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Thread: Chinese actions in the South China Seas

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    Chinese actions in the South China Seas

    https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...aef67c968321d0

    "..........In an official statement, the US Navy said Lanzhou came within 40m of the American vessel during the September 30 incident.
    It said one of its ships almost collided with a Chinese warship in the South China Sea, in an “unsafe and unprofessional manoeuvre”.

    China claims most of the strategic waterway and has built islands on reefs and equipped them with military facilities such as airstrips, radar domes and missile systems. ........"

    At long last. Its about time China pushed back against America's bulling tactics of using gunboat diplomacy. They should continue to do it more often.

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    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Bomb USN vessels in the area. The hegemonic Americans need to be taught a lesson. What we need is WWIII. Enough already. Just so that you know, Americans faked the moon landing. When it comes to martial skills, the Chinese don't need guns to fight the Americans, kung-fu would do. Decadent western democracy is failing big time. America is on the decline. 9/11 was orchestrated by the CIA. All Americans are obese. FOOK U USA!
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    Arise, you who refuse to be slaves!
    With our flesh and blood,
    let us build a new Great Wall!
    As China faces its greatest peril
    From each one the urgent call to action comes forth.
    Arise! Arise! Arise!
    Millions of but one heart
    Braving the enemies' fire! March on!
    Braving the enemies' fire! March on!
    March on! March, march on!
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Bomb USN vessels in the area. The hegemonic Americans need to be taught a lesson. What we need is WWIII. Enough already. Just so that you know, Americans faked the moon landing. When it comes to martial skills, the Chinese don't need guns to fight the Americans, kung-fu would do. Decadent western democracy is failing big time. America is on the decline. 9/11 was orchestrated by the CIA. All Americans are obese. FOOK U USA!
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Arise, you who refuse to be slaves!
    With our flesh and blood,
    let us build a new Great Wall!
    As China faces its greatest peril
    From each one the urgent call to action comes forth.
    Arise! Arise! Arise!
    Millions of but one heart
    Braving the enemies' fire! March on!
    Braving the enemies' fire! March on!
    March on! March, march on!
    That's so funny. If I could I would give your posts multiple likes.However you have missed out one important point.The USA is not opposed to and has actually invaded countries to overthrow democratically elected govts. See marines invade Guatemala. 1954

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    Senior Contributor Red Team's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    At long last. Its about time China pushed back against America's bulling tactics of using gunboat diplomacy. They should continue to do it more often.
    Name:  1424328_352069154939117_554963120_n.jpg
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    "Draft beer, not people."

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    No China does not need to bomb U.S naval units. All she has to do is to anchor a few cargo ships or tankers around the atolls for U.S naval units on FoNops detail to bump into them. ROFL

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    China claims most of the strategic waterway and has built islands on reefs and equipped them with military facilities such as airstrips, radar domes and missile systems. ........"
    That's the problem isn't it.

    Short of a war those reefs and whatnot grabbed are China's to keep. People say what good are these FONOPS then . They do not deter China at all.

    But you need to assert yourself there and this is where the FONOPS come in. The French & the British are joining in.

    A french carrier passing through the area got radioed by the Chinese, French just turned off their transponder and continued.

    And so it goes on...

    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    At long last. Its about time China pushed back against America's bulling tactics of using gunboat diplomacy. They should continue to do it more often.
    Why does China care, those islands are Chinese right : )
    Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Oct 18, at 10:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    That's the problem isn't it.

    Short of a war those reefs and whatnot grabbed are China's to keep. People say what good are these FONOPS then . They do not deter China at all.

    But you need to assert yourself there and this is where the FONOPS come in. The French & the British are joining in.

    A french carrier passing through the area got radioed by the Chinese, French just turned off their transponder and continued.

    And so it goes on...



    Why does China care, those islands are Chinese right : )
    Indeed those islands belong to China.The European Court has no jurisdiction on the matter. Only the UN courts should decide if asked. Now the US iis having a tantrum and is organising multiple military exercises as a show of force because a PLAN captain poked them in them in the eye.

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    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    Indeed those islands belong to China.The European Court has no jurisdiction on the matter. Only the UN courts should decide if asked. Now the US iis having a tantrum and is organising multiple military exercises as a show of force because a PLAN captain poked them in them in the eye.
    South China Sea: Court rules in favor of Philippines over China

    UN is an American tool used to intimidate weak countries. UN should be disbanded. China should leave the WTO, UN, NSG and all other capitalist corrupt western international organizations. China instead, should form its own international organization with like-minded countries like Pakistan, Somalia, Russia etc. CCP should expel all American and EU diplomats, businesses from China. China will fight America till the last shark in the SCS remain.
    Last edited by Oracle; 06 Oct 18, at 15:00.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    No China does not need to bomb U.S naval units. All she has to do is to anchor a few cargo ships or tankers around the atolls for U.S naval units on FoNops detail to bump into them. ROFL
    You do know that those artifical islands do not have fresh waters sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    Indeed those islands belong to China.The European Court has no jurisdiction on the matter. Only the UN courts should decide if asked. Now the US iis having a tantrum and is organising multiple military exercises as a show of force because a PLAN captain poked them in them in the eye.
    Both China and the US have the veto, meaning China can veto any decision against Chinese claims and the US can veto any decision for Chinese claims. Besides, it would be a bribing contest to see who can bribe the most members in the UNSC, not a legal decision based on merit.

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    Indeed those islands belong to China.
    Then how are the Americans bullying you then ? they're doing what they've always been doing for decades now. The frequency might have increased but intent remains the same.

    Why are you at all worked up. Why must China stand up

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    South China Sea: Court rules in favor of Philippines over China

    UN is an American tool used to intimidate weak countries. UN should be disbanded. China should leave the WTO, UN, NSG and all other capitalist corrupt western international organizations. China instead, should form its own international organization with like-minded countries like Pakistan, Somalia, Russia etc. CCP should expel all American and EU diplomats, businesses from China. China will fight America till the last shark in the SCS remain.
    You seem to think that everything China does is bad while everything America does is good. I couldnt care a less that you lseem to like playing "Uncle Tom" to the U.S. and want India l to join Australia and Japan as her vassel states.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Then how are the Americans bullying you then ? they're doing what they've always been doing for decades now. The frequency might have increased but intent remains the same.

    Why are you at all worked up. Why must China stand up
    They are the actions of a bygone era. China must stand up and push back against false claims made by U.S.

    The U.S. suggest that China could blockade the sea lanes. Now why as a exporting Country would china want to blockade her own sea routes. and no Captain of a 250000 to container/oil ship in his right mind would sail their large boats anywhere close to shallow waters where the U.S. navy are conducting their Fonops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    You do know that those artifical islands do not have fresh waters sources.

    Both China and the US have the veto, meaning China can veto any decision against Chinese claims and the US can veto any decision for Chinese claims. Besides, it would be a bribing contest to see who can bribe the most members in the UNSC, not a legal decision based on merit.
    I recently read that China has claimed to have found fresh water one of those islands.


    Judges on the PCA can be bribed as well. Anyway the whole thing was a put up job by the U.S. as the Phillipines had already agreed to bilateral talks on the issue.


    BTW I recently came across a comment you made suggesting that the Chinese , in reference to the Yuan class of sub have not learnt much in designing subs.
    I think they will get there like their 055 class destroyer.
    Unless you are unaware, heresan article about Chinese subs during an interview with a U.S. sub commander.

    US submarines are better than China's 'by far,' but in a war that may not matter

    China has invested heavily in its submarines over the past 20 years, but US subs remain superior.
    But time, location, and numbers could help China mitigate the US’s advantages.
    China also has an edge in a “grey-zone situation,” in which it can ramp up tensions while staying short of open conflict.
    The US and others around the Pacific have watched warily as China has boosted its submarine force over the last 20 years, building a modern, flexible force that now has more total ships than the US.

    US subs remain far better than their Chinese counterparts, but in a conflict, numbers and geography may help China mitigate some of the US and its partners’ advantages.

    Naval modernisation is part of Beijing’s “growing emphasis on the maritime domain,” the US Defence Department said in its annual report on Chinese military power.

    As operational demands on China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy have increased, subs have become a high priority – and one that could counter the US Navy’s mastery of the sea.

    The force currently numbers 56 subs – four nuclear-powered missile subs, five nuclear-powered attack subs, and 47 diesel-powered attack subs – and is likely grow to between 69 and 78 subs by 2020, according to the Pentagon.

    China has built 10 nuclear-powered subs over the past 15 years. Its four operational Jin-class missile boats “represent China’s first credible, seabased nuclear deterrent,” the Pentagon report said.

    In most likely conflict scenarios, however, those nuclear-powered subs would have limited utility, said Bryan Clark, a senior fellow at the Center for Budgetary and Strategic Assessments.

    “They’re relatively loud, pretty easy to track, and don’t really have significant capability other than they can launch land-attack cruise missiles, and they don’t have very many of those,” Clark said. “They’re more of a kind of threat the Chinese might use to maybe do an attack on a … more distant target like Guam or Hawaii.”

    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/u...matter-inChina has invested heavily in its submarines over the past 20 years, but US subs remain superior.
    But time, location, and numbers could help China mitigate the US’s advantages.
    China also has an edge in a “grey-zone situation,” in which it can ramp up tensions while staying short of open conflict.
    The US and others around the Pacific have watched warily as China has boosted its submarine force over the last 20 years, building a modern, flexible force that now has more total ships than the US.

    US subs remain far better than their Chinese counterparts, but in a conflict, numbers and geography may help China mitigate some of the US and its partners’ advantages.

    Naval modernisation is part of Beijing’s “growing emphasis on the maritime domain,” the US Defence Department said in its annual report on Chinese military power.

    As operational demands on China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy have increased, subs have become a high priority – and one that could counter the US Navy’s mastery of the sea.

    The force currently numbers 56 subs – four nuclear-powered missile subs, five nuclear-powered attack subs, and 47 diesel-powered attack subs – and is likely grow to between 69 and 78 subs by 2020, according to the Pentagon.

    China has built 10 nuclear-powered subs over the past 15 years. Its four operational Jin-class missile boats “represent China’s first credible, seabased nuclear deterrent,” the Pentagon report said.

    In most likely conflict scenarios, however, those nuclear-powered subs would have limited utility, said Bryan Clark, a senior fellow at the Center for Budgetary and Strategic Assessments.

    “They’re relatively loud, pretty easy to track, and don’t really have significant capability other than they can launch land-attack cruise missiles, and they don’t have very many of those,” Clark said. “They’re more of a kind of threat the Chinese might use to maybe do an attack on a … more distant target like Guam or Hawaii.”-a-conflict.

    Conventionally powered subs are the “more important part of their submarine force,” Clark said, particularly ones that can launch anti-ship missiles and those that use air-independent propulsion, or AIP, which allows nonnuclear subs to operate without access to atmospheric oxygen, replacing or augmenting diesel-electric systems.

    Since the mid-1990s, China has built 13 Song-class diesel-electric attack subs and bought 12 Russian-made Kilo-class subs – eight of which can fire anti-ship cruise missiles.

    Kilos are conventional diesel subs, which means they need to surface periodically.

    “Even with that, they’re a good, sturdy, reliable submarine that carries long-range anti-ship missiles,” Clark said. On a shorter operation where a Kilo-class sub “can avoid snorkelling, it could … sneak up on you with a long-range attack, so that’s a concern for the US.”

    China has also built 17 Yuan-class diesel-electric, air-independent-powered attack subs over the past two decades, a total expected to rise to 20 by 2020, according to the Pentagon.

    “The Yuan AIP submarine is very good,” said Clark, a former US Navy submarine officer and strategist.

    For the duration of a deployment that it might normally take, which is two or three weeks, where it can stay on its AIP plant and never have to come up and snorkel, they’re very good,” Clark added. “That’s a big concern, I think, for US and Japanese policymakers.”

    Yuan-class boats can threaten surface forces with both torpedoes and anti-ship missiles.

    For US anti-submarine-warfare practitioners in the western Pacific, Clark said, “it’s the Yuan they generally point to as being their target of concern, because it does offer this ability to attack US ships and [is] hard to track and there may be few opportunities to engage it.”


    Despite concerns China’s current diesel-electric subs inspire, they have liabilities.

    s quiet as they are, they are still not as quiet as a US nuclear-powered submarine operating in its quietest mode. They don’t have the same endurance as US subs and need to surface periodically. China’s sub crews also lack the depth of experience of their American counterparts.

    “Chinese submarines are not … as good as the US submarines, by far,” Clark said.

    China’s subs have made excursions into the Indian Ocean and done anti-piracy operations in waters off East Africa, but they mostly operate around the first island chain, which refers to major islands west of the East Asian mainland and encompasses the East and South China Seas.

    Chinese subs also venture into the Philippine Sea, where they could strike at US ships, Clark said.

    Much of the first island chain is within range of Chinese land-based planes and missiles, which are linchpins in Beijing’s anti-access/area denial strategy. It’s in that area where the US and its partners could see their advantages thwarted.

    “Now the Chinese have the advantage of numbers, because they have a large number of submarines that can operate, and they have only got a small area in which they need to conduct operations,” Clark said.

    China could “flood the zone” with subs good enough to “maybe overwhelm US and Japanese [anti-submarine warfare] capabilities.”

    The anti-submarine-warfare capabilities of the US and its partners may also be constrained.

    US subs would likely be tasked with a range of missions, like land attacks or surveillance, rather than focusing on attacking Chinese subs, leaving much of the submarine-hunting to surface and air forces – exposing them to Chinese planes and missiles.

    “The stuff we use for ASW is the stuff that’s most vulnerable to the Chinese anti-access approach, and you’re doing it close proximity to China, so you could get stuck and not be able to engage their submarines before they get out,” Clark said.
    Last edited by Funtastic; 06 Oct 18, at 23:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    I recently read that China has claimed to have found fresh water one of those islands.
    Nowhere near enough to support combat operations which means that the Chinese must bring in fresh water, fuel, munitions, food to conduct combat operations. And you just conviently sunk the cargo ships needed to bring in those supplies and block any other cargo ships from coming in because you blocked their passage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    Judges on the PCA can be bribed as well. Anyway the whole thing was a put up job by the U.S. as the Phillipines had already agreed to bilateral talks on the issue.
    Does not matter in anyway. Both China and the US can veto any UNSCR that they don't like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    US submarines are better than China's 'by far,' but in a war that may not matter
    You're right there. The Chinese have zero clue in naval task group operations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    China has invested heavily in its submarines over the past 20 years, but US subs remain superior.
    But time, location, and numbers could help China mitigate the US’s advantages.
    China also has an edge in a “grey-zone situation,” in which it can ramp up tensions while staying short of open conflict.
    The US and others around the Pacific have watched warily as China has boosted its submarine force over the last 20 years, building a modern, flexible force that now has more total ships than the US.

    US subs remain far better than their Chinese counterparts, but in a conflict, numbers and geography may help China mitigate some of the US and its partners’ advantages.
    I've heard this in the past 30 years and I have yet to see the Chinese to reach the level that was on par with the Soviets in the 70s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    Naval modernisation is part of Beijing’s “growing emphasis on the maritime domain,” the US Defence Department said in its annual report on Chinese military power.

    As operational demands on China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy have increased, subs have become a high priority – and one that could counter the US Navy’s mastery of the sea.

    The force currently numbers 56 subs – four nuclear-powered missile subs, five nuclear-powered attack subs, and 47 diesel-powered attack subs – and is likely grow to between 69 and 78 subs by 2020, according to the Pentagon.

    China has built 10 nuclear-powered subs over the past 15 years. Its four operational Jin-class missile boats “represent China’s first credible, seabased nuclear deterrent,” the Pentagon report said.
    Now, if they only are allowed to patrol with nukes on board.

    As for the rest of your post, it reads like a budget demand. The big scary Chinese are going to put us in a disadvantage. We need to spend big time to counter them.

    I'm way too old to fall for those tricks no do I care.

  15. #15
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    They are the actions of a bygone era.
    Point is the same isn't it. These actions did not trouble China before. So what has changed ?

    China must stand up and push back against false claims made by U.S. The U.S. suggest that China could blockade the sea lanes. Now why as a exporting Country would china want to blockade her own sea routes. and no Captain of a 250000 to container/oil ship in his right mind would sail their large boats anywhere close to shallow waters where the U.S. navy are conducting their Fonops.
    Well if you react then it strengthens that suspicion isn't it.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 07 Oct 18, at 03:01.

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