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Thread: Chinese actions in the South China Seas

  1. #136
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    This one is from 2013. The Indian army & airforce might have issues acquiring tech but the navy seems to be doing better.

    Indian Navy to have 200 warships in next 10 years | TOI | Nov 13 2013

    PTI | Updated: Nov 13, 2013, 18:29 IST

    ON BOARD INS SATPURA: Indian Navy would have 200 warships in another 10 years, with three aircraft carriers in each of the three naval commands, for which orders have already been given to various docks in the country, a senior official said here on Wednesday.

    "Right now, we have 136 ships and we are targeting 200 in the next 10 years. All our docks in our country are full of orders," Rear Admiral Atul Kumar Jain, flag officer commanding in chief, Eastern Naval Command told reporters here.

    The Navy was looking at making destroyers and frigates, he said. "Right now, we have only one landing platform dock (LPD) INS Jalashwa. We are going for four more LPDs."

    He said INS Vikramaditya, which India bought from Russia would be inducted into the Navy later this month.

    "Once it comes, INS Vikramaditya would be under the control of INS Karwar in Karnataka. Another aircraft carrier is in the making in Kochi now. Once it is commissioned, we will position it in Visakhapatnam," he said.

    Indian Navy would also engage with the Japanese coast guard for a joint military exercise next month off the eastern coast, he added.

    Earlier, he along with Puducherry lt governor Virendra Khataria reviewed various demonstration activities by seven naval ships — INS Shivalik, INS Satpura, INS Ranvijay, INS Khukri, INS Kulish, INS Khanjar and INS Jalashwa, as part of Navy Day celebrations.

    Slithering by marine commandos on board Navy's chetak helicopters and recently inducted surveillance aircraft P-81 were also part of the demonstration.

    Over 3,000 guests, mostly family members of defence personnel, senior bureaucrats and journalists, also witnessed the four-and-a-half hour long demonstration, which happened some 25 nautical miles off Chennai coast.

  2. #137
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    US Air Force Is Redrawing Its Pacific-War Playbook for China

    New Pacific Air Forces chief wants deeper cooperation with allied militaries — and better drills for when comms go down.

    If the United States has to go to war with China, its top Air Force general in the Pacific region wants allies more tightly woven into the battle plans — and ready to execute even when communications go down.

    So Gen. Charles Brown is laying out new tactics and concepts of operations to be practiced in updated drills and wargames, the commander of Pacific Air Forces said Monday. Those drills might include fewer aircraft and people than has become customary — but that’s also part of the point.

    “How do we move small packages around pretty quickly to complicate things for our adversary,” Brown told reporters at the Pentagon. “[T]hen also how to operate in a contested environment, because I can’t guarantee that my [communications] will be up the entire time. So how do folks actually, don’t wait for direction, they get enough direction early enough from me so that they can actually go execute.”

    Brown, who has been the Air Force’s top general in the Pacific for about four months, is working to “operationalize” a classified Pacific Air Forces strategy put together by his predecessor, Gen. Terrence O’Shaughnessy, now the commander of U.S. Northern Command.

    “When we look at our pacing threat of China, we got to think differently about how we do things,” Brown said. “We can’t continue to do things we’ve already done. It’s really looking at new operational concepts, thinking outside the box a bit more.”

    Brown talked at length about working more with allies in the Pacific. The U.S. Marine Corps has based new F-35 Joint Strike Fighters in Japan. Japan, South Korea and Australia are buying F-35s, and Singapore is also interested.

    It’s a change from the way the Air Force has generally trained with its Pacific allies.

    “Some of the exercises we have, it’s the same exercise we’ve been doing for the past X number of years,” Brown said. “It’s really, ‘How do you take that exercise to the next level or focus on certain aspects that are going to make us more capable together?’”

    Brown said he would like to beef up stocks of long-range cruise missiles in the Pacific, including the extended-range version of the Joint-Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile, or JASSM-ER, and Long-Range Anti-Ship Missile, or LRASM, two Lockheed Martin-made weapons with ranges of hundreds of miles. In the longer term, he wants hypersonic weapons.

    “Standoff weapons are always a plus because it decreases risk for our aircrews,” he said.

    The general compared the surface-to-air missile situation on China’s artificial islands as similar to that in Syria.

    “[T]here’s a difference between capability and intent,” he said. “There may be capability to put things there, but the intent to actually use it to start a conflict is a different aspect.”

    Brown spent a year as the commander of air forces in the Middle East, overseeing the bombing campaign against Islamic State militants in Iraq and Syria for parts of 2015 and 2016. He then spent two years as the deputy commander of U.S. Central Command.

    “Pretty capable SAM systems in Syria, but there wasn’t intent to use those against the coalition,” he said. “I would say the same thing in this case right now in the South China Sea.”

    So far, Brown said, China has not been targeting U.S. warplanes with those missiles. “I haven’t seen anything that’s been provocative to speak of in the air,” he said.

    “If they arm those weapons, then we’re in a little bit different ballgame,” the general said. “The way I look at it right now: we can fly there.”

    But the general warned that American planes would defend themselves. “If the tensions go up, then we’re going to defend ourselves and we have an inherent right of self-defense,” he said.

    Brown noted the Chinese military’s intercepts of American intelligence aircraft, which he described as “sporadic.”. Asked whether any of those recent intercepts have been unsafe, he said, “Not necessarily. There’s some that we characterize maybe a little bit unprofessional — a little more aggressive than others…By and large, they’ve been safe and professional.”
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  3. #138
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Strings of Pearls is real. Get used to that.
    Somebody asked me about this recently and my reply is for now its a hoax. Entire premise is based off hypotheticals from the future.

    Today, how many of these so called pearls does China control ? not a single one

    How many defended by the PLA. What power projection capabilities are present at these pearls ?

    Other than that one base in Djibouti which has a garrison stationed none of the others has any PLA presence.

    What you have is refuelling stations, places to stop in. Not protected by the PLA.

    Instead, these places are protected (armed protection btw) by de-mobilised PLA soldiers, or officers of the public security bureau which is their police or demobilised officials of the ministry of state security as part of overseas security group in the various companies doing BRI.

    In other words nothing offensive is present at these pearls. All defensive and its mercs doing the protecting. Mercs with connections to the PLA does not mean PLA.

    PLA downsized by 300k recently, so those ex-mil guys are part of these security firms. And some of them are even being trained by Blackwater and another Brit security company.

    Yeah, Gwadar is tipped to become their second base but keep in mind both Djibouti & Gwadar are a long way off from China : )
    Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Dec 18, at 15:55.

  4. #139
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Somebody asked me about this recently and my reply is for now its a hoax. Entire premise is based off hypotheticals from the future.

    Today, how many of these so called pearls does China control ? not a single one

    How many defended by the PLA. What power projection capabilities are present at these pearls ?

    Other than that one base in Djibouti which has a garrison stationed none of the others has any PLA presence.

    What you have is refuelling stations, places to stop in. Not protected by the PLA.

    Instead, these places are protected (armed protection btw) by de-mobilised PLA soldiers, or officers of the public security bureau which is their police or demobilised officials of the ministry of state security as part of overseas security group in the various companies doing BRI.

    In other words nothing offensive is present at these pearls. All defensive and its mercs doing the protecting. Mercs with connections to the PLA does not mean PLA.

    PLA downsized by 300k recently, so those ex-mil guys are part of these security firms. And some of them are even being trained by Blackwater and another Brit security company.

    Yeah, Gwadar is tipped to become their second base but keep in mind both Djibouti & Gwadar are a long way off from China : )
    Another 10 years, and your scrutiny of Chinese interference & activities wouldn't be so defensive. Capabilities alone isn't enough to judge what the Chinese are upto. Alongwith rising capabilities, it's the intent that makes one worried. Many are confused, but most can see through Chinese deceptions.

    Navy looking at inducting 56 warships and submarines: Admiral Lanba

    The increasing pivot towards American weapons and systems in Indian arsenal, and strategic co-operation in various fields is testament that things are shaping up. China is an immediate threat to Indian sovereignty and in the IOR. India is rising peacefully to contain China.
    Last edited by Oracle; 16 Dec 18, at 06:37.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  5. #140
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Another 10 years, and your scrutiny of Chinese interference & activities wouldn't be so defensive. Capabilities alone isn't enough to judge what the Chinese are upto. Alongwith rising capabilities, it's the intent that makes one worried. Many are confused, but most can see through Chinese deceptions.

    Navy looking at inducting 56 warships and submarines: Admiral Lanba

    The increasing pivot towards American weapons and systems in Indian arsenal, and strategic co-operation in various fields is testament that things are shaping up. China is an immediate threat to Indian sovereignty and in the IOR. India is rising peacefully to contain China.
    Interference & activities where ?

    They are active in many places but the interference is primarily only in the China seas. Am referring to military interference here. Commercial & political interference waxes and wanes as we have seen. Some times China is up other time we are.

    Without capabilities, intent is meaningless. As good as absent.

    Without capabilities what exactly are we countering ?

    The problem with gauging intent is the opacity of the Chinese system in a nutshell. Chinese intent is whatever you want it to be. That isn't a very good basis for planning.

    Their capabilities are rising but unless deployed in a meaningful way amount to nothing more than a commercial relationship.

    The word contain isn't compatible with China. Nobody can contain China. However everybody can balance against China.

    Every time China makes new moves the balance re-configures. This is why capabilities and their presence matters.

    It works in the opposite direction as well, as China gets more powerful it requires domestic support to keep building a coalition that will balance against China.

    Commercial interests are against that. This is where the confusion comes from. Wall st or any big companies do not want a trade war with China.

    The US & China are so interdependent economically that a decoupling will be very expensive if done short term. Longer term is less painful.

    Same is the case with commercial interest in other countries. The domestic China lobby. The Aussies are one of few in the region that actually have a trade surplus with China.

    Economic relations alone cannot prevent a conflict but they can delay it. Given the numbers today are orders of magnitude higher than they were at the eve of WW1 further augmented by networking.

    So what is to be done. Commit and stick to 2% GDP for defense if not more. Keep on networking and rallying interested parties. This way we are covered for any contingency.

    The China threat is kept ambigious as clarity here will only turn into a self fulfilling prophecy sooner than anybody wants.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 17 Dec 18, at 15:27.

  6. #141
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Listen to the admiral as to how India is taking care of its backyard

    Collusion of Paks with China means India's space to manouver in the Indian Ocean shrinks as we don't know where they are or they may be where we don't expect them.

    So the decision was taken to monitor the whole region. In concert with 28 others nations we have a fusion center IONS that tracks everything passing through.

    The navy has decided it will do mission based deployment which means we cover all the choke points, Gulf of Aden, straits of Hormuz, Malacca, Lombok & Sunda.

    24 x 7 we have either a surface ship, bird or sub at either of those places

    Logistics agreements with France for Reunion, Oman at Duqum, Indonesia at Sabang, the US with some more coming from the African east coast means we're never too far to refuel.

    This means the other services can also operate wherever our navy is and our navy covers a very wide space
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Dec 18, at 23:13.

  7. #142
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Last edited by Double Edge; 29 Dec 18, at 04:17.

  8. #143
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    Assuming the RN has the money to do any of that, of course.

  9. #144
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    ‘China, China, China’: Trump’s new Pentagon chief Patrick Shanahan sets US defence priorities | SCMP | Jan 03 2019

    Did someone say China ?




    China not so happy

    China should expect more US provocations | GT | Jan 03 2018

    China should carry out more maritime combat exercises with live ammunition, especially training to strike aircraft carriers. There is no need to worry that doing so would make Washington unhappy. Making them concerned is the whole point of the exercise.

  10. #145
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    Honestly, given Shanahan and Trump's shared interests on 'cost cutting' program costs and that Space Force boondoggle, I'd be more worried about Shananhan turning out to be the 3rd reincarnation of Robert McNamara.

  11. #146
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Right, its a load of hot air. Am starting to believe the only place Trump will send American troops is HOME : )

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