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Thread: Muscovite Hybrid War on the West

  1. #16
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    The media has recently picked up on the 'Italian connection', which has long been known of in some circles but rarely spoken of. So some may know about Matteo Salvini, the current deputy PM of Italy and leader of the Lega Nord and his right wing anti immigration, anti 'globalist', anti EU views. Fine, he is welcome to his views. Some of his migration policies I might even support were I an Italian if he were not a traitor.

    So it turned out that they were in cahoots with Muscovite dirty money and aligned with the Muscovite purpose to undermine European unity all along - well some knew that long before but it was hardly mentioned.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...l-deal-meeting (It is too long to put here but worth reading if you wish to understand the war we engaged in).

    Basically they are talking corruption of around $65m syphoned from a Muscovite oil company to Eni, an Italian state owned company that Salvini, who also serves as interior minister has supervision of. In other word Moscow funding them via the back door to stir up trouble.

    Seems they may have bought or been in cahoots far deeper than this though. First came the arrest of Vitaliy Markiv who was merely visiting Italy in 2017 on charges of murder of an Italian journalist who was inside occupied Slovyansk in 2014 and was hit by mortar fire. Last week Markiv was sentenced to 24yrs in Italy not withstanding that he was a soldier at the time, nor in command or attached even to the particular unit that fired the mortar but because he allegedly spoke to another Italian journalist later.

    Next the truth becomes clearer:

    "Anti-terrorism police in northern Italy have seized an air-to-air missile and other sophisticated weapons during raids on far-right extremist groups.

    Three people were arrested, two of them near Forli airport. Neo-Nazi propaganda was also seized.

    The raids were part of an investigation into Italian far-right involvement in the conflict in eastern Ukraine, the Turin police said.

    The missile originated from the Qatari armed forces, the police said.
    Image copyright EPA
    Image caption The missile is reported to be in good condition for combat use

    The Turin special police force, called Digos, led the operations, assisted by police in Milan, Varese, Forli and Novara.

    Italian media named those arrested as Fabio Del Bergiolo, 50, an Italian ex-customs officer and far-right Forza Nuova party activist; Alessandro Monti, 42, a Swiss national; and Fabio Bernardi, 51, also Italian.

    Initially, on 15 July, the police said the arrests were part of an investigation, started about a year ago, into far-right groups "who have fought in Ukraine's Donbass region against the separatists".

    But the latest police statement did not mention groups fighting the pro-Russian separatists, referring only to an investigation into Italian extremists who had "taken part in the armed conflict in Ukraine's Donbass region". The police did not make it clear which side the Italians were on in this case.

    The missile appears to be a French-made Matra Super 530 F.

    "During the operation, an air-to-air missile in perfect working order and used by the Qatari army was seized," police said in a statement.

    Separately, a court in Genoa jailed three men on 3 July who were found guilty of fighting alongside the Russian-backed separatists, who control a large swathe of Ukraine's Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
    Image copyright Italian police
    Image caption A big cache of guns and ammunition was seized
    Image copyright AFP
    Image caption Turin police displayed this haul of Nazi memorabilia and weapons

    In the Genoa case, two men - Italian Antonio Cataldo and Albanian-born Olsi Krutani - got terms of two years and eight months. The third, Moldovan citizen Vladimir Vrbitchii, got one year and four months.







    Update 16th July 2019: This story was amended after Italian police dropped a reference to the Italian extremists having fought against the Donbass separatists.

    Really they not were not helping Muscovite fascists.... so they were just sending a whole cache of arms and Nazi insignia to 'friends' in Muscovite occupied Donbass.

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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48987723

    But remember Ukraine has a 'fascist coup' in 2014, I am and my Brother are allegedly 'fascists' for fighting for the country where our ancestral home now comprises in defence of liberty and the aggressor is 'peaceful', 'democratic' and 'just' (right troung?).
    Last edited by snapper; 16 Jul 19, at 20:23.

  2. #17
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    But remember Ukraine has a 'fascist coup' in 2014, I am and my Brother are allegedly 'fascists' for fighting for the country where our ancestral home now comprises in defence of liberty and the aggressor is 'peaceful', 'democratic' and 'just' (right troung?)
    Sigh. Missed the scent of aquvelva from the back of my hand.

    Your brother is like the Drumpf Russian hooker seks tape you claimed to have seen and your claimed ties to polish Intel services and whatnot, not real )))

    Giant larp job.

    To your point, the brigade your made-up brother pretended to fight in is a facist brigade. Plenty of units in the Ukrainian national guard weren't fascist, but you used them in your story to get that rub. The fact that the pro Russian units try to swagger Jack nazis also doesnt change that point.
    Last edited by troung; 17 Jul 19, at 04:55.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  3. #18
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    Really? Legia Nord are in a corruption scheme with a Muscovite oil company and their friends are sending missiles and Nazi paraphernalia to Muscovite occupied Donbass but this is about my Brother - who was alive two days ago when I spoke to him. Who are the fascists? Who is corrupt? All these things you used accuse me even - was not I a 'fascist' at some point because my Brother served with Azov? How corrupt Ukraine was... but oh dear! Here are your favourite corrupt neo Nazi's in Italy and occupied Donbass caught. But my Brother's service 5yrs ago is your problem? Not your principles that denounced him for without even knowing his reasons and - by association almost - accused me of having too. Your concern for my Frater is touching but seems more concerning to you than your former principles.

    Come here to visit; I promise I will not harm you and will give my life if need be to save yours. Just show you a few days as I see it. Visit the front for a few days. Have a vatra (bonfire party), get drunk... we only live once and it would be an experience. I could introduce you to my Brother even! I mean it. You are welcome and doubtless we may disagree but you would be my guest.

  4. #19
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    But my Brother's service 5yrs ago is your problem? Not your principles that denounced him for without even knowing his reasons and - by association almost - accused me of having too. Your concern for my Frater is touching but seems more concerning to you than your former principles
    You made it up in the hope of impressing us all the first time not realizing that at least one person here knew that was a facist unit. You just brought it up again as a call out to me. Dont worry I dont believe your brother was a member of that unit.

    Your imaginary brother, claimed ties to polish intelligence circles, the Trump seks tape (which Mueller failed to get). Come on it's all fake.

    To your rant, Italian fascists supporting Russian fascists doesnt turn a Ukraine fascist unit into a non fascist unit. Hurts Russian state propaganda and exposes fascists in Europe for the awful people that they are,but doesnt change the ideology of a Ukrainian fascist movement that you attempted to impress us all by linking yourself to.

    Still waiting on that Trump seks tape you watched.

    Come here to visit; I promise I will not harm you and will give my life if need be to save yours. Just show you a few days as I see it. Visit the front for a few days. Have a vatra (bonfire party), get drunk... we only live once and it would be an experience. I could introduce you to my Brother even! I mean it. You are welcome and doubtless we may disagree but you would be my guest.
    Ok pnoy

  5. #20
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    I shall pass on your concern to my Brother but I am afraid he is happily (or so) married.

    It is a welcome sign that at long last you acknowledge there are wannabe neo nazi's in the ranks of the aggressor doing their best to corrupt Europe. For that I salute your integrity.

  6. #21
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    I shall pass on your concern to my Brother but I am afraid he is happily (or so) married.

    It is a welcome sign that at long last you acknowledge there are wannabe neo nazi's in the ranks of the aggressor doing their best to corrupt Europe. For that I salute your integrity.

  7. #22
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Still no trump seks tape, no proof you have a brother much less he was in this neo-nazi unit, and no proof of your connection to polish Intel and movers and shakers.

    If you didn't keep walting I wouldn't have to point all of this out. I am sure in a year or so you or a cousin will be a secret commando running black ops and porn collection raids into Belarus....
    Last edited by troung; 18 Jul 19, at 03:33.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  8. #23
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    I never claimed to have seen a sex tape. I saw the transcript of an alleged tape about Trumpkins attempts to build a Turnip Tower in Moscow - an effort he now admits he was pursuing while he was standing as a candidate and claiming he had nothing to do with Muscovy, no business there; just think Putin's a great guy etc while standing.

    Given Trumpkin's record on somewhat dubious Ladies and the fact we know he was offered some 'female company' while in Moscow for the Miss Universe pageant, his incorrect story regarding how long he stayed and the Chekist penchant for 'honey traps' and blackmail - even Trump's bodyguard said the offer of such 'services' was made - I consider it quite possible that the Muscovites have a sex tape. It is not as if Trumpkin is loyal to any Wife or does not have a liking for such dubious company and it would clearly be par for the course to FSB to entrap him in such a way.

    The point is though the Muscovites had him by the short and curlies simply because he was denying having anything to do with them when it was a blatant lie. That compromised him enough perhaps. They knew and he knew they could blow his candidacy out of the water - unless he did as asked such as change the GoP platform relating to Ukraine at the Conference and then trying to get of sanctions. As long as they knew he was 'Trumpnash' ('our Trump') fine, they would help him if they could.

    I am sorry if you do not have siblings or cousins - or children perhaps. That is not my fault and I do not feel obliged to prove the existence of my family to you, nor justify what any of them have done to you.

  9. #24
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    I never claimed to have seen a sex tape. I saw the transcript of an alleged tape about Trumpkins attempts to build a Turnip Tower in Moscow - an effort he now admits he was pursuing while he was standing as a candidate and claiming he had nothing to do with Muscovy, no business there; just think Putin's a great guy etc while standing.

    Given Trumpkin's record on somewhat dubious Ladies and the fact we know he was offered some 'female company' while in Moscow for the Miss Universe pageant, his incorrect story regarding how long he stayed and the Chekist penchant for 'honey traps' and blackmail - even Trump's bodyguard said the offer of such 'services' was made - I consider it quite possible that the Muscovites have a sex tape. It is not as if Trumpkin is loyal to any Wife or does not have a liking for such dubious company and it would clearly be par for the course to FSB to entrap him in such a way.

    The point is though the Muscovites had him by the short and curlies simply because he was denying having anything to do with them when it was a blatant lie. That compromised him enough perhaps. They knew and he knew they could blow his candidacy out of the water - unless he did as asked such as change the GoP platform relating to Ukraine at the Conference and then trying to get of sanctions. As long as they knew he was 'Trumpnash' ('our Trump') fine, they would help him if they could.

    I am sorry if you do not have siblings or cousins - or children perhaps. That is not my fault and I do not feel obliged to prove the existence of my family to you, nor justify what any of them have done to you.

  10. #25
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    am sorry if you do not have siblings or cousins - or children perhaps. That is not my fault and I do not feel obliged to prove the existence of my family to you, nor justify what any of them have done to
    You claim to have a brother who fought as a fascist militiaman against the chekist asiatic Moscow khazar mafia goons, presumably to tie yourself to fighting Russia and showing that you admire said facist brigade. I call bs, provide real proof. Of course you can't because it was just you trying to look big and bad here get some adulation.

    You went from having top secret sources on a drumpf seks tape which you knew about, to maybe in the realm possiblity Trump could have slept with someone somewhere and maybe Russia could have filmed it (pathetic backtrack). Of course you dont have super secret sources or anything past Google.

    I swear you must be posting this from a Moscow basement to make the Ukraine look like a bunch of irritating goofs. Clunky and unnatural uses of words (chekist muscovite tartari mafia), actively complaining about our politics in a divisive manner, picked a nazi brigade that the Russian media savaged to say her brother fought in...
    Last edited by troung; 19 Jul 19, at 21:56.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  11. #26
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    My Brother did serve briefly with Azov in 2014. I do not think they are entirely 'fascist' just as the Sheik Mansoor Battalion was not entirely Moslem or Chechen. He had Polish citizenship at the time as did I but when the enemy invades the country where your home lies what would you do? He is not as 'political' as I and not particularly involved in the Revolution of Dignity as I was as he is more interested in business and I in history. I do not have to prove anything to you - I doubt I could anyway for if I got the details of their serving members at the time with my Brothers name on the list and posted his passport you would doubtless require a gene test to prove that my Brother was my Brother. Your claims of knowing my own family better than I who have known them all my life are ridiculous. I have no reason to believe my Brother is not my Brother - he looks like my Pater. Your absurd claims to know more about him than I are precisely that; absurd.

    Show me where I said I had I sex tape or do not put words into my mouth.

    Neither have I ever said "chekist muscovite tartari mafia" since the Tatar inhabitants of Crimea almost universally oppose the Muscovite occupation of the peninsular, their TV station banned, they are arrested for hanging Tatar flags or meeting etc.

    As for politics I have criticised PiS Governments in Poland that I voted for, Conservative Governments in England that I voted for too. I am not really a Poroshenko fan and have criticised him before but voted for him rather than Zelensky in the run off. I would have voted for Macron in France if I could have because he is not Le Pen and likewise for Clinton in 2016 in the US because she is not Trumpkin.

    And if you think I am causing division in the US by criticising a criminal Trumpkin you're really messed up. Your President is doing that himself.
    Last edited by snapper; 24 Jul 19, at 19:13.

  12. #27
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    My Brother did serve briefly with Azov in 2014. I do not think they are entirely 'fascist' just as the Sheik Mansoor Battalion was not entirely Moslem or Chechen. He had Polish citizenship at the time as did I but when the enemy invades the country where your home lies what would you do? He is not as 'political' as I and not particularly involved in the Revolution of Dignity as I was as he is more interested in business and I in history. I do not have to prove anything to you - I doubt I could anyway for if I got the details of their serving members at the time with my Brothers name on the list and posted his passport you would doubtless require a gene test to prove that my Brother was my Brother. Your claims of knowing my own family better than I who have known them all my life are ridiculous. I have no reason to believe my Brother is not my Brother - he looks like my Pater. Your absurd claims to know more about him than I are precisely that; absurd.
    They are a straight up fascist battalion, use fascist symbols, been on the receiving end of negative stories in the European media, and have been on the receiving end of Russian propaganda to tar the rest of the militias. You knew who were picking when you made this story up. Out of all the units you could have walted with, you picked the Nazis for your made up brother to serve with.

    A halfway sensible pro-Ukraine propagandist would have picked a different unit or left it at vague militia ties. And you keep bringing it up.

    Neither have I ever said "chekist muscovite tartari mafia" since the Tatar inhabitants of Crimea almost universally oppose the Muscovite occupation of the peninsular, their TV station banned, they are arrested for hanging Tatar flags or meeting etc.
    Mocking your silly rather unnatural use of the English language (Putin-chekist-mafia-thugs-moscovite-cleaning-ladies / khazar-nail-girl-kazakh-seksi-party).

    And if you think I am causing division in the US by criticising a criminal Trumpkin you're really messed up. Your President is doing that himself.
    You a foreigner with a brother who you claim fought for Ukrainian Nazis, claiming to be from a nation which isn't an ally but is begging for American assistance, are on an American forum screaming that our President is a Russian agent, use odd goofy language, with Russian seks tapes, and calling the man about half the public voted for a traitor. Seeing as huge numbers of American voters couldn't give a damn what a foreigner thinks about their vote, it sounds like you a foreigner are doing things to make people see the Ukraine (which you claim to have intel and high level connections with) a nation full of whiny nazis who bitch about American politics and hate the decisions that half the public made. This from someone whose nation goes around cup in hand, a nation which doesn't have an collective opinion which matters.

    Have someone waltz in claiming to be from a corrupt developing country that is begging for assistance, claiming to have ties to the ruling structures there, a brother who is a Nazi, and then making the goofy statements you do; the response from many red-blooded folks would be not only F-said foreigner, F-the horse they rode in on, f-said developing world corrupt state they are claiming to rep. See Pnoy two weeks ago.

    You sound like work for one of these Russian troll farms, you are foreign, have divisive views on our politics, claimed Nazish ties which make the Ukraine look bad, hoping to sow discontent, trying to turn American voters against the country you claim all these intel connections with by creating a backlash. I assumed you were just a walt (and just not terribly sophisticated and unable see through DNC/Rf BS) and were just making stuff up to look important in a nation most people can't find on a map (easy to lie about stuff) but when you set it out you do sound like you work for a foreign troll farm or are just the worst propagandist ever to ply their trade on WAB.

    ====
    The Bishek-vassal-rocket-walt-mafia makes me want to be able to pull the lever for the Orange-Kaiser-Trumpkin-stable-genius-seks-machine every day.
    Last edited by troung; 25 Jul 19, at 02:56.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    They are a straight up fascist battalion, use fascist symbols, been on the receiving end of negative stories in the European media, and have been on the receiving end of Russian propaganda to tar the rest of the militias. You knew who were picking when you made this story up. Out of all the units you could have walted with, you picked the Nazis for your made up brother to serve with.
    That's a little like saying that every German soldier of WW2 was a fascist which would be just wrong. Would all those who served in Dnipro 1 and 2 necessarily be Kolomoisky loyalists or Jewish because Kolomoisky is Jewish? Not at all - just people trying to protect their country. I have explained before why my Brother chose a volunteer battalion to serve in.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    A halfway sensible pro-Ukraine propagandist would have picked a different unit or left it at vague militia ties. And you keep bringing it up.
    Unlike you I am not a 'propagandist' which is why I do not have a problem criticising Parties or Governments I may have voted for.



    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Mocking your silly rather unnatural use of the English language (Putin-chekist-mafia-thugs-moscovite-cleaning-ladies / khazar-nail-girl-kazakh-seksi-party).

    You a foreigner with a brother who you claim fought for Ukrainian Nazis, claiming to be from a nation which isn't an ally but is begging for American assistance, are on an American forum screaming that our President is a Russian agent, use odd goofy language, with Russian seks tapes, and calling the man about half the public voted for a traitor. Seeing as huge numbers of American voters couldn't give a damn what a foreigner thinks about their vote, it sounds like you a foreigner are doing things to make people see the Ukraine (which you claim to have intel and high level connections with) a nation full of whiny nazis who bitch about American politics and hate the decisions that half the public made. This from someone whose nation goes around cup in hand, a nation which doesn't have an collective opinion which matters.

    Have someone waltz in claiming to be from a corrupt developing country that is begging for assistance, claiming to have ties to the ruling structures there, a brother who is a Nazi, and then making the goofy statements you do; the response from many red-blooded folks would be not only F-said foreigner, F-the horse they rode in on, f-said developing world corrupt state they are claiming to rep. See Pnoy two weeks ago.

    You sound like work for one of these Russian troll farms, you are foreign, have divisive views on our politics, claimed Nazish ties which make the Ukraine look bad, hoping to sow discontent, trying to turn American voters against the country you claim all these intel connections with by creating a backlash. I assumed you were just a walt (and just not terribly sophisticated and unable see through DNC/Rf BS) and were just making stuff up to look important in a nation most people can't find on a map (easy to lie about stuff) but when you set it out you do sound like you work for a foreign troll farm or are just the worst propagandist ever to ply their trade on WAB.
    I hope you feel better after that. Not sure what it actually means personally. Is the Muscovite regime criminal? Murdering innocent civilians from Salisbury to Donbass and Syria are war crimes. Invading your neighbour, stealing property and land, shooting down a civilian airliner, stealing from the DNC to interfere in US elections... more crimes. Seizing Ukrainian sailors and civilians in shared waters - from Belarus even in one case - and trying them as Muscovites... they are not 'political prisoners' even as they are Ukrainians; they are hostages. So criminal their actions are.

    Is Putin a chekist? He ran the FSB which claims to be the direct descendant of the Cheka, of Felix Dzerzhinsky (who sadly was Polish). They are proud of it and hero worship Stalin - a mass murderer.

    Are they corrupt? Yep, as even this Italian connection shows. Ask Bill Browder. Putin is reckoned to be the richest man in the world which is why little oddities like his millionaire cellist friend crop up in the Panama Papers.
    So calling them a criminal chekist mafia is just accurate. I am sorry if you find it 'clunky' but I am not a 'propagandist', just call a pig a pig.

    "a nation full of whiny nazis " Not one far right wing Party in Ukraine got the 5%+ of votes required to have MPs in the new Rada. Zelensky is Jewish by ancestry. Contrast that with France where Putin funds the Front National or Italy where he was clearly trying to support the Legia Nord. Of course if were 'nazis' like his friends in France and Italy or even just racists like his friend in White House it would not matter. So on the one hand Ukraine is 'full of fascists' who can't get one MP elected and on the other extreme right wing Parties elsewhere are worthy of funding, legally and illegally. If you can happily sit with such a contradiction and call Ukraine "a nation of nazis" you're a total hypocrite.

  14. #29
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    dble oops.

  15. #30
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    That's a little like saying that every German soldier of WW2 was a fascist which would be just wrong. Would all those who served in Dnipro 1 and 2 necessarily be Kolomoisky loyalists or Jewish because Kolomoisky is Jewish? Not at all - just people trying to protect their country. I have explained before why my Brother chose a volunteer battalion to serve in.
    If someone volunteered to fight in a SS regiment folks would have no problem calling them a nazi. You claim your imaginary brother fought in a fascist battalion. That makes him a fascist, no question on the matter. You managed to pick an ideology that people in the US have no time for.
    calling them a criminal chekist mafia is just accurate. I am sorry if you find it 'clunky' but I am not a 'propagandist', just call a pig a pig.
    A bizarre use of words a foreign propagandist would have selected for them to virtue signal with their bosses. It is something one expects with someone copying and pasting approved terms into a browser.


    nation full of whiny nazis " Not one far right wing Party in Ukraine
    As said your crappy propagandist stick. you make sure you let people know your brother is a nazi and you whine constantly about American politics in a way to tick off people who voted in our Red Emperor; whiny and nazi. Clunky use of English, nazi ties, generally whiny and unsophisticated, and you claim ties with the government there. You have suggested you have government relationships and here you are putting forward the Ukraine as causal fascists who hate the current US government and the folks who voted it in.

    As I said I just lean to you being a walt with no family that served in a militia, no ties to any military or Intel circles, and just too unsophisticated to see through DNC or RF propaganda.
    Last edited by troung; 25 Jul 19, at 17:24.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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