads of links in there. The Russian & Chinese idea is A2D, anti-access, area denial.

    So if the aircraft carrier get's close its toast ? not so simple

    Demystifing the A2/AD Buzz | WOTR | Jan 04 2017

    References Admiral John Richardson's talks & articles. Killer line for me is when he says too often the word 'denial' from A2A/D is taken as a fait accompli when it is at best an aspiration.

    There's a paper linked that debunks the widespread assumption that Chinese advances in A2/AD will likely turn the Asia-Pacific into a “no-go zone” for the U.S. military, therefore elevating China to a regional hegemon of sorts. The authors do acknowledge that A2/AD is giving air and maritime defenders increasing strategic advantages, and it is surely complicating U.S. military access to and movement within China’s immediate vicinity. However, they insist that those advantages are strongest over controlled landmasses and weaken over distance. As a result, as China and the United States (and its allies) deploy countervailing A2/AD capabilities, the current U.S. command of the East Asian commons will give way not to Chinese hegemony, but to a more differentiated pattern of control. This will likely result in a U.S. sphere of influence around allied landmasses, a Chinese sphere of influence over the Chinese mainland, and a contested battlespace covering much of the South and East China Seas, where neither power enjoys wartime freedom of surface or air maneuver.

    Can America Crush Russia's A2/AD 'Bubbles'? | National Interest | Jun 29 2016
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Apr 19, at 03:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    Thanks for your reply on this interesting topic. My non-military opinion is that Russia has the coordinates of every American AC afloat to within 2 meters, or however accurate their sat technology is, as compared to America's GPS. Whether either system would continue to be operable in a world war is a question on which you may want to comment. Or more accurately, to say that they do for all American AC's that are close enough to pose the threat that AC's pose Russia. Would that be, say, a couple of hundred miles from Russia or Moscow?
    Prove it they can do it real time and on all 11 carriers. You've made the assertion. Now prove it.

    I know they can't simply by the number of birds they launch each year. They can't even maintain a proper constellation. And I have not touch on the raw computing power needed to do proper analysis for over 100 gigabytes of data per second.

    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    And I'll also ask you for your opinion on Russia's capability as regards radar capability as it relates to your opinions on US radar capability?
    I already stated it. It just went right over your head

    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    Was that 'Pirates' or was it 'Pinafore'?
    MEN OF HARLECH.

    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    It's not for me to post a lot of argument on counter-opinions to the US opinion or political spin and so I won't. And of course I haven't touted anything. I posted a link which contained an opinion.
    These are Russian published technical specs to meet the former INF Treaty requirements. They are not an opinion. They are specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    I wouldn't agree on 'zero'.
    100% zero. Anything more than that would be a violation of the NPT. The Indians can install their own tech to a degree but they are absolutely not allow to take anything out. All maintenance are to be done by Russian crews as per the Lease Agreements.

    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    Not for me here on this thread but perhaps elsewhere later?
    Whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    I think I've already answered that comment from you but in case I haven't: My objective is not in supporting Russian or Chinese crime bosses, it's in condemning all *crime bosses.
    And you have NOT condemn Putin's crimes (Chechnya) and Xi's crimes (Tibet) and praised both in saving Venezuela's Maduro from the majority of the Venezuelan population who wants Maduro out.

    Yeah, you've been really condemning ALL

    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    I choose to take none of the above mentioned three.
    Newsflash. You're living under the American one. Our economy exists purely on the US's back. China does not even come close to taking the American's place.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 12 Apr 19, at 00:29.

  6. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Where was the resource crunch during the soviet era ? i think its more doctrinal. The Chinese have inherited some of these ideas but may modify them later.
    I think you are right about shore defense. However, from reports, I know the Chinese are building 6 (4 nuclear powered ones, 2 conventionally fueled). So, China has actively started modifying their doctrine.

    If China's 'carrier killer' missiles work, it's making one of the dumbest moves of the century

    Why do I have a feeling that the US scrapped the INF treaty because of the Chinese. US has been exercising AA/AD battle concepts for over a decade now. I don't understand how Russian/Chinese AA/AD will be effective in stopping the USN.

    Coming back to Pakistan now. Pakistan needs more proof

    Meanwhile, the spokesperson told reporters that Pakistan handed over a further set of questions to India regarding the Pulwama attack. The questionnaire was handed over to the Indian deputy high commissioner, who was called in to the foreign office on Thursday.

    Islamabad recently informed India that based on its “preliminary findings” no linkages had so far been established between the Pulwama attack and Pakistan. The foreign office, however, said that Pakistan was willing to cooperate with India if it had any “actionable evidence”.

    Responding to a question, the spokesperson reiterated that Pakistan had “credible intelligence” regarding the imminent threat as mentioned by Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi. “Any threat to Pakistan would beget a befitting reply. I would like to reiterate that Pakistan, however, believes in peace and dialogue and not war,” he added.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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    I remind everyone that there has NOT been one single live test of any AshBM on any moving target. There has been ONE target freighter designated for the test. That test never occured.

    Although there are those who believes the missiles are operational as planned, I am not one of them. It galls me that there are "civilian consultants" who gets paid to say a weapon that was never been tested works as intended.

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    ^ Sir, I posted that link for our new friend who is on record saying the Russian/Chinese have few (didn't give a number) carriers and the reason is obvious (only she knows what obvious means) and so why does India need carriers. As far as the DF-21D goes, I don't even believe it exists. Like the toy pistol my dad bought me when I was a kid, some people look at it and think it's real. It scares them.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    I think you are right about shore defense. However, from reports, I know the Chinese are building 6 (4 nuclear powered ones, 2 conventionally fueled). So, China has actively started modifying their doctrine.

    If China's 'carrier killer' missiles work, it's making one of the dumbest moves of the century
    So you see how they contradict themselves. Let's call this one another learning exercise for China : D

    If it takes them twenty years to graduate a squadron of pilots i'm not holding my breath on China's aircraft carrier prowess. I think the Japanese at the dawn of WW2 were more potent.

    Why do I have a feeling that the US scrapped the INF treaty because of the Chinese. US has been exercising AA/AD battle concepts for over a decade now. I don't understand how Russian/Chinese AA/AD will be effective in stopping the USN.
    Not only China but numerous other countries including India built missiles and the Americans saw no point in restricting themselves.

    Coming back to Pakistan now. Pakistan needs more proof
    this is the part that they want to convey

    Responding to a question, the spokesperson reiterated that Pakistan had “credible intelligence” regarding the imminent threat as mentioned by Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi. “Any threat to Pakistan would beget a befitting reply. I would like to reiterate that Pakistan, however, believes in peace and dialogue and not war,” he added.
    So if they think India is preparing to attack them then they will attack first is that it ? lol

    Escalation begins with the terrorist attack itself not with India's reaction. And India will unilaterally attack camps or any terrorist entity that it perceives will imminently target India.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Apr 19, at 14:28.

  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    So you see how they contradict themselves. Let's call this one another learning exercise for China : D

    If it takes them twenty years to graduate a squadron of pilots i'm not holding my breath on China's aircraft carrier prowess. I think the Japanese at the dawn of WW2 were more potent.
    So why waste 10s of billions of USD on failed or unnecessary projects? Ghost towns, DF-21D, if I scour the internet I'll get more than 10 such projects. Some rapid transportation project too, looked cool though, but scrapped. I understand that R&D means a lot of trial and error, some wasted money, but I just don't see the point in developing useless products. Jobs for locals?

    Another thing is noises coming out from China since the last decade is of warnings, threatenings. It's kid like behaviour. They have made their intentions clear, they will fight the US someday in the future. But, have they figured out winning in their calculation? They seriously can't expect a win using a pistol in an artillery duel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Not only China but numerous other countries including India built missiles and the Americans saw no point in restricting themselves.
    America doesn't see India as a threat. Not immediate, not in another 20 years. India needs America more.

    this is the part that they want to convey

    So if they think India is preparing to attack them then they will attack first is that it ? lol

    Escalation begins with the terrorist attack itself not with India's reaction. And India will unilaterally attack camps or any terrorist entity that it perceives will imminently target India.
    I don't lose sleep what that terrorist hellhole says nowadays. I just glance over their pearls of 'bakra' droppings.










    *Bakra = male goat = buck. Which reminds me, new years is here. It's a feast on monday. :D
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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Hardip seems confident of China relenting on Masood Azhar. If nothing happens in the 1267 committee then Apr 23, the Americans bring out the resolution at the UNSC and China can show the world its reasons why it thinks Masood Azhar should not be designated a terrorist. It's quite an achievement for India that 4 out of 5 P5 members agree as well as 14 out of 15 in the UNSC. The world is fed up with China's foot dragging here. The topic has come up four times already.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    So why waste 10s of billions of USD on failed or unnecessary projects? Ghost towns, DF-21D, if I scour the internet I'll get more than 10 such projects. Some rapid transportation project too, looked cool though, but scrapped. I understand that R&D means a lot of trial and error, some wasted money, but I just don't see the point in developing useless products. Jobs for locals?
    Everybody does it, including the US.

    Let see on the military side: B58 HUSTLER, XB-70 VALKYRIE, JUPITER 1 rockets, Strategic Defence Initiative (aka STAR WARS), M14 Battle Rifle
    Civilian side: California's Central Valley Project, California's High Speed Rail, 3 Mile Island

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    So why waste 10s of billions of USD on failed or unnecessary projects? Ghost towns, DF-21D, if I scour the internet I'll get more than 10 such projects. Some rapid transportation project too, looked cool though, but scrapped. I understand that R&D means a lot of trial and error, some wasted money, but I just don't see the point in developing useless products. Jobs for locals?
    Learning does not come cheap. It's their money to do as they wish. I don't want to see us crapping our pants each time China announces its is going to do this or that as is the norm in the media.

    It's quite telling when the American admiral mentioned few posts earlier, now CNO, mentions that during his submariner days they trained intensively for two years just to have the confidence that their torpedoes would hit the designated targets. There is an incredibly steep learning curve involved with becoming a capable blue water navy. This point has been stressed repeatedly over the years by sailors on this board.

    America doesn't see India as a threat. Not immediate, not in another 20 years. India needs America more.
    Iran & NK then. Paks too.

    The point is the INF only applies to the soviets & US and is now an anachronism.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Apr 19, at 16:25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Everybody does it, including the US.

    Let see on the military side: B58 HUSTLER, XB-70 VALKYRIE, JUPITER 1 rockets, Strategic Defence Initiative (aka STAR WARS), M14 Battle Rifle
    Civilian side: California's Central Valley Project, California's High Speed Rail, 3 Mile Island
    I understand that. If we compare India's wasted billions Vs India's GDP and things India has built/accomplished, India probably would beat every country hands down. The problem in India are too many - reservations, coupled with ineffective PSUs' and many more reasons (not going into detail). US, has come up with technologically superior products since I can remember (what is the failure rate? Every 3 failed projects give 1 successful product, probably). I want to understand the same vis-a-vis China. China have been copying, hacking for decades now, but are not able to produce anything world class. Millions of Chinese have graduated from US universities and gone back to China, so where does China fail and why? What is it? Fire should burn in factories, jobs for locals?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Learning does not come cheap. It's their money to do as they wish. I don't want to see us crapping our pants each time China announces its is going to do this or that as is the norm in the media.

    It's quite telling when the American admiral mentioned few posts earlier, now CNO, mentions that during his submariner days they trained intensively for two years just to have the confidence that their torpedoes would hit the designated targets. There is an incredibly steep learning curve involved with becoming a capable blue water navy. This point has been stressed repeatedly over the years by sailors on this board.
    I didn't mean the Chinese should not spend their money. It's theirs to do as they please. Check my post addressed to the Colonel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Iran & NK then. Paks too.

    The point is the INF only applies to the soviets & US and is now an anachronism.
    You think US considers Pak a threat? Why?

    Iran & NK? If US goes to war, you think these countries have any chance? I don't think so. Maybe I'm not following you here.

    INF applies to the Russians, yes, but scrapping it has reasons for the Chinese to worry more. Putin is not a fool, nor is Xi, but Russia is not building a blue water navy, Putin would absolutely love to sit back and see the Chinese go down.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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