The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It

[tbm3fan]

That is beside the point.The point is these guys and the entire network opposing Trump considers his electoral base numbering in 100+ millions people as evil.

1. Who are "these" guys?
2. Who is the "entire" network?
3. 100+ million is not possible. There are approximately 207,600,000eligable voters here. His base is roughly 43% reliable percent but not are all "hardcore to the bone" supporters.
4. Who said they were "evil"?

[Mihais]

1. Who are "these" guys?
2. Who is the "entire" network?
3. 100+ million is not possible. There are approximately 207,600,000eligable voters here. His base is roughly 43% reliable percent but not are all "hardcore to the bone" supporters.
4. Who said they were "evil"?

1.You,TH,DOR,Asty,right here,right on these pages.And on related threads.

2.Most of the media,most of the academia,every Dem voter,quite a good deal of the corporations dealing in social media,on top of my head.
3.He still got 50% for his agenda in 2016.That gives him 100 millions.If he gets elected in 2020,again is 100+ millions.
4.Are you playing stupid?You don’t call people racists and fascists and expect anyone to think you consider those folks anything but evil worthy of annihilation.

[InExile]

4.Are you playing stupid?You don’t call people racists and fascists and expect anyone to think you consider those folks anything but evil worthy of annihilation.

I do agree with some posters on this board that an uncomfortably large section of the population (in most democracies) has borderline or outright fascist views. However, 100 million is way too high, I would probably put somewhere like half of Trump voters in this category, perhaps about 30-35 million voters. No one is calling them evil though.

I don't believe in refraining from calling out people for their racist or fascist views just because their feelings may be hurt or they are feeling threatened. Its not like they are going to face any danger personally if they lose an election.

[tantalus]

No, it doesn't make you a fascist. But it does make you comfortable with Trump's brand of authoritarianism. And his racism.

People often hear want they want to hear. My point is not to label voters for what they fail to think or realise, but for what they actually think or realise. Both reveal some truth, but the former reveals more, and leads to better conversation. People should focus more on the former for the electorate and the latter for the president.

So far what I've heard from Trump's followers is:

• "He owns the libs"
• "He's the anti-lefty!"
• "I like his policies!"
• "I don't care about what Trump says, I care about what he does"

.

Well this touches on what iam saying. Many trump voters are caught in a net of their own partiular world view, that ideology lacks inflexibility, and the means justifies the ends. if you believe some of the things they beleive then it logically may follow that that trump is an accepatable downside over the dems...

I choose conversation. Trump's followers have promised -and carried out- violence and intimidation.

Never happen, for the exact reasons that you stated.

Well that is good and I believe you will find them. Somebody needs to eventually.

Some yes, but a minority surely. Never is a long time if you stay in conversation.

More broadly the right have definitely been left alienated by the quick advancement of social norms in the 20th century which has greatly enlarged the circle of equality for many groups (in and itself a great thing). Combined with cancel culture and identity politics this has made it difficult for differences in opinion to breath. While many forces are working in tandem this further heightens the risk of placing large swaths of the population in simplified brackets and backing people around the edges into those groups. Individuals than have fewer people to listen and talk to, especially as social media divides up and concentrates through its algorithms into what you only want to hear, digital islands. The fences need to be kept lower and the waters draine so people can freely move their opinions around and stay in conversation.

[Albany Rifles]

Not true, people may not like fascists but the world did not go to war with them until the Germans went on a genocidal imperial war of conquest, trying to achieve complete dominance over Europe and maybe even the world.

In neutral Spain fascism survived well into the 1970s; even Mussolini in the hypothetical scenario of not casting his lot with Hitler might have lived to a ripe old age with most of his North African empire intact.

In fact the Western democracies were desperate to reach a deal with Hitler well up to 1939, shunning the Soviets at every turn. It was only when the survival of both was at stake did they join hands.

The main reasons Western Democracies dealt with and turned a blind eye to Hitler in the 1930s were 2 fold. Fascism was seen as bulwark against communism. Western democracies, dominated by free markets, were anathema to communism. Fascism was, incorrectly, deemed to be less severe and a logical counterweight to communism. Not necessarily true but that was the wide spread belief. As the world was ravaged by Depression fascism was seen as a way yo get back on our feet.

The other reason, especially in Western Europe, was populations wholesale wanted to avoid another round of bloodletting as was seen earlier in the Balkans up through 1918. Anything which avoided that, especially in the US, was seen as a better alternative.

But here in the US we tend not like Fascists a whole lot for a majority of the population. The delta is the hardcore 25-35% that currently support Fat Nixon.

[DOR]

1.You,TH,DOR,Asty,right here,right on these pages.And on related threads.

2.Most of the media,most of the academia,every Dem voter,quite a good deal of the corporations dealing in social media,on top of my head.
3.He still got 50% for his agenda in 2016.That gives him 100 millions.If he gets elected in 2020,again is 100+ millions.
4.Are you playing stupid?You don’t call people racists and fascists and expect anyone to think you consider those folks anything but evil worthy of annihilation.

Racist? Evil.
Misogynist? Evil.
In favor of voter suppression? Evil.
Colluding with foreign powers against American national interest? Evil, evil, evil!

[TopHatter]

'Most Deranged I’ve Ever Seen': Critics Rip Trump's 'Desperate' Attack On Biden

President Donald Trump is facing heat for his ugly attack on Democrat Joe Biden’s religious faith.

Although Biden is a practicing Catholic who has for years talked openly about his faith, Trump claimed he was “against God,” then launched into a rambling attack on Thursday:

“Take away your guns, destroy your Second Amendment. No religion, no anything. Hurt the Bible. Hurt God. He’s against God. He’s against guns. He’s against energy. Our kind of energy.”

Biden later defended his faith as the “bedrock foundation” of his life.

“It’s provided me comfort in moments of loss and tragedy, it’s kept me grounded and humbled in times of triumph and joy,” he said. He described Trump as “shameful” for the attack.

“It’s beneath the office he holds and it’s beneath the dignity the American people so rightly expect and deserve from their leaders,” Biden said.

He added: “My faith teaches me to love my neighbor as I would myself while President Trump only seeks to divide us. My faith teaches me to care for the least among us while President Trump seems to only be concerned about his gilded friends. My faith teaches me to welcome the stranger while President Trump tears families apart. My faith teaches me to walk humbly while President Trump teargassed peaceful protestors so he could walk over to a church for a photo op.”
_____________

This is what Donald Trump has been reduced to.

As one Twitter reply said:

To recap the president’s campaign themes:

1. Joe Biden is very weak and feeble and hiding in his basement

2. Joe Biden is so powerful he will hurt an omnipotent deity and somehow hurt a holy book as well

3. Joe Biden is the candidate who has serious cognitive problems

[Bigfella]

Anyone care to give odds that Trump or one of his surrogates goes after Biden's dead wife and/or children before this is done? Not like we are dealing with people who have a shred of morality or decency here.

[TopHatter]

Anyone care to give odds that Trump or one of his surrogates goes after Biden's dead wife and/or children before this is done? Not like we are dealing with people who have a shred of morality or decency here.

Oh absolutely they will. Donald Trump and his surrogates are, to quote General Corman: "without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct."

Furthermore Trump's followers literally do not give single shit that Donald Trump has repeatedly given his best wishes to a monster like Ghislaine Maxwell.

Of course, given that Donald Trump is himself a serial sex predator, I'm not surprised that he did so. Kindred spirits have always had warm feelings for each other.

But at least he's an anti-lefty.

[Mihais]

In other centuries and on the other side of the planet,people talk of hundreds of cities affected by riots.Which,according to dems were carried out by....drums rolling...white supremacists.
As for Maxwell,I’m quite sure she has very interesting things to say.

[GVChamp]

The Reich-wing, as in the Alt-Right. The ones that are literally flying Nazi flags. Odd that you would assume that I'm referring to everyone right-of-center, which would include myself. To be clear, and for the record, I was referring to people like this:
[ATTACH]48906[/ATTACH]

Other than Richard Spencer, I don't even know who these guys are. The number of Nazis or anything close to Nazis is a vanishngly small segment of the population, well below the number of Americans who believe that the world is secretly run by a group of lizardpeople or the number of Americans who think Obama is the anti-christ and still voted for Obama.

"Alt-Right" encompasses a huge swathe of people, most of whom are not Nazis and are not comfortable with Nazis, which is why most of them weren't at the single protest that couldn't fill a Texas high school football stadium. Even a cursory glance shows that this "Nick Funtes" character spends a non-substantial time amount of time arguing with Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro. Folks like Steve Bannon are almost always lumped in with this group, even though Bannon ain't a freaking Nazi.

It took all of...what, a few hours and maybe a day for multiple posters to expand this group of maybe a few thousand activists to a quarter of the country? A basket of deplorables, no doubt.

Center-right? Okay, maybe. I don't know what you are, besides maniacally focused on bashing Trump. I don't like Trump either. Neither do most of the people I know who are center-right. But the issue with Epstein involves probably THOUSANDS of the national elite, many of whom probably deserve the guillotine. To you? Epstein is not even mentioned: just pure focus on a comment Trump made about Maxwell.

Most of the center-right I know have PLENTY of criticism for the GOP and Trump. They even vote for Democrats! Many even voted for Hillary and Biden! But they aren't singularly focused on bashing Trump.

[DOR]

Other than Richard Spencer, I don't even know who these guys are. The number of Nazis or anything close to Nazis is a vanishngly small segment of the population, well below the number of Americans who believe that the world is secretly run by a group of lizardpeople or the number of Americans who think Obama is the anti-christ and still voted for Obama.

"Alt-Right" encompasses a huge swathe of people, most of whom are not Nazis and are not comfortable with Nazis, which is why most of them weren't at the single protest that couldn't fill a Texas high school football stadium. Even a cursory glance shows that this "Nick Funtes" character spends a non-substantial time amount of time arguing with Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro. Folks like Steve Bannon are almost always lumped in with this group, even though Bannon ain't a freaking Nazi.

It took all of...what, a few hours and maybe a day for multiple posters to expand this group of maybe a few thousand activists to a quarter of the country? A basket of deplorables, no doubt.

Center-right? Okay, maybe. I don't know what you are, besides maniacally focused on bashing Trump. I don't like Trump either. Neither do most of the people I know who are center-right. But the issue with Epstein involves probably THOUSANDS of the national elite, many of whom probably deserve the guillotine. To you? Epstein is not even mentioned: just pure focus on a comment Trump made about Maxwell.

Most of the center-right I know have PLENTY of criticism for the GOP and Trump. They even vote for Democrats! Many even voted for Hillary and Biden! But they aren't singularly focused on bashing Trump.

Nah, there’s plenty of Nazis in America. Most of them would cringe at the term, but on an individual basis, they’d pass the sniff test.

[GVChamp]

Nah, there’s plenty of Nazis in America. Most of them would cringe at the term, but on an individual basis, they’d pass the sniff test.

There are plenty of racists in America, and there are plenty of people who are WAY too comfortable with authoritarianism for my taste, but there's not many people who are going to sign on board for death camps. At least not yet. I do not know what Americans 2 generations from now will think. I suspect Brazil is more likely than anything, and if we are unlucky, an Argentine style military dictatorship.

[TopHatter]

Other than Richard Spencer, I don't even know who these guys are. The number of Nazis or anything close to Nazis is a vanishngly small segment of the population, well below the number of Americans who believe that the world is secretly run by a group of lizardpeople or the number of Americans who think Obama is the anti-christ and still voted for Obama.

"Alt-Right" encompasses a huge swathe of people, most of whom are not Nazis and are not comfortable with Nazis, which is why most of them weren't at the single protest that couldn't fill a Texas high school football stadium. Even a cursory glance shows that this "Nick Funtes" character spends a non-substantial time amount of time arguing with Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro. Folks like Steve Bannon are almost always lumped in with this group, even though Bannon ain't a freaking Nazi.

It took all of...what, a few hours and maybe a day for multiple posters to expand this group of maybe a few thousand activists to a quarter of the country? A basket of deplorables, no doubt.

Center-right? Okay, maybe. I don't know what you are, besides maniacally focused on bashing Trump. I don't like Trump either. Neither do most of the people I know who are center-right. But the issue with Epstein involves probably THOUSANDS of the national elite, many of whom probably deserve the guillotine. To you? Epstein is not even mentioned: just pure focus on a comment Trump made about Maxwell.

Most of the center-right I know have PLENTY of criticism for the GOP and Trump. They even vote for Democrats! Many even voted for Hillary and Biden! But they aren't singularly focused on bashing Trump.

GV: The point is that the term "Reich-Wing" does not refer to everyone right-of-center as you inferred.

The top 3 Google searches show what Reich-Wing means and who it refers to:

Reich-wing (Reich-winger): A pejorative noun or adjective.

1: A political ideology with extremely radical, distorted, &/or illogical views further to the right of the political spectrum than main-stream conservatives. Or main-stream conservative ideas expressed in consistently hostile, deceptive or belligerent manner.

2: A person frequently engaging in outright propaganda, lies, and hate speech to promote those ideas. Skilled at using proven propaganda techniques and tactics that were artfully developed and practiced by members of Hitler's Third Reich. These tactics include but are not limited to: repeating proven, demonstrated, &/or obvious lies (Big Lie), never acknowledging errors and belittling opponents. Techniques include appealing to racism, bigotry, xenophobia, homophobia, and misogyny; ridiculing physical traits of opponents, and personally insulting opponents.

3: A group of people who express those views and opinions.

It is a particularly useful term to cause people hearing or reading it to unconsciously associate those engaging in such tactics with the Nazi regime.

Blend of Reich + right-wing, with the intent being to convey the view that the political right shares qualities with the Third Reich, being extreme, fascistic, etc.

politically far-right, and exhibiting Nazi-like tendencies such as fascism and white nationalism

About the only one that comes close is the Wiktionary entry.

Regarding the "alt-right", Richard Spencer "coined the term in 2010 in reference to a movement centered on white nationalism"

The 'alt-right' or 'alternative right' is a name currently embraced by some white supremacists and white nationalists to refer to themselves and their ideology, which emphasizes preserving and protecting the white race in the United States in addition to, or over, other traditional conservative positions such as limited government, low taxes and strict law-and-order. The movement has been described as a mix of racism, white nationalism and populism ... criticizes 'multiculturalism' and more rights for non-whites, women, Jews, Muslims, gays, immigrants and other minorities. Its members reject the American democratic ideal that all should have equality under the law regardless of creed, gender, ethnic origin or race.
—The Associated Press

I'm trying to wrap my head around why in the blue hell you're trying to explain them away as being anything but what they clearly are.

[TopHatter]

Center-right? Okay, maybe. I don't know what you are, besides maniacally focused on bashing Trump. I don't like Trump either. Neither do most of the people I know who are center-right. But the issue with Epstein involves probably THOUSANDS of the national elite, many of whom probably deserve the guillotine. To you? Epstein is not even mentioned: just pure focus on a comment Trump made about Maxwell.

Most of the center-right I know have PLENTY of criticism for the GOP and Trump. They even vote for Democrats! Many even voted for Hillary and Biden! But they aren't singularly focused on bashing Trump.

I'm a center-right independent, probably what's known as a "classical liberal", but now known as libertarian.

Maniacally focused on Trump? Have you been paying any attention to what he's been doing for the past 4 years? Especially the last 6-7 months?

"A comment Trump made about Maxwell". A "comment"? Are you fucking KIDDING me?

"Maniacally focused" JFC....