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Thread: Chinese actions in the South China Seas

  1. #61
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    Geez, thats what i have been arguing, if its been denied historical rights, then because none has owned the island before, the China's other option is to invoke TN and claim them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    You must be daft. Historic claims means that China owns these waters in the past. New lands means no one has owned these waters before. You either owned it before or you discover land that no one else owned before, including the Chinese.

    That is what Ive been arguing. If China has been historical claims then she can claim them by invoking TN

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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    Geez, thats what i have been arguing, if its been denied historical rights, then because none has owned the island before, the China's other option is to invoke TN and claim them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    That is what Ive been arguing. If China has been historical claims then she can claim them by invoking TN
    Well, the Chinese are NOT using the TN arguement. It is not a matter of what you want the Chinese to do. It is what they in fact are doing that counts. The first lesson in China watching. Stop projecting your thoughts and your thinking into Chinese decisions. Understand the Chinese decision and then explain things from there. Not what you think they will do but in fact what they are doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Well, the Chinese are NOT using the TN arguement. It is not a matter of what you want the Chinese to do. It is what they in fact are doing that counts. The first lesson in China watching. Stop projecting your thoughts and your thinking into Chinese decisions. Understand the Chinese decision and then explain things from there. Not what you think they will do but in fact what they are doing.

    Ok Ill Try, However I was only offering up TN as a suggestion refer post 36 you should have pointed out my flawed approch then

    Thats easily solved. All China has to do is claim ownership on what they occupy under the laws of Terra Nullis. ( that is how Captain Cook claimed Australia for Britain despite the place being occupied by Aborignies)
    Last edited by Funtastic; 11 Oct 18, at 04:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    Ok Ill Try, However I was only offering up TN as a suggestion refer post 36 you should have pointed out my flawed approch then
    And give up a potential chew toy? I'll give you this. You're not afraid to learn.

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    [QUOTE=tbm3fan;1046101]
    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post

    So I take it that every last Tibetan and Uyghur is a terrorist is the company line? Cheap out...
    Of course not.
    Re Tibet

    Its only a minority who are protesting and i would not be surprised if a fair number have links to the privleged past when Tibet was a feudal society or ldecendants of people who were trained by the CIA during the up rising of the 50/60/s

    Xinjiang
    It is made up of many minority groups and its only elements within the Uyghur that have a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post

    Ooo, notice your American term "slam dunk." Do you also know the word "toast" as in a small isolate made man island disappearing?
    Yup.and despite the propaganda and they are not stupid, Beijing knows they can be easily taken out as well. So why are they intending to spend billions more on making it bigger, probably quadrupling the size of those islands.
    Last edited by Funtastic; 11 Oct 18, at 06:57.

  8. #68
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    So why are they intending to spend billions more on making it bigger, probably quadrupling the size of those islands.
    Area denial in peace time. Need to pass through then ask for permission.

    This is why there are FONOPS

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Spratly & scarborough are too far


    Attachment 46971


    Scarborough shoal (Seriously? why is there even an argument about this one !!)
    Attachment 46973

    Paracel is about 220 miles away
    Attachment 46972
    You really think the Chinese believe in arguments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I don't know as yet where those artificial islands are..
    Those islands that China has built and militarised are in the Spratly Islands archipelago. They are Fiery cross reef, Mischief reef, and Subi reef. Below are the distances from Hainan, China.

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    EEZ is 200 nmi or 370 km. Even by autocratic imagination, they don't belong to China.

    Colonel, the Chinese have built water and fuel storage on all 3 of those islands.

    If one goes by the map of this article - SAMs And Anti-Ship Missiles Are Now Guarding China's Man-Made South China Sea Islands - there are 8 Chinese outposts, of which I believe 3 has been occupied already, and 5 remains.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Colonel, the Chinese have built water and fuel storage on all 3 of those islands.

    If one goes by the map of this article - SAMs And Anti-Ship Missiles Are Now Guarding China's Man-Made South China Sea Islands - there are 8 Chinese outposts, of which I believe 3 has been occupied already, and 5 remains.
    Logistics. The bane of any modern military.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Logistics. The bane of any modern military.
    Why are the Chinese bent on these ridiculous claims then. Gas, fishing? Simply challenging the USN is not the reason why the Chinese are there, and PLAN knows that too.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Area denial in peace time. Need to pass through then ask for permission.

    This is why there are FONOPS
    That does not seem like good value for moneyand pissing off the most important countries while doing it.

    Incorporating economics, military, and geopoltics consider how the Chinese might see things unfolding over the next decade or so.

    WAB-OOE suggested logistics-. Thats true but under what scenario and who does it apply to?
    Last edited by Funtastic; 11 Oct 18, at 23:10.

  14. #74
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    That does not seem like good value for moneyand pissing off the most important countries while doing it.
    Short of a war those islands will be beefed up more. Nobody is going to directly do anything to specifically counter

    In war time i've no idea how defendable those islands are. Which is when they are of questionable value. Whatever temporary tactical advantage will be cancelled when necessary

    Incorporating economics, military, and geopoltics consider how the Chinese might see things unfolding over the next decade or so.
    Continue to do more of the same. Assert away. But there will be resistance from others. What more can China do isn't clear to me.

    The FONOPS will continue unless China escalates and i'm doubting that will happen. This is an era of hostile peace. So whether those island push navies out further than otherwise is doubtful as they're not deterred presently. If that's the case then i don't know how China can gain from non-military traffic as they do not control the area.

    They can interfere with any minerals exploitation by running foregn competitors out of the area and be the only partner the neighbours have to use

    WAB-OOE suggested logistics-. Thats true but under what scenario and who does it apply to?
    China i presume to defend those islands
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Oct 18, at 18:27.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    In war time i've no idea how defendable those islands are. Which is when they are of questionable value. Whatever temporary tactical advantage will be cancelled when necessary
    The Chinese have not conducted any exercises using those islands. I would have assumed that these airstrips would have been made for combat operations but we have yet to see any take offs/landings/reload fuel and ammo/take off training.

    However, those islands are way too small for an actual military base. There's insufficent housing for mechanical and engineering works required. At best, they're way stations.

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