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Thread: The US 2020 Presidential Election

  1. #241
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    What is an "insane conspiracy theory" about that? Putin was asked at Helsinki if he had supported Trump in 2016 and he said he had. We all know your intel services confirm this and judge that Putin is seeking to support Trumpkin this year.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofelas View Post
    Seriously. Stop with the inane conspiracy theories.
    It's not a conspiracy theory that Putin prefers Donald Trump right where he is right now. A blind man could see that. Russian intelligence agencies actively worked to put him in the White House.

    And now in 2020, what has Trump done since then to show that he's suddenly hostile to Russia and Russian interests?

    Hell, he flat out said that he believes Putin over U.S. intelligence agencies regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election.

    Donald Trump is the best, most powerful friend Russia has had in this country in many many decades. That is not a conspiracy theory. That is established fact.

    Unless you need a proclamation of love from Trump to Putin to prove that?
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  3. #243
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    Yup Trump going easy on the commies!
    He has been pressuring Europe not to buy Russian fuel that funds their war machine.
    Vlad must really want the American economy to roar with the Trump economy rolling.

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...r-long-periods

    https://news.usni.org/2020/02/24/vid...ored-by-russia

    Vlad also must likes to have his tankers dodging javelin missiles that the other party refused to provide to the Ukrainians?

    The coming discontinuation of the Virginia Class to be superseded by SSN(x) a blue water attack boat to counter the Russians. Sure, Vlad wants that!
    He would much rather have a comrade Bernie that would slash the DOD like nobodies business. Keep drinking that anti Trump Kool Aid!
    Last edited by surfgun; 24 Feb 20, at 20:10.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Yup Trump going easy on the commies!
    Yes, he is! Because you clearly didn't bother to read any of those links

    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    He has been pressuring Europe not to buy Russian fuel that funds their war machine.
    So they can buy from the U.S. Yeah, he's really hard on Russia lol

    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Vlad must really want the American economy to roar with the Trump economy rolling.
    I don't think he gives a damn about the U.S. economy, as long Trump keeps trying to get those sanctions lifted.

    Still not reading the stuff you're linking to I see. There isn't a SINGLE mention of Trump in that article because it's about what the NAVY wants. You honestly think that Trump can even comprehend what a Integrated Underwater Surveillance System does, much less why it's important? Really?

    Oh look, another article without a single word about Trump. Probably because these Black Sea cruises have been going on for years before Trump came into office. Or do you think that Trump is personally ordering these missions? Nope, he's doing the exact opposite! The US Navy canceled a routine Black Sea patrol after Trump complained that it was hostile to Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Vlad also must likes to have his tankers dodging javelin missiles that the other party refused to provide to the Ukrainians?
    We've been over this one before but holy shit that Trump kool-aid sure does do a number on your memory doesn't it.

    And of course there's the whole "We'll give you something but first we need a favor though...."

    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    The coming discontinuation of the Virginia Class to be superseded by SSN(x) a blue water attack boat to counter the Russians. Sure, Vlad wants that!
    Sure, you can credit that to Trump! Because he's all about those shipbuilding details and personally ordered the SSN(x) class himself! Oh wait....

    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    He would much rather have a comrade Bernie that would slash the DOD like nobodies business.
    You're right, I'm sure he'd much rather have a fawning sycophant like Trump that publicly calls on Russia to interfere in US elections than someone like Sanders that immediately and forcefully tells Putin: "If elected president, trust me, you will not be interfering in American elections....I don't care, frankly, who Putin wants to be president. My message to Putin is clear: stay out of American elections."

    Then there's Donald Trump: “Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing”

    Sanders is a liberal moonbat of the first order. But at least he knows that Putin's Russia is the enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Keep drinking that anti Trump Kool Aid!
    Oh right, that stuff called Reality? Trust me, it tastes delicious....provided that you're not a Trump follower of course.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  5. #245
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    the most depressing thing about this whole election cycle is that now we get subjected to even louder versions of Bernie Bros and Trump Trolls, every single one of them screeching about conspiracy this and establishment that.

    in a perfect universe i'd like to lock them all away in Florida and watch the deathmatch from a air-conditioned box with a glass of scotch in one hand and some jalapeno popcorn in another, but here we are.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Yup Trump going easy on the commies!
    He has been pressuring Europe not to buy Russian fuel that funds their war machine.
    Vlad must really want the American economy to roar with the Trump economy rolling.

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...r-long-periods

    https://news.usni.org/2020/02/24/vid...ored-by-russia

    Vlad also must likes to have his tankers dodging javelin missiles that the other party refused to provide to the Ukrainians?

    The coming discontinuation of the Virginia Class to be superseded by SSN(x) a blue water attack boat to counter the Russians. Sure, Vlad wants that!
    He would much rather have a comrade Bernie that would slash the DOD like nobodies business. Keep drinking that anti Trump Kool Aid!
    How does one go easy on the commies even if that term isn't quite right today. It is so simple even a caveman could figure it out. Know any cavemen, comrade?

    Disavowing and then hamstringing your own intelligence services is the best gift one could give them and the one that benefits them the most in the long run. Everything runs through intel so let's turn them loose.

  7. #247
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    Here is an amusing one for you guys to chew on, Dick Morris speculating that Hillary Clinton might be working her cauldron fire and getting her broom ready to fly into a brokered Democrat convention, gain support of the Democrat Party Apparatchik Super Delegates, and take the nomination away from Bernie Sanders, this time maybe with some help from Michael Bloomberg.

    Ex-Clinton advisor Dick Morris predicts Bloomberg & Clintons plotting 'scheme' to make Hillary the Democrat Nominee, 'Hillary is the only candidate that they'll be able to come up with that can measure up to Donald Trump'

    FEBRUARY 23, 2020

    Dick Morris, a former adviser to Bill Clinton, predicted Sunday that Michael Bloomberg and Hillary Clinton are plotting a "scheme" that would allow Clinton to become the 2020 Democratic nominee.

    Speaking with radio host John Catsimatidis on "The Cats Roundtable," Morris said that he believes Bloomberg will continue to campaign and spend loads of cash to syphon support from Sen. Bernie Sanders and trigger a brokered convention.

    "Here's the deal that I think is going down. I think Hillary and Bloomberg have gotten together and cooked up a scheme," Morris said.

    Morris went on to explain:

    Nobody will be nominated on the first ballot, and it'll go to a second ballot. Now, the problem is that the party establishment doesn't have a candidate. They can't do Bloomberg because he got killed in the debate. ... Can't do [Joe] Biden because he's already lost the frontrunner status. … [Pete] Buttigieg looks like a high school kid at the Model UN, and he's not gonna be able to have it, certainly not against [President Donald] Trump. [Elizabeth] Warren is third, but she's pretty far to the left, and people are not gonna want to— they're not going to want to trust her.

    And when you put it together, it will go to a second ballot and then I think Hillary Clinton enters the race. And the superdelegates will all leave who they are for and go to Hillary.
    Morris characterized his theory as the "establishment scenario," suggesting that he believes moderate Democrats will do everything in their power to prevent Sanders from securing the Democratic nomination.

    "Hillary is the only candidate that they'll be able to come up with that can measure up to Donald Trump," Morris said.

    Morris went on to say that if Sanders does win the Democratic nomination, then President Donald Trump will not only "massacre" him in the general election, but the Democratic Party as a whole, predicting Democrats would lose upwards of 60 seats in the House.
    Last edited by JRT; 25 Feb 20, at 03:57.
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  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRT View Post
    Here is an amusing one for you guys to chew on, Dick Morris speculating that Hillary Clinton might be working her cauldron fire and getting her broom ready to fly into a brokered Democrat convention, gain support of the Democrat Party Apparatchik Super Delegates, and take the nomination away from Bernie Sanders, this time maybe with some help from Michael Bloomberg.
    He makes some interesting points, but others are kinda batshit, like: "Hillary is the only candidate that they'll be able to come up with that can measure up to Donald Trump"

    I mean, yeah, she beat Trump by nearly 3 million votes last time, but still...It's Hillary Clinton.

    On the other hand he's completely on point here: If Sanders does win the Democratic nomination, then President Donald Trump will not only "massacre" him in the general election, but the Democratic Party as a whole, predicting Democrats would lose upwards of 60 seats in the House.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  9. #249
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    morris' take is complete crap, of course-- HRC is not a gifted politician but she's competent enough to know that a Bloomberg/HRC combo uprooting Sanders would be sufficient to cause a full blown Dem civil war.

    re: Sanders, there's upper limits on what Dems will lose even in a worst case scenario-- due to multiple factors, it's unlikely that the GOP can repeat 2010. (ie, Dems lost so heavily in the House in 2010 in part because they had done very well in the two House elections beforehand, the crap economy then, ACA, etc).

    the most likely scenario with a Sanders loss is that the Dems see their House majority slashed (but -likely- not lost; there's enough of a buffer). For Dems, the painful part will be the Senate, where the GOP has the distinct chance of increasing their majority (Doug Jones probably can't hold his seat).
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  10. #250
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    leave it to the Tea Party guy to have better sense than that dipsh*t Lloyd Blankfein.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...s-never-trump/

    Joe Walsh: I’m no fan of Bernie Sanders. But #NeverTrump means never Trump.
    Sorry, GOP outcasts, but #SometimesTrump just doesn’t cut it.

    By Joe Walsh
    Joe Walsh is a former Illinois congressman and the author of "F*ck Silence: Calling Trump Out for the Cultish, Moronic, Authoritarian Con Man He Is."
    Feb. 25, 2020 at 6:00 a.m. EST

    This isn’t complicated. “Never Trump,” “never-Trump” or, if you prefer, #NeverTrump has always been a straightforward concept — the word “never” is right there in the name. But with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) moving ahead of the pack as the clear front-runner in this year’s Democratic presidential primaries, some of my Republican and ex-Republican brethren have started implying that what never-Trump actually meant was something more like: fingers-crossed-I-really-really-hope-not-Trump-but-I-guess-sometimes-Trump if Democrats wind up nominating a self-described democratic socialist. But that’s not how this works.

    I mean, I get it. They’re chafing at the thought of voting for a guy who calls his movement a “political revolution,” talks nonstop about Medicare-for-All (but talks a lot less about how he’ll pay for it) and who said “it’s unfair to simply say everything is bad” about Fidel Castro — not in a stray comment back in his radical heyday, but in a “60 Minutes” interview earlier this week. And I sympathize: My congressional career was short-lived, but I came in with the original tea party wave. If it were up to me, Sanders isn’t the guy I’d put in charge.

    But when I finally came around to saying, “never Trump,” I meant it. And if you’re a Republican who claimed the never-Trump label as a badge of honor during the last few years, to prove to the world that you’re a principled conservative, and not a Trump dupe, then you should have meant it, too.

    No, never-Trump isn’t an official designation. It’s not (yet) a political party. It’s not a club with bylaws. But it is an idea. It means that President Trump — his impeachable conduct, his nonstop racist jabs, his tariffs, his nepotism, his knee-jerk foreign policy and his insistence on turning the presidency into a cult of personality — is the real bridge too far, not Sen. Sanders.

    Never-Trump means that you still believe in the Constitution. It means you knew what Benjamin Franklin meant when he warned that we Americans have been blessed with a republic, “if you can keep it.” It means you recognize that Trump is enough of a threat to our founding principles that you won’t vote for him under any circumstances. And, at least to me, it also means you’ll suck it up and support his Democratic opponent, no matter who that is. So, when I started seeing tweets like this after Sanders won the Nevada caucuses over the weekend, it made me question just how serious some never-Trumpers really were:


    Erick Erickson

    @EWErickson
    It is remarkable that the Democrats are going to hand their nomination to a man who will cause a lot of my Never Trump friends who are still opposed to Trump to suddenly hold their noses and vote Trump.

    7,517
    2:44 PM - Feb 23, 2020
    Twitter Ads info and privacy
    5,713 people are talking about this

    Lots of politicians stink, and people hold their noses and vote for them, anyway. But if you’ve already gone on record as a never-Trumper, and now you’re saying that you’ll vote for Trump because you don’t like the alternative, you’re not holding your nose, you’re inhaling deeply.

    I hate to break it to you, but if you’re really never-Trump, then you know there’s no except-if-he’s-a-socialist footnote. There’s no but-she’s-way-too-professor-ish clause. Nothing in the fine print says the only acceptable Democratic alternative is another arrogant billionaire. I thought this was understood.

    Joe Walsh: I support Trump. But if he’s wrong, he’s wrong — and firing Comey was wrong.

    In 2016, sadly, I supported Trump. I freely admit that I’m a second-wave never-Trumper. But once I got here, it was always my plan to stay. Because, for me, the ways in which Trump threatens this country go beyond left-right ideology. He lies constantly. He grants pardons to toadies. He conflates America’s financial interests with his own. He uses his bully pulpit to air a never-ending, year-round list of Festivus grievances.

    He surrounds himself with lackeys and purges staff who won’t do his bidding. He’s an authoritarian who once said, with a straight face, “I have an Article II, where I have the right to do whatever I want.” That’s a bigger threat to America than free college, a $15-per-hour minimum wage and Glass-Steagall part deux. Yes, I’m a fiscal conservative who still worries about the national debt. But not as much as I worry about Trump wrecking my country.

    And yeah, I worry that if Sanders is the nominee, Trump will spend the rest of the year doing everything he can to make him look like Castro Jr. And I worry that he’ll succeed. No one should doubt the possibility of another Trump term.

    But I’m not a Democrat. It’s not my job to tell Democrats whom to choose. What I can do, and what I have done, is pledge that I’ll vote for their nominee. Even Bernie. He and I hardly agree on anything, but if he’s the nominee, I won’t just vote for him, I’ll campaign for him.

    If that surprises you, it shouldn’t. I tried to run against Trump in the GOP primary, because I believe in this country. I sidelined my syndicated talk-radio show because I don’t want to be a bought-off mouthpiece for the regime. Because never-Trump means never. And I’d rather have a socialist in the White House than a con man.
    Last edited by astralis; 25 Feb 20, at 15:45.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    [Trump's] an authoritarian who once said, with a straight face, “I have an Article II, where I have the right to do whatever I want.” That’s a bigger threat to America than free college, a $15-per-hour minimum wage and Glass-Steagall part deux.

    And I’d rather have a socialist in the White House than a con man.
    That's the shape of it right there.

    Amazing how many Americans want - downright crave - an authoritarian cult-of-personality (emphasis on cult) ruler dictating his personal whims from the Oval Office.

    The fact that it's a transparent grifter/failed businessman like Trump is even more depressing.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  12. #252
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    Given Dick Morris' close ties to the Clintons, I suspect that he was lofting a trial balloon for them. He takes the heat for that rather than the Clintons, but it gets the idea floated. Rather than a balloon, perhaps a gaseous turd floating to the top of the toilet bowl might be the better metaphor in this case.

    Although his comments seem to have been largely ignored by many in the press and many among the electorate, his comments may have been noticed by a much larger fraction of the important few Democrat Party Apparatchiks, and that might plant some seed kernels of future thoughts among those Democrat Party Apparatchiks going into a brokered convention.
    Last edited by JRT; 25 Feb 20, at 17:52.
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  13. #253
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    what "close ties" with the Clintons? they've been on the outs for well over 20 years now.

    also what remains of the Dem Party "apparatchiks" no longer exists, as evidenced by the fact that Sanders pretty much got his way this go-around-- all the DNC reforms were essentially meant to placate him, including massively weakening the role of superdelegates.

    so no, the Morris stuff is a bunch of crap and none of it is going to happen.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    also what remains of the Dem Party "apparatchiks" no longer exists, as evidenced by the fact that Sanders pretty much got his way this go-around-- all the DNC reforms were essentially meant to placate him, including massively weakening the role of superdelegates.

    so no, the Morris stuff is a bunch of crap and none of it is going to happen.
    I am not taking Morris' position in support of HRC as a possible candidate, am not defending his position, rather just found it amusing.

    That said, I do see a significant possibility of a brokered Democrat Convention, and with that I see a significant possibility of a Democrat candidate that was not the leader coming out of the state primaries.

    The big change to accomodate Bernie (and his faction of supporters) after their 2016 loss was that the Democrat Party Apparatchik Super Delegates (DPASDs) cannot vote in the first round at the Democrat Convention, but may vote in any subsequent rounds.

    In 2016 the DPASDs supported HRC in the first round and by doing so short circuited not just Bernie, but also most influence that Bernie might have negotiated into the Democrat Party's various positions on the talking point issues in the election platform. Because of that, Bernie was not able to swing that platform further left of center.

    The state delegates are bound to their candidate in the first round, but not in subsequent rounds. In that first round, if there is no majority winner (in excess of 50% of the votes) then there will be subsequent voting rounds and it becomes a brokered convention. After that first round the delegates and super delegates can select anyone regardless any support or lack of it prior to the convention.

    I suspect that nobody will have clear majority in the first round of votes, so I think that we will see a brokered Democrat Convention. Those DPASDs will swing the voting rounds subsequent to the first round, and will swing that influence to the candidate of their choosing. In that, DPASDs will also be looking at the bigger picture of avoiding loss of seats in House and Senate. That said, they might be willing to lose seats there to gain the White House and with that the prerogative of the POTUS to nominate Justices to the SCOTUS to replace Ginsburg (age 86) and Breyer (age 81).
    Last edited by JRT; 26 Feb 20, at 15:21.
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    That said, I do see a significant possibility of a brokered Democrat Convention, and with that I see a significant possibility of a Democrat candidate that was not the leader coming out of the state primaries.
    yeah, i'm addressing the Clinton part. there may very well be a contested/brokered convention, but it's not going to involve HRC as a VP candidate or whatever.

    Sanders will likely come out with a plurality so even if he doesn't get the nod, there will need to be serious concessions to him and his team to ensure they don't stay home at the general.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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