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Chinese actions in the South China Seas
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Originally posted by Pnoy View PostThis is the typical US attitude, pretend they dont need you, because they are too arrogant to admit that they cannot pursue their goals without vital support from other nations.
Originally posted by Pnoy View PostWorse, US always attempt to get what they want for free lol! Being a capitalist country, they should know better that there is no such thing as a free lunch. This is the very reason why they got booted out of the Clark airbase in the early 90s, they were paying the Philippine government a low rent despite the facility being located in a very strategic spot, the Philippine government then decided that enough is enough and asked the US to respect the Philippines as an equal partner and pay the right amount of rent to restore the dignity of the Filipino people.
Originally posted by Pnoy View PostHowever, instead of acting like a responsible partner and ally, the US had thrown a tantrum and refused the generous offer of the Philippine government. Resorting to their traditional attitude of arrogance, thinking that they have no need for the Philippines, the US opted to pack up and leave.
Originally posted by Pnoy View PostBut their departure has revealed many violations of the country’s environmental laws and the toxic waste from the facility resulted to the sickness, disease and deaths of countless Filipinos that are living adjacent to the area. The US never acknowledged any responsibility for the waste generated by their shuttered facility. This is just one of the many grievances the Philippines had in to endure in the duration of its partnership with the United States.Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 30 Jun 19,, 19:18.Chimo
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The US didn't need you
Mount Pinatubo destroyed both Clarke and Subic Bay
The US did not abandon the alliance. They simply saw no need to pay the Phillipines to participate in their own defence against a then non-existing threat. Clarke and Subic Bay was returned to the Phillipines.
When you're evicting someone, don't expect them to leave your place in good order. One year is just enough time to get your stuff out. No one is going to bother to leave in spic and span conditions when you don't give them enough time.
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Originally posted by Pnoy View PostThey need the Philippines but dont have the courage to admit it. just like the kind of denial you are doing now.
Originally posted by Pnoy View PostToday, America is trying hard to bait the Philippines into entering a conflict against China, but with Duterte's leadership, such a scenario is very slim.
Originally posted by Pnoy View PostThe country's leadership won't change at least until elections in 2022, so China has enough time to dig in and establish a stronger relationship with the Philippines to nullify the chance of another warmongering stooge getting elected and restarting Washington's plan to start a war in the SCS.
Originally posted by Pnoy View PostYou are deliberately twisting the point here, America can always rebuild the facilities, but America is CHEAP and don't want to spend a dime even for a long time ally like the Philippines.
Originally posted by Pnoy View PostIt only shows how little importance the US gives to its alliance with the Philippines. America is only using the Volcano event as an excuse, but really they simply dont want to pay the proper rent for these facilities. so much for the world's largest economy.
Originally posted by Pnoy View PostThis is another misleading statement, what is the use of an "Alliance" if the one who's supposed to come to your help is nowhere near your place?
Originally posted by Pnoy View PostWhen the Soviet Union collapsed, did the US removed their bases in Europe? No.
Originally posted by Pnoy View PostAll America needs to do is swallow their pride and give the Philippines the compensation it deserves.
Originally posted by Pnoy View PostThen such actions by the United States says alot about their TRUE nature. They have no honor and respect for their allies. In this instance, the United States could have vacated and cleaned up both facilities in just under 6 months IF they really wanted to.
Originally posted by Pnoy View PostBut the world's Biggest economy is not willing to spend 50 billion, 100 billion or 1 trillion $$$ for the sake of their ally. instead they back stabbed the Philippines and left their facilities oozing with harmful and deadly chemicals which caused great misery to thousands of FilipinosChimo
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Originally posted by Pnoy View PostHowever, instead of acting like a responsible partner and ally, the US had thrown a tantrum and refused the generous offer of the Philippine government. Resorting to their traditional attitude of arrogance, thinking that they have no need for the Philippines, the US opted to pack up and leave.
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Originally posted by Pnoy View PostThey need the Philippines but dont have the courage to admit it. just like the kind of denial you are doing now. Today, America is trying hard to bait the Philippines into entering a conflict against China, but with Duterte's leadership, such a scenario is very slim. The country's leadership won't change at least until elections in 2022, so China has enough time to dig in and establish a stronger relationship with the Philippines to nullify the chance of another warmongering stooge getting elected and restarting Washington's plan to start a war in the SCS.
You are making me think that my father wasted his time landing at Leyte and then losing his best friend in the mountains. Fortunately my wife, a Filipina, sees things much different from you.
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Impeach me, I'll jail you - Philippines' Duterte dares foes to test him | Reuters | Jun 28 2019
Duterte vented his anger late on Thursday amid intense media scrutiny and accusations that he is siding with China over a June 9 sinking of a Filipino fishing boat by a Chinese vessel, which happened inside Manila’s Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).
The maverick leader has echoed Beijing’s line that it was an accident, not an intentional ramming, and shrugged off the presence of Chinese fishermen inside the Philippine EEZ, saying he would allow it out of friendship.
Some high-profile critics, among them a top judge and a former foreign minister, have called that a breach of the constitution, or worthy of his impeachment.
“Me? Will be impeached? I will jail them all,” Duterte told reporters. “Try to do it and I will do it. Son of a bitch.”
He added: “I am challenging you to do it. You really want to force my hand into it? Okay. You sons of bitches, do it. Yes. File it.”
U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet on Monday said there was a “very real risk of violence” for Filipinos who speak out, noting threats were publicly made by state officials.
Some analysts say China’s offers of high-interest infrastructure loans and promises of massive investments have won Duterte’s acquiescence, but with much of that yet to materialise and China further militarising its artificial islands and strengthening its fishing militia, Duterte risks looking like he is being duped.
So I will reiterate what i said back in post #155
Bolton will where Ash Carter would not.Last edited by Double Edge; 01 Jul 19,, 12:16.
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^ This clown has all the authoritarian traits like his Chinese friends. I think Beijing has bought him, corrupt that is, and he's playing to Xi's looney tunes.Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!
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When the US left Clark and Subic Bay, there was no strategic need for those bases.
Bait the Philippines? Manila is doing all that herself. The US has no need to bait anyone.
https://news.abs-cbn.com/news/05/17/...-fortification
There won't be war in the SCS. The Chinese ain't stupid enough to start a fight they can't win.
In 1992, the Soviets were gone and the US only needed a garage at Subic Bay. They did not need nor want Clarke.
The Senior partner decides alliance actions, not the junior.
NATO was created to keep the Americans in Europe, the Soviets out, and the Germans down.
You didn't say clean up before you leave. You just say to get out.
or fuck sakes, they lost an army and a fleet. Eighty thousand Americans bled to free you from Japan.
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Originally posted by Double Edge View PostImpeach me, I'll jail you - Philippines' Duterte dares foes to test him | Reuters | Jun 28 2019
Oh! look some people in PH disagree with Duterte, wonder why
Who put this guy in office ? people of PH or is he like chief executive of HK appointed by Beijing
I see
Sounds familiar
So I will reiterate what i said back in post #155
Bolton will where Ash Carter would not.Last edited by tbm3fan; 01 Jul 19,, 16:46.
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Originally posted by Pnoy View PostStop pretending you do not know the circumstances in Asia during WWll. Japan was left with no other choice but to invade the Philippines because at the time the Philippines is under American occupation. If Americans are not in the Philippines at that time, lets say if it was still under Spain, then there will be no need for the Japanese to invade because their chief concern is the Americans, not the Spanish. Besides, America needed to clear out Japanese presence in the Philippines anyway, otherwise how do you expect to win the war when there are still Japanese forces in other parts of Asia? What i am saying here is, you are required to defeat Japan no matter what, so dont twist facts and make it look like America saved the Philippines out of goodwill. It is like going to your job, you dont go to work because you're doing your boss or the company you are working for a favour, you go to work because you needed to.
The man you are arguing with is so beyond your pay grade in knowledge.
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Lots of debt due to loans and then a bankrupt government that signs over Philippine property to the Chinese for 99 years.
You are making me think that my father wasted his time landing at Leyte and then losing his best friend in the mountains.
Never heard of the Co-Prosperity Sphere of which all were to become a part of, whether they liked it or not, freeing Asians of "Western" powers.
So what if poor Filipinos go hungry since they are used to that anyway.
So what if Filipinos lose their land to rich Chinese investors as they live in shacks anyway.
Well he was always a thug first and now he is going to get his and probably already has.
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Originally posted by tbm3fan View PostSounds more and more like Duerte is on the take vis a vis Xi. Well he was always a thug first and now he is going to get his and probably already has. Always thought he would sell out the Philippines for 40 pieces of silver by letting China have exclusive rights to the countries 200 mile EEZ. So what if Filipino fishermen can't fish in waters they have fished for a thousand years. So what if poor Filipinos go hungry since they are used to that anyway. So what if Filipinos lose their land to rich Chinese investors as they live in shacks anyway. So what if Chinese workers are starting to flood into the country for jobs since Filipinos are used to having no jobs.
Duterte-Xi fishing deal verbal — Palace | PH Inquirer | Jul 02 2019
There is no written agreement between President Rodrigo Duterte and Chinese President Xi Jinping that allows the Chinese to fish in Philippine waters, Malacaņang said on Monday.
Presidential spokesperson Salvador Panelo said the agreement referred to last week by the President was just a verbal understanding reached by the two leaders during a bilateral meeting in 2016.
The President mentioned the deal on Monday last week in explaining why he could not bar the Chinese from fishing in the West Philippine Sea, the waters within the Philippines’ 370-kilometer exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the heavily disputed South China Sea.
But Panelo said he agreed with the President that forcing the implementation of the exclusivity clause would be “courting danger.”
“China would not want that,” Panelo said.
China claims nearly the entire South China Sea, including the greater part of the Philippine EEZ and waters close to the shores of other Southeast Asian claimants in the strategic waterway — Brunei, Malaysia and Vietnam.
He said the agreement allowed Filipinos to fish again at Panatag Shoal, also known as Scarborough Shoal, which China blockaded after seizing it from the Philippines in 2012.
“Remember we weren’t allowed in Scarborough (Shoal) before. They were being shooed away. But after that (the agreement), things were OK,” Panelo said.
Lawmakers and maritime law experts said the deal was a violation of Article XII, Section 2 of the Constitution, which requires the state to protect Philippine territory and reserves the use of the country’s marine resources for Filipinos.
They said that such a deal needed congressional approval and that the President could be impeached for violating the exclusivity clause.
Vice President Leni Robredo, speaking on her radio program on Sunday, called for transparency from Malacaņang on the deal with Xi.
“[W]e do not know the terms of [the] agreement. If this is… a treaty, then it has to be approved by Senate,” Robredo said.
In 2016, however, the UN-backed Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, ruling on a challenge brought by the Philippines, declared China’s claim had no basis in international law and said it violated the Philippines’ sovereign right to fish and explore resources in its own exclusive economic zone.
China ignored the ruling and went on to build artificial islands on seven Philippine-claimed reefs in the South China Sea that it later developed into military outposts.
The President also set aside the ruling in exchange for aid, loans and investment from China.
Then we can say the purpose of the arbitration was to get a payout or some out of court settlement from China ? better be good.
What are those seven reefs, no fishing or prospecting for minerals by PH in the west worth then ?
President Duterte said Xi had warned that China would go to war if the Philippines insisted on its claim over the South China Sea.
Panelo on Monday said the exclusivity clause was the basis of the verbal understanding with Xi.
He dismissed Bayan Muna’s criticism that the agreement was disclosed only last week, saying it had been mentioned a couple of times in the past.
“We’ve been saying that even before, even myself. There was a deal, that’s why Scarborough Shoal was resolved,” Panelo said.
He, however, said the deal did not mean the Philippines would no longer assert its rights in the South China Sea.
“That’s the modus vivendi. We’re giving way as of now. But it doesn’t mean that we won’t invoke it in due time,” Panelo said, referring to the Hague court’s ruling.
An article i read from the 80s described China thus, a thief that breaks into your house and when you catch him says you can keep your wallet but he's taking your coat.Last edited by Double Edge; 02 Jul 19,, 05:14.
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Who cares what China wants, what matters here is what PH wants. Is PH sovereign or not ?!?!
Oh really ? Mr. strongman tells US to take a hike but is afraid of war with China.
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Originally posted by Pnoy View PostYou pretend that you care for what PH wants, but really you just want to bait the PH into conflict with China. Duterte is smart and he knows how to unmask deceivers like you. Stop using the Philippines as your pawn in your game of rivalry against China.
Why is this guy giving away PH's rights. On what authority ? his whims or people of PH cause i'm not seeing any involvement by the latter
I'd expect sovereign countries to stand up from their rights. That is if you intend to remain sovereign.
Your statement makes no sense. What does the US have to do with Duterte’s decision to not engage in a war against China? Should Duterte be somewhat Afraid of the US? Is the US going to overthrow him to place another American puppet in power? The US needs to pay up the money that they owe to the Philippines. Period.
China is not going to start a war with PH over these islands so why then is he misleading his people.
As i said before the Viets don't take this crap why should PH
You already have a statement from Bolton, why then cave into China's demands ?
NB: i'm still waiting for your intro !Last edited by Double Edge; 02 Jul 19,, 05:23.
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