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Thread: Chinese actions in the South China Seas

  1. #151
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    The Phillipinos can chase this militia away with their navy. Question is should they & then will they.

  2. #152
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    FONOPS continue as usual

    Two U.S. warships sail in disputed South China Sea | Reuters | May 06 2019

    The U.S. guided-missile destroyers Preble and Chung Hoon traveled within 12 nautical miles of Gaven and Johnson Reefs in the Spratly Islands, a U.S. military spokesman told Reuters.

    Commander Clay Doss, a spokesman for the Seventh Fleet, said the “innocent passage” aimed “to challenge excessive maritime claims and preserve access to the waterways as governed by international law”.

    The U.S. military has a long-standing position that its operations are carried out throughout the world, including areas claimed by allies, and that they are separate from political considerations.

    The operation was the latest attempt to counter what Washington sees as Beijing’s efforts to limit freedom of navigation in the strategic waters, where Chinese, Japanese and some Southeast Asian navies operate.
    China claims almost all of the strategic South China Sea and frequently lambasts the United States and its allies over naval operations near Chinese-occupied islands.

    Last month, China’s navy chief said freedom of navigation should not be used to infringe upon the rights of other nations.

    The freedom of navigation operation comes weeks after a major naval parade marking 70 years since the founding of the Chinese navy. The United States sent only a low-level delegation to the Chinese navy anniversary events.

  3. #153
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    What's on the radio during these FONOPS, clip from 2015


  4. #154
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  5. #155
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    The US Navy's top admiral told his Chinese counterpart earlier this year that provocations by militia vessels would be treated the same as those carried out by Chinese navy warships.

    "By injecting greater uncertainty about how the US will respond to China's grey-zone coercion, the US hopes to deter Chinese destabilizing maritime behaviour, including its reliance on coast guard and maritime militia vessels to intimidate its smaller neighbours," Bonnie Glaser, a China expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, told the Financial Times.
    High time they did this. It's in response to the below

    last week, a suspected Chinese vessel allegedly rammed a Philippine ship in the South China Sea, sinking it and then sailing off as nearly two dozen Filipino fishermen fought for their lives in open water.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    High time they did this. It's in response to the below
    Unfortunately for the warmongers here, Duterte is cool headed and is not eager for more conflict with China

    Duterte invokes 2016 fishing agreement with China

    Claiming he could not keep Chinese fishermen out of Philippine waters, President Duterte on Wednesday cited a deal he struck with Chinese President Xi Jinping in 2016, allowing the Chinese access to the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the South China Sea.

    https://globalnation.inquirer.net/17...#ixzz5s6AhIRpQ
    Duterte is wise not to allow America to use the Philippines as an expendable pawn in its war against China )

    Duterte: Seeking US help in sea row to bring PH closer to war with China

    “I have to protect the interest of my country, the very life of the Filipino. One hundred ten million. America, bakit ka ba magsabi ng…bakit tawagin mo America? That will all the more bring us to the verge of war,” Duterte said in an interview in Malacañang.

    https://globalnation.inquirer.net/17...#ixzz5s6BPbBfB

  7. #157
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pnoy View Post
    Unfortunately for the warmongers here, Duterte is cool headed and is not eager for more conflict with China



    Duterte is wise not to allow America to use the Philippines as an expendable pawn in its war against China )
    Nice, how many Filipino boats should China sink until Duterte figures out who wants the conflict here ?

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Nice, how many Filipino boats should China sink until Duterte figures out who wants the conflict here ?
    The problem is that some people who wants to pit the Philippines against China is blowing the whole incident out of proportion. Duterte’s actions is meant to De-escalate the incident from turning into a bigger one, which is what the United States is probably wishing to happen. If the Philippines choose to take another aggressive stance against China, like what the previous president did before Duterte was elected, then the Philippines will be forced again to seek protection from the US, and will be DICTATED again by Washington on how it should run its own business. Besides, right now, after improvements in its relations with China, the Philippines has seen a massive influx of Chinese investments in its infrastructure, something the US failed to do despite being the Philippines’ close ally since world war ll. Perhaps Filipinos has also witnessed that being an American pawn in its geopolitical affairs dont do countries anything good. Ukraine and Georgia are good examples. Having positive relations with your neighboring countries brings in more growth and prosperity.

  9. #159
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pnoy View Post
    The problem is that some people who wants to pit the Philippines against China is blowing the whole incident out of proportion. Duterte’s actions is meant to De-escalate the incident from turning into a bigger one, which is what the United States is probably wishing to happen. If the Philippines choose to take another aggressive stance against China, like what the previous president did before Duterte was elected, then the Philippines will be forced again to seek protection from the US, and will be DICTATED again by Washington on how it should run its own business.
    Why does he need protection from the US in the first place ? a fillipino boat was sunk in fillipino waters by a Chinese vessel.

    And then China was taken to ICJ and lost. From what i can see why is China meddling in these areas.

    US is not making sovereign claims in the Philippines, China is.

    China is the only PITA neighbour Philippines has, relation with all other neighbours are good.

    Besides, right now, after improvements in its relations with China, the Philippines has seen a massive influx of Chinese investments in its infrastructure, something the US failed to do despite being the Philippines’ close ally since world war ll. Perhaps Filipinos has also witnessed that being an American pawn in its geopolitical affairs dont do countries anything good. Ukraine and Georgia are good examples. Having positive relations with your neighboring countries brings in more growth and prosperity.
    anything confirmed or just promises ?

    https://twitter.com/USEmbassyPH/stat...43466704408582

    https://share.america.gov/us-develop...ids-debt-trap/

    We've seen this story before, haven't we. Invest in some money losing project with the intent to grab territory. So becoming a Chinese puppet with land bequeathed to China is even worse then isn't it.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...stment/588829/

    And valuable territory it is.

    Philippines and Vietnam form the first defence to blocking China's entrance into the Malacca strait.

    Positive relations with China ? heh let China surrender claims on scarborough shoal first.

    No? then Duterte should tell China to get lost.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 28 Jun 19, at 12:17.

  10. #160
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    Why does he need protection from the US in the first place ? a fillipino boat was sunk in fillipino waters by a Chinese vessel.
    Nice twisting of logic, Let me answer you with a counter question, why does Ukraine, Georgia, Baltics, Poland, etc, need protection from the US in the first place? in the event of worsening relations with China, the Philippines will be forced to svck American protection and in essence will be handing over the country's political process to Washington's will. Filipinos dont want this to happen anymore. That is why Duterte continues to enjoy widespread support from the people. Filipinos are tired to being told what to do or how to run their country by westerners.

    China is the only PITA neighbour Philippines has, relation with all other neighbours are good.
    Philippines continues to have territorial dispute with Malaysia over Sabah, and Malaysia has supported islamist groups in southern Philippines. If the US is genuinely concerned about Philippine sovereignty and territorial integrity, why aren't the Americans raising a fuss about this issue to the international community? Not once did we heard about the United States voicing support for the Philippines when it comes to its territorial dispute with Malaysia. but when the Philippines has dispute with China, suddenly the United States is in full support of the Philippines. We all know why, China is a global competitor of the US, Malaysia is not. therefore, if it doesnt suit their needs, the USA will turn a blind eye, it means US is not genuinely concerned about Philippine territorial integrity.

    Quoting materials from American sources? obviously they will publish anything to dispute the benefits of Chinese investments in many countries. Infrastructure development is only starting to pick up in the Philippines after closer relations with China, on the other hand, Philippines has been allies with the United States for decades, but where are the infrastructure assistance the United States provided in the 60s? 70s? 80 or 90s?

    Philippines and Vietnam form the first defence to blocking China's entrance into the Malacca strait.

    Positive relations with China ? heh let China surrender claims on scarborough shoal first.

    No? then Duterte should tell China to get lost.
    You are not even Filipino, who are you to tell Filipinos what we should do? Filipinos do not wish to take part in this so-called Defense against China in the Malacca strait. deal with them yourselves, dont involve us with your petty politicking. Telling Duterte what to do, especially by a foreigner, is what he dislikes most.

  11. #161
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pnoy View Post
    Nice twisting of logic, Let me answer you with a counter question, why does Ukraine, Georgia, Baltics, Poland, etc, need protection from the US in the first place? in the event of worsening relations with China, the Philippines will be forced to svck American protection and in essence will be handing over the country's political process to Washington's will. Filipinos dont want this to happen anymore. That is why Duterte continues to enjoy widespread support from the people. Filipinos are tired to being told what to do or how to run their country by westerners.
    You did not address China's aggressive actions in the SCS. China thinks those seas belong to China. Vietnam does not even get a 12 mile territorial water exclusion zone let alone an EEZ. I applaud Vietnam for their actions. They won't take any shit from China or any one else for that matter.

    What i heard put Duterte into office was the law & order situation. Drugs. Bolosnaro is doing the same thing, difference is he hasn't got a problem with the US.

    Philippines continues to have territorial dispute with Malaysia over Sabah, and Malaysia has supported islamist groups in southern Philippines. If the US is genuinely concerned about Philippine sovereignty and territorial integrity, why aren't the Americans raising a fuss about this issue to the international community? Not once did we heard about the United States voicing support for the Philippines when it comes to its territorial dispute with Malaysia. but when the Philippines has dispute with China, suddenly the United States is in full support of the Philippines. We all know why, China is a global competitor of the US, Malaysia is not. therefore, if it doesnt suit their needs, the USA will turn a blind eye, it means US is not genuinely concerned about Philippine territorial integrity.
    And Philippines is free to take Malaysia to the Hague. Why didn't they. No, they took China there. Why ? Malaysia does not sink Filippino boats. Does not send militias to harass Filipino fishermen who are rightfully fishing in their own EEZ. Clearly, China is the far bigger threat here.


    Quoting materials from American sources? obviously they will publish anything to dispute the benefits of Chinese investments in many countries. Infrastructure development is only starting to pick up in the Philippines after closer relations with China, on the other hand, Philippines has been allies with the United States for decades, but where are the infrastructure assistance the United States provided in the 60s? 70s? 80 or 90s?
    benefits of chinese investments ? why is there is this push back in so many countries then. Tin pot dictators or corrupt leaders saddling their countries with insurmountable debts.

    I am still waiting for you to substantiate these Chinese investments. Got any proof or just statements of intent : )

    As of 2017, Japan is the top investor in the Philippines. China does not even make the top 5. So what has China been doing all these years.

    Name:  PH FDI inflow.JPG
Views: 36
Size:  33.9 KB

    Oh and in case you don't know. China's completion rate is like 12% globally for these projects. So what they promise and what actually shows up ? big difference ; )


    You are not even Filipino, who are you to tell Filipinos what we should do? Filipinos do not wish to take part in this so-called Defense against China in the Malacca strait. deal with them yourselves, dont involve us with your petty politicking. Telling Duterte what to do, especially by a foreigner, is what he dislikes most.
    Where is your introduction message ? who says you solely represent Filippinos ? Is the Philippines still a democracy or are dissenting views no longer welcome. Are you even Filippino or a 50 center ?

    Indian commentators called out Duterte years ago, for what he is, a loud mouth who is selling out to China. if you think this will go unchallenged by other powers in the region then you are in for a surprise.

    We see a similar pattern with some of our neighbours too, bash India like Duterte did with the US then cosy up with China. I've always wondered why one preceded the other.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 28 Jun 19, at 15:52.

  12. #162
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    You did not address China's aggressive actions in the SCS
    SCS is a disputed territory to start with, besides, the US is a powerful country already after WWll, right then why didn't they recognize these islands are part of the Philippines or Vietnam? Why is the United States suddenly urging other countries in proximity to the SCS to raise their own claims? The timing of American actions in the SCS makes their true intentions very clear. America hates China because now the Chinese has the capacity to topple American global hegemony and America is unhappy about it.

    And Philippines is free to take Malaysia to the Hague. Why didn't they. No, they took China there. Why ? Malaysia does not sink Filippino boats. Does not send militias to harass Filipino fishermen who are rightfully fishing in their own EEZ. Clearly, China is the far bigger threat here.
    Because the previous Philippine president, Aquino, is an American stooge. Just like other American puppets like Poroshenko or Saakashvili, he will do every inflammatory actions to sour relations between the Philippines and America's enemies, in this case, it is China. bringing China to the Hague is a prime example of this.
    Malaysia supported Islamist cells in the southern island of Mindanao. These islamists killed thousands of Filipinos and their actions made the security situation in the south very volatile. Meanwhile, no Filipino lives have been lost in its SCS dispute with China. Explain again how China is the far bigger threat in here.

    benefits of chinese investments ? why is there is this push back in so many countries then. Tin pot dictators or corrupt leaders saddling their countries with insurmountable debts.
    Just because CNN or Fox news made an inflammatory editorial about how countries are allegedly pushing back against Chinese investments doesn't mean it is true. There are lots of sources that substantiate my claim of beneficial Chinese investments in other countries. you just have to open your eyes and stop turning a blind eye to these exciting developments.

    According to Assome Aminata Diatta, Senegal's Minister of Trade and SMEs, China is an ideal partner for Africa to improve its capacity building when China is seeking higher-quality growth driven by innovation.

    Bringing modern production lines to Africa, especially in the special economic zones, will likely provide tens of millions of jobs for Africa, accelerate its industrialization and improve the trade structure between China and Africa, Diatta said.

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/201..._138179241.htm

    As of 2017, Japan is the top investor in the Philippines. China does not even make the top 5. So what has China been doing all these years.
    Do you have an amnesia? Relations between the Philippines and China only improved AFTER Duterte was elected. During the Aquino puppet regime, the country's policies are generally anti-Chinese, so why would China invest back then in a hostile country? Meanwhile, Japan has been a very wealthy country since the 80s. they should have given the Philippines more cash and help to build up its infrastructure, what has Japan been doing all those years?

    Also your data is outdated, is that intentional? Because according to new data from an official Philippine government website, China is the Philippines' largest investor country in 2018
    https://www.dti.gov.ph/resources/sta...ed-investments

    Is the Philippines still a democracy or are dissenting views no longer welcome.
    Do you have a problem with Dictatorships? you even complained about Tin pot dictators and corrupt leaders,. But on the other hand you applaud Vietnam, another communist one party dictatorship, I guess for you it doesn't really matter as long as they pursue anti-Chinese policies.

    Indian commentators called out Duterte years ago, for what he is, a loud mouth who is selling out to China.
    I dont have a problem with India, on the contrary, both India and the Philippines face similar threats from Islamist terrorists, and there is a huge potential for cooperation between the two countries when it comes to security and economic ties. But dont drag the Philippines with whatever problems you have with China. Duterte continues to enjoy strong public approval ratings, this only reflects the strong support Filipinos have for his independent foreign policy.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pnoy View Post
    SCS is a disputed territory to start with,
    Nope. Not quite. SCS is not a disputed territory. Read post # 69 of this same thread. Also, I don't see an introduction from you yet. So, please go in here, and introduce yourself. This is the second time I'm requesting you for an introduction.
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    I dont know why my later posts seem to have been deleted but i would like to point out again that the Philippines does not want to take part in America’s ‘Containment Plan’ against China and as long as Duterte is in power this will continue to be the official policy. But we Filipinos are always open for negotiations, if the US desperately needs our help, they will have to pay the Philippines a premium price to get support.

  15. #165
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    US doesn't need Philippines to contain China, the USN can do it all by itself. So you can forget the blackmailing rhetoric.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

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