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Thread: The US 2020 Presidential Election

  1. #61
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    a pretty low bar, but that's essentially because Trump doesn't believe in anything other than himself. to be truly dangerous, you gotta believe.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    *** Looking at Mao, Kim, Pol Pot *** Not even close. Trump, at least, doesn't think he's a god.
    I was mostly thinking about modern (40 years or so) American politics
    So no, not a god. But being a narcissistic sociopath brings him pretty damn close.

    On the other the other hand, 4 years ago Donald Trump has publicly, brazenly and unapologetically disparaged and insulted American POW's as a group, with zero consequences.

    There should've been metaphorical torches and pitchforks in the streets, followed by Trump's head (again, metaphorically) at the end of a lance, and his body looking worse than Mussolini's after the Italians were finished with him.

    But no, nothing happened. Trump's base did nothing.

    That grotesque and self-abasing Kool-Aid guzzling brings me to the only conclusion that I can possibly draw: His base thinks he's a god.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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    If the best excuse for him is that he is not yet as bad as Mao, Kim or Pol Pot - and I think megalomania is a growing delusion (I do not supposed any of them fancied themselves as Supreme anything at first) - then a second term must be avoided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    and I think megalomania is a growing delusion - then a second term must be avoided.
    He's clearly deteriorating from dementia, which will only get worse.

    Any of this sound vaguely familiar?

    • Poor memory
    • Word finding difficulty
    • Slurred speech
    • Linguistic decline
    • Irritability
    • Depression
    • Mental confusion
    • Lack of restraint
    • Inexplicable lying
    • Poor occupational performance
    • Impaired judgment and Paranoia
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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    Our Orlando Sentinel endorsement for president in 2020: Not Donald Trump | Editorial

    Donald Trump is in Orlando to announce the kickoff of his re-election campaign.

    We’re here to announce our endorsement for president in 2020, or, at least, who we’re not endorsing: Donald Trump.

    Some readers will wonder how we could possibly eliminate a candidate so far before an election, and before knowing the identity of his opponent.

    Because there’s no point pretending we would ever recommend that readers vote for Trump.

    After 2 years we’ve seen enough.

    Enough of the chaos, the division, the schoolyard insults, the self-aggrandizement, the corruption, and especially the lies.

    So many lies — from white lies to whoppers — told out of ignorance, laziness, recklessness, expediency or opportunity.

    Trump’s capacity for lying isn’t the surprise here, though the frequency is.

    It’s the tolerance so many Americans have for it.

    There was a time when even a single lie — a phony college degree, a bogus work history — would doom a politician’s career.

    Not so for Trump, who claimed in 2017 that he lost the popular vote because millions of people voted illegally (they didn’t). In 2018 he said North Korea was no longer a nuclear threat (it is). And in 2019 he said windmills cause cancer (they don’t). Just last week he claimed the media fabricated unfavorable results from his campaign’s internal polling (it didn’t).

    According to a Washington Post database, the president has tallied more than 10,000 lies since he took office.

    Trump’s successful assault on truth is the great casualty of this presidency, followed closely by his war on decency.


    Trump insults political opponents and national heroes alike with middle-school taunts. He demonstrates no capacity for empathy or remorse. He misuses his office to punish opponents, as when he recently called for a boycott of AT&T to get even with his least favorite media outlet, CNN. He tears down institutions, once airily suggesting the U.S. should try having a leader for life as China now allows. He seems incapable of learning a lesson, telling an ABC interviewer last week — just two months after Robert Mueller’s report on election interference was released — that he would accept dirt on an opponent from Russia or China.

    Trump has diminished our standing in the world. He reneges on deals, attacks allies and embraces enemies.

    This nation must never forget that humiliating public moment in Helsinki in 2018 when the president of the United States chose to accept Vladimir Putin’s denials of Russian interference in the 2016 election over the unanimous assessment of the American intelligence community.

    Such a betrayal by a U.S. president would have been the unforgivable political sin in normal times.

    As if that’s not enough, Trump declares his love for North Korea’s Kim Jong-un, a genuine villain who starves and enslaves his people and executes his enemies with antiaircraft guns and flamethrowers.

    But he wrote the president a “beautiful letter.” Flattery will get you everywhere with this president, and that’s dangerous.

    Domestically, the president’s signature issue — immigration — has moved in fits and starts. Happily, he abandoned pursuing an outright — and unconstitutional — ban on Muslims entering the U.S., opting instead to restrict travel for people from a handful of nations, most of them majority Muslim.

    He’s tried separating families, sending troops to the border and declaring a national emergency. For all of that, illegal border crossings are, as the president himself calls it, at crisis levels.

    He blames House Democrats because casting blame is Trump’s forte. But Republicans controlled the House and the Senate for two full years. That seemed like an ideal time to fix what the president believes ails our immigration laws.

    Even with Democrats now controlling the House, where is Trump’s much-touted deal-making mojo, an attribute he campaigned on?

    “But the economy!”

    Yes, the market has done well since Trump’s election.

    The S&P 500 was up about 21% between Trump’s inauguration and May 31 of his third year in office. Under President Obama, it was up about 56% in that same period.

    Unemployment is headed down, as it was during seven straight years under Obama.

    Wages are up, and that’s a welcome change. But GDP increases so far are no better than some periods under Obama. Deficit spending under Obama was far too high, in part because of the stimulus needed to dig out of the Great Recession. Under Trump, it’s still headed in the wrong direction, once again pushing $1 trillion even though the economy is healthy.

    Trump seems to care nothing about the deficit and the national debt, which once breathed life into the Tea Party.

    Through all of this, Trump’s base remains loyal. Sadly, the truest words Trump might ever have spoken was when he said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose his supporters.

    This non-endorsement isn’t defaulting to whomever the Democrats choose. This newspaper has a history of presidential appointments favoring Republicans starting in the mid-20th century. Except for Lyndon Johnson in 1964, the Sentinel backed Republican presidential nominees from 1952 through 2004, when we recommended John Kerry over another four years of George W. Bush.

    As recently as 2012 we recommended Republican Mitt Romney because of what seemed at the time to be Obama’s failure to adequately manage the nation’s finances.


    If — however unlikely — a Republican like Romney, now a senator from Utah, or former Ohio Gov. John Kasich successfully primaried the president, we would eagerly give them a look. Same if an independent candidate mounted a legitimate campaign.

    We’d even consider backing Trump if, say, he found the proverbial cure for cancer or — about as likely — changed the essence of who he is (he won’t).

    The nation must endure another 1 years of Trump. But it needn’t suffer another four beyond that.

    We can do better. We have to do better.
    Link
    _________________

    Couldn't have said it any better myself.

    Oh and to reiterate: This is a newspaper that has backed GOP Presidential candidates every election except Barry Goldwater in '64 and Bush II in '04. Hardly the track record of a liberal newspaper.
    Last edited by TopHatter; 18 Jun 19, at 22:36.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    That grotesque and self-abasing Kool-Aid guzzling brings me to the only conclusion that I can possibly draw: His base thinks he's a god.
    The worst his base is going to do is to vote for him. Mao, Kim, and Pol Pot got children to litterally butcher their elders and those fucks actually thought they're prepping the way to a glorious communist paradise. Trump, at worst, is going to crash the economy.

    The levels of insanity between them and Trump is just not comparable, not by a long shot. Trump's base may be stupid but nowhere close being that stupid. Have faith in your fellow Americans. They would never tolerate truly evil gods.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Have faith in your fellow Americans. They would never tolerate truly evil gods.
    This ^. Also, Constitution of the United States. Enough checks and balances. Which is why, though not an American, I believe one mad man isn't enough to F up the US. President Trump's term will end, but I'm afraid by that time he'd have ravaged the relationship with most allies. Holding a gun to an ally's head is not diplomacy, it's stupid oneupmanship.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    President Trump's term will end, but I'm afraid by that time he'd have ravaged the relationship with most allies. Holding a gun to an ally's head is not diplomacy, it's stupid oneupmanship.
    No, it won't. I've been through this twice in my lifetime. Trump would be the 3rd. Carter, Bush II both damaged allied relationships. Everything was hunky dory when Reagan and Obama came to power. And before that, Eisenhower publically humanlated the UK, France, and Israel.

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    No, it won't. I've been through this twice in my lifetime. Trump would be the 3rd. Carter, Bush II both damaged allied relationships. Everything was hunky dory when Reagan and Obama came to power. And before that, Eisenhower publically humanlated the UK, France, and Israel.
    eisenhower and carter was less concerning because in the context of the Cold War, it's not as if our allies were gonna sign up with the Soviets.

    plus the deal that we were offering the Europeans was that we were OK with them spending less money on their military in return for basing/acquiesence to US leadership.

    China is a more invidious threat than the USSR-- it's an economic dominance game, which is something the Soviets could never challenge the US on. so now we're in the position of asking these same allies to banish Huawei, for instance, when that has real costs to their respective economies.

    it's true that our alliances are resilient, but abusing them for sh*tty, short-term and highly debatable gains is stupid.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    It is not a matter of "banishing Huawei" so much as excluding it from the role out of 5G in national networks. That to my mind seems eminently sensible without being asked to do it anyway as Chinese law requires Huawei to provide them with any data it's has collected if asked. Poland has ruled out Huawei involvement in 5G already on those grounds. It does not mean they cannot sell phones or whatnot - it's just saying they cannot have involvement in 5G development and roll out.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    The worst his base is going to do is to vote for him. Mao, Kim, and Pol Pot got children to litterally butcher their elders and those fucks actually thought they're prepping the way to a glorious communist paradise. Trump, at worst, is going to crash the economy.

    The levels of insanity between them and Trump is just not comparable, not by a long shot. Trump's base may be stupid but nowhere close being that stupid. Have faith in your fellow Americans. They would never tolerate truly evil gods.
    Sir, going all the way down the ladder to Mao, Kim and Pol Pot is patently absurd. This isn't China, North Korea or Cambodia. If we're using those monsters as a measuring stick against Trump, that is as Eric said, a pretty low bar.

    I had faith in my fellow Americans...until Trump was able to, as mentioned, disparaged POW's with impunity.

    There is very little in this country that is more sacred than our servicemen and women and especially our fallen dead and prisoners of war. An entire genre of action movies in the 80's was devoted to POW/MIA's that catered to what is essentially Trump's base.

    If Obama or Clinton had made a remark even approaching what Trump said, there would've been literal pitchforks and torches in the streets.
    Instead, a draft-dodging coward born with a silver spoon up his ass is still revered like no other. Not even Obama's hero-worshippers have approached these ridiculous lows.

    Trump has done far than than potentially crashed the economy, as that op-ed made clear: Trump’s successful assault on truth, and the tolerance so many Americans have for it, is the great casualty of this presidency.

    How in the fuck have people in this country sunk so low?
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    There is very little in this country that is more sacred than our servicemen and women and especially our fallen dead and prisoners of war. An entire genre of action movies in the 80's was devoted to POW/MIA's that catered to what is essentially Trump's base.

    If Obama or Clinton had made a remark even approaching what Trump said, there would've been literal pitchforks and torches in the streets.
    Instead, a draft-dodging coward born with a silver spoon up his ass is still revered like no other. Not even Obama's hero-worshippers have approached these ridiculous lows.
    No kidding in that and probably worse with death threats.

    Trump has done far than than potentially crashed the economy, as that op-ed made clear: Trumps successful assault on truth, and the tolerance so many Americans have for it, is the great casualty of this presidency.

    How in the fuck have people in this country sunk so low?
    One could say we now have the biggest internet Troll actually living in the White House and who has absolutely no qualms, whatsoever, in tearing down any American institution. The only thing sacred, is him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Sir, going all the way down the ladder to Mao, Kim and Pol Pot is patently absurd. This isn't China, North Korea or Cambodia. If we're using those monsters as a measuring stick against Trump, that is as Eric said, a pretty low bar.
    I'm Canadian. My perspective, therefore, has to be that of a non-American. And you're right, the US is not China, North Korea, nor Cambodia, not because you're any better but because of the damned hard work your people put in to make sure you're not them. Look at Central and South America, you could have easily gone that way. You fought a Civil War on the basis of human rights and Martin Lurther King's work in no small measure made sure those monsters don't come to power. Do not under-estimate your history in forging your identity and therefore, your protection against those monsters.

    I also believe you and Eric under-estimated the personal capabilities of Mao, Kim, and Pol Pot. There was no doubt that these men had charisma. So much charisma that they managed to convince young children to turn on their parents. That little slogans was enough to turn loving children into monsters of their own. Soldiers are in tears seeing any of the Kims. Pol Pot got kids to do the dirty work in the Killing Fields. Mao even managed to have Americans quoting from the Little Red Book.

    Trump ain't nowhere close to having that kind of charisma.

    However, you did have such candidates. Joseph McCarthy could very well have lead the US down the wrong path had it not been for some very courageous men who fought back in the Courts. The US was also not immune to Cults of Personality. The Kenedys prove that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    I had faith in my fellow Americans...until Trump was able to, as mentioned, disparaged POW's with impunity.

    There is very little in this country that is more sacred than our servicemen and women and especially our fallen dead and prisoners of war. An entire genre of action movies in the 80's was devoted to POW/MIA's that catered to what is essentially Trump's base.

    If Obama or Clinton had made a remark even approaching what Trump said, there would've been literal pitchforks and torches in the streets.
    Instead, a draft-dodging coward born with a silver spoon up his ass is still revered like no other. Not even Obama's hero-worshippers have approached these ridiculous lows.

    Trump has done far than than potentially crashed the economy, as that op-ed made clear: Trump’s successful assault on truth, and the tolerance so many Americans have for it, is the great casualty of this presidency.
    I've also lived through a time when people spat on anyone in uniform and called them baby killers. Today, most American politicians like to pretend that the Iraq War never happened.

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    The 'charisma' of a tyrant is dependent on his ability to control the media (the first thing Putin did) and the length of time he serves (cannot think of a Lady tyrant offhand). The rest is done by killing the opposition or throwing them into 're-education' gulags in the middle of the night. Pretty soon you'll find that all people asked love the 'saviour' of whatever numbskull people it is. If they had real charisma it would be no problem for them to face a free election.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    I'm Canadian. My perspective, therefore, has to be that of a non-American.
    I understand that Sir, and I'm certainly not trying to diminish your comments or experience because of your nationality.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    And you're right, the US is not China, North Korea, nor Cambodia, not because you're any better but because of the damned hard work your people put in to make sure you're not them. Look at Central and South America, you could have easily gone that way. You fought a Civil War on the basis of human rights and Martin Lurther King's work in no small measure made sure those monsters don't come to power. Do not under-estimate your history in forging your identity and therefore, your protection against those monsters.
    I certainly don't think that we're going to have the China/DPRK/Cambodia model here but as you said, we damn well ought not to have such a thing, considering our history. But to see the President of the United States, in the 21st Century, openly and unapologetically enabling Nazis, even wannabe Nazi losers....it's just...unsettling in the extreme.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Trump ain't nowhere close to having that kind of charisma.
    It's not a case of charisma, it's that he's saying proudly and publicly what these shit stains have been afraid to say.

    We're going in reverse, thanks to Trump.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    However, you did have such candidates. Joseph McCarthy could very well have lead the US down the wrong path had it not been for some very courageous men who fought back in the Courts. The US was also not immune to Cults of Personality. The Kenedys prove that much.
    No doubt about it, there have indeed been men of ill will in the highest reaches of the government in our recent past...and they were taken down because the system worked. But the system now is not of the same caliber, capability or fortitude that it once was, in my opinion. I hope I'm wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    I've also lived through a time when people spat on anyone in uniform and called them baby killers. Today, most American politicians like to pretend that the Iraq War never happened.
    American politicians are basically irrelevant to what we're talking about here. We're talking about Trump's base.

    Regarding soldiers being spat on, being called baby killers: Those were leftists spitting on the military, pretty much par for the course for them and especially at that time in history. This is the complete opposite: Trump's base is right-wing, pro-military...who have always, but especially in the last 40 years, revered POWs...and Trump spat on that revered group of people...and his base doesn't give a single shit about it.

    It's as if a liberal icon, for example JFK, had openly disparaged Martin Luther King...and the left wing reacted with a collective shrug (only far worse).
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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